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United Fires Initial PR Burst In DEN Dogfight!  
User currently offlineFLY777UAL From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4512 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 8 months 21 hours ago) and read 10858 times:

The battle has begun.
United Airlines today will begin blanketing Denver with an advertising campaign aimed directly at its newest competitor, Southwest Airlines.

The first phase of United's campaign includes print ads pointing out Southwest's limited nonstop service out of Denver International Airport.

Southwest today starts flying 13 daily flights to three cities, and it is expected to announce service this morning to two more. United, the dominant carrier at DIA, has 400 daily departures from Denver to dozens of cities through its mainline, Ted and United Express service.


link: http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm.../0,2777,DRMN_23916_4358425,00.html

Funny ad to be honest...

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L

192 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 20 hours ago) and read 10807 times:

The gloves are on...ding ding...round one...let the fight begin....my monies on UA!  twocents 

User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1555 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 19 hours ago) and read 10757 times:

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 1):
my monies on UA!

Mine is on Frontier.  Smile



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7263 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 19 hours ago) and read 10743 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Although a competitor, F9 outta DEN is laughable...who was on the inaugural of WN to DEN?

Tell us how it went!!!  Smile


User currently offlineMoparman From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 411 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 18 hours ago) and read 10683 times:

For the life of me: Southwest is laughable. Which other airline has a television show highlighting their total incompetance? Although United isn't my favorite carrier - I would rather take Greyhound than fly with Southwest.


"Harming a patient is unethical, but I can inflict as much pain as I like" Dr. Phlox
User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 18 hours ago) and read 10659 times:

>> I would rather take Greyhound than fly with Southwest.<<

And I would not be a bit surprised if the folks at Southwest Airlines Co would prefer that you take Greyhound as well.

On the subject of WN in Denver, the real shot fired is the announcement of service to Salt Lake City.

Right now Frontier's walk up fare across there is $249.

It is 391 miles. Roughly 1:25 mins. Southwest will price their walk up fare at $119 or so.

One place nobody has ever been able to compete effectively with Southwest has been in the 1 to 2 hr business type flights. Dallas to Houston. L.A. to Oakland. Phoenix to Las Vegas.

Look at market share dominance by WN in markets of that type.

Slashing the going rate between DEN and SLC by half will wake up the market...instead of 780 psgrs per day it may very well grow to 2000 psgrs per day.

And contrary to popular misconception, many, many businessmen will opt to fly Southwest---and that is especially true on short hops like that. Business travelers want frequency, they want on-time, and the FF program where a handful of DEN-SLC round trips gets you a free ticket anyplace WN goes is a decent deal.

But go ahead and underestimate Southwest in Denver. Other airlines have done so over the years, generally at their own peril.


User currently offlineA2 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 39 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 18 hours ago) and read 10638 times:

I must say it is one of the funniest ad I've seen in a long, long, long time.

Good job UA


User currently offlineStlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9345 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 18 hours ago) and read 10613 times:

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 5):
Slashing the going rate between DEN and SLC by half will wake up the market...instead of 780 psgrs per day it may very well grow to 2000 psgrs per day.

159%? come on now.

Quoting FLY777UAL (Thread starter):
Funny ad to be honest...

That is a great advertisement. Absolutely great.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4263 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 18 hours ago) and read 10603 times:

Quoting Moparman (Reply 7):
TxAgKuwait:

"And I would not be a bit surprised if the folks at Southwest Airlines Co would prefer that you take Greyhound as well."

Considering what I spend on travel, as I fly between 70000 - 90000 miles per year, and the vast majority of it for pleasure rather than business; much of it in business or 1st class. Considering that I have been either a Gold or Platinum Elite on Continental for the past 5 years, a cheezy airline like Southwest would do well to get passengers like myself to come and fly with them. Personally I refuse to spend my money with them. With the above in mind, I think your statement is inapproprate. There are some people who will still spend a little more for quality, instead of with the lowest common denominator of air travel.

Why should I when you can get better service on every other airline flying; or Greyhound for that matter?

I am obviously not a big Southwest cheerleader. That being said, service on WN is about as good as most legacy carriers. They don't block the aisle with beverage carts, and they don't charge for their snack boxes on longer flights, which I cannot say about some legacy carriers. They also have all leather seats in their planes. They do things differently than most other airlines, there is no question about that. They have an on time record comporable to anyone else. They are pretty high in the customer satisfaction department from what I understand, and they have very high employee morale. Not to mention they have the strictest pilot hiring requirements in Industry (you have to have a 737 type rating before you get hired for example.) Yes they do a lot of goofy things that most other companies wouldn't do, but coloring outside the lines is not necessarily a bad thing.

And your comment on Airline showing how incompetent they are. 95 percent of all the scenes on that show are idiotic passengers more than the incompetent airline. I mean, things like being in a bar drinking while boarding your flight, and you don't respond to announcements, then when they give up your seat, you get mad when you should have been at the gate on the plane in the first place. And some nut leaving security on a 30 minute layover to smoke, then naturally got held up in the tsa line coming back and missing his flight. Can you blame any airline for this? No.


User currently offlineMoparman From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 411 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 17 hours ago) and read 10587 times:

Apodino,

I am not saying anything negative about the qualifactions of Southwest Airlines flight crews. Also, I am certainly not defending stupid and "idiotic" passengers. When I travel, I make it a point to be at the airport 2 hours before departure - just in case. Most of the time, I end up sitting around... sometime I end up in the airport bar; but I always make sure I'm at the gate in plenty of time. Do I blame Southwest for the passengers? No. Do I believe that they attract a, well, more idiotic crowd? yes - through their generally lower prices. Be that as it may.

What I have said is entirely personal opinion. I vote with my wallet, and I will not support Southwest Airlines. Any airline that oversells on occasion; Southwest seems to do it every flight. I travel through Sacramento regularly (normally on CO or DL), and I hear Southwest's announcements... I cannot remember a single time I was there that they did not make overbooking announcements. That is a sign of total incompetence in my view.

While I argree with you about thinking outside of the box; sometimes staying inside the box is a good thing as well. My view of Southwest is that they are the lowest denomination in air travel today.



"Harming a patient is unethical, but I can inflict as much pain as I like" Dr. Phlox
User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2849 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 17 hours ago) and read 10552 times:

I agree, the add is funny but I don't see how it's going to affect either airline. Some people don't care about service and what not, they just want to fly from one place to another by purchasing THE cheapest ticket they could find. Whether it's AA, DL, WN, UA or CO.. they just don't care!
You guys keep forgetting one thing (and I wrote this in another thread today): We as a.netters have our preferences when it comes to flying. We care about the aircraft, the manufacturer, the service, the airline... Etc.... Having said all that, you have to keep in mind that other people do really care.


User currently offlineMidnightMike From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 2892 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 16 hours ago) and read 10480 times:

First rule of advertisement, you avoid mentioning your competitor as much as possible, as even mentioning your competitor, you are giving it attention.....

United should focus on its strengths, focusing on the supposed weakness of Southwest, is just childish.



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineJustapassenger From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 16 hours ago) and read 10474 times:

I am not aware of all of Frontier’s PR efforts to counter WN’s entry into the Denver market, but at 5:45 CST today I did hear the CEO of Frontier being interviewed on CNBC about Southwest starting service at Denver today. I was not impressed.

He said that they had been expecting Southwest to enter Denver and fill the geographic hole in WN’s service map and that he expected WN to expand their service at DIA.

All he said as far as Frontier’s response to WN’s entry into the Denver market was that Frontier was talking to its passengers and responding to their needs and desires. It seemed like a really weak response. Why didn’t he say something much more positive to promote Frontier? Why didn’t he say: 1) We have a superior product, 2) We are prepared to counter WN’s new service, 3) There’s room for both of us on those routes. Why didn’t he give us more hope that they could deal with WN’s new service?

I certainly hope that F-9 has a more effective PR program going on somewhere else.


User currently onlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5073 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 16 hours ago) and read 10470 times:

Let's see...United spends thousands of dollars on advertising, Southwest's new service gets a ton of free publicity.

Now who's laughing?



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 16 hours ago) and read 10450 times:

I still think Frontier has more to lose with Southwest coming to Denver. As United well knows, it has a large national and international network and a competitive products for the business and leisure traveler with which to keep and grow its customer base. Frontier, well, uh, it has pretty planes, but competes mostly in the same demographic as does Southwest.

User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 15 hours ago) and read 10356 times:

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 17):
I still think Frontier has more to lose with Southwest coming to Denver. As United well knows, it has a large national and international network and a competitive products for the business and leisure traveler with which to keep and grow its customer base. Frontier, well, uh, it has pretty planes, but competes mostly in the same demographic as does Southwest.

Without a shadow of doubt, Frontier is going to get slaughterd here if it does not get its act together and fight the fight. No way will UA allow WN to simply walk over them at DEN, this is a major hub, with major feed, O&D, so I think they will do fine on competing routes.


User currently offlineBCALdavid From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 15 hours ago) and read 10306 times:

Well done TxAgKuwait, I agree with you whole heartedly! I fly between the UK and the US, around europe plus domestic US service frequently, usually in business class. I don't consider myself a cut above the rest but I certainly do not consider myself "the lowest common denominator" for preferring to choose Southwest over legacy carriers for domestic US service. They have proved to be as good as legacy carriers in my opinion. They don't compare well to good european carriers within europe however, and neither do easyJet and Ryanair, our "Southwest euro-style" carriers, who I choose not to fly with!

User currently offlineBoeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 10273 times:

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 5):
Slashing the going rate between DEN and SLC by half will wake up the market...instead of 780 psgrs per day it may very well grow to 2000 psgrs per day.

For this to be true, you have to assume there are 2,000 passengers who will fly that route each day. SLC-DEN-SLC isn't the California Corridor and UA, F9 and DL aren't going to sit on their hands.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 10269 times:

Quoting Apodino (Reply 9):
They have an on time record comporable to anyone else.

And they better... because when they blow your connection you're in alot worse shape than if any legacy with a boatload of interline agreements blows your connection. Not to mention compared to Continental who'll bend over backwards and do cartwheels for blown connections... even if it's the fault of bad wx.


User currently offlineSBN580 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 401 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 10227 times:

Quoting FLY777UAL (Thread starter):
The first phase of United's campaign includes print ads pointing out Southwest's limited nonstop service out of Denver International Airport.

It's a good ad, but I think United is showing quantity over quality, when quality should be just as important.

Quoting Moparman (Reply 4):
For the life of me: Southwest is laughable. Which other airline has a television show highlighting their total incompetance? Although United isn't my favorite carrier - I would rather take Greyhound than fly with Southwest.

To be fair to WN, the show highlights employee dilemmas set up by ignoramous passengers more than anything else. There are those for any airline. I recall reading that Southwest was the only airline to volunteer for the show. A risky PR move, but all in all it's free advertising. And it's employees are shown solving problems no matter how wacky, so the PR is usually to their advantage. As for Southwest and Greyhound, well Southwest could well be called "Air Greyhound."

Quoting FLY777UAL (Thread starter):
Not to mention they have the strictest pilot hiring requirements in Industry (you have to have a 737 type rating before you get hired for example.)

Kind of makes sense since that is the only type they fly.

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 13):
Some people don't care about service and what not, they just want to fly from one place to another by purchasing THE cheapest ticket they could find.

Such is the state of our society in general. Low price over quality and wanting everything for nothing.



North Central: Good People Made Their Airline Great! FLY MD-90 POWER! Keep 'em Flying DELTA Family!
User currently offlineIluv2pilot From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 10202 times:

Boy all you WN bashers are right on the mark!!!

Let's face it, WN is hurting badly and just got out of bankruptcy court. They are putting planes in the desert, laying off employees, and shrinking their payroll to stay alive.

DUh!!!!!! That's UA not WN.....

You don't have to like their product, their advertising, or their service, but to call them laughable is ignorant and shows a lack of understanding of how well they perform and why.

I'm Platinum on Delta and CO and elite on Air Tran and I avoid WN when possible, but when I have to I do and generally find it ok.

From a business perspective their doing fine and their smart and they will hurt UA in DEN.

The ad is funny but it was stupid to mention WN as now folks who weren't aware their flying there will.


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4110 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 10176 times:

Quoting Moparman (Reply 4):
For the life of me: Southwest is laughable. Which other airline has a television show highlighting their total incompetance? Although United isn't my favorite carrier - I would rather take Greyhound than fly with Southwest.

To be much more accurate, the show points out the complete idiocy of the passengers ('Why CAN'T my poodle have its own seat???') than of the airline.

Southwest Airlines has bright people and makes a profit; United Airlines has...well...777s.

Chris in NH


User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 14 hours ago) and read 10102 times:

>>For this to be true, you have to assume there are 2,000 passengers who will fly that route each day. SLC-DEN-SLC isn't the California Corridor and UA, F9 and DL aren't going to sit on their hands.<<

Well, there are close to 2000 psgrs a day right now flying the 600 or so miles between Denver and Phoenix at an average fare basically the same as the 780 psgrs flying each day between Denver and Salt Lake despite the latter only being 390 miles.

And I am well aware that SLC-DEN is not the California corridor. Between the LA area and the Bay area you are talking close to 18,000 passengers a day. I would never suggest that SLC-DEN would do that kind of volume.

And no, I do not for an instant think that the other airlines will sit on their hands. They will cut their price and market aggressively. The problem is, they will cut their prices and sit there and bleed and then start to wonder if chasing short haul is really worth their trouble.

You need only look at history to see countless instances of UA doing this in California....back before Southwest inherited PSA's position in the marketplace. Braniff and American have played this game in Texas a few times. USAirways learned some harsh lessons in and out of BWI.

Short haul is what separates the men from the boys in the airline industry. You can sit there and say that United et al have lowered their CASMs thru the bankruptcy courts, but you still have to look at their average stage length.

If UA is reporting a CASM of 10.0 ...... you can figure that's on a healthy stage length which includes all those nonstops to foreign countries -- Japan, Germany, etc etc. Those long hauls are pretty cheap flying. What's expensive, on a per mile basis, for the legacy carriers are the short hauls.

So that trip in between SLC and DEN at 390 miles probably doesn't give UA a CASM of a dime. It's probably 14 or 15 cents.

You are not going to enjoy competing against WN over the long term for short haul passengers when you are getting a 12 cent yield. Sooner or later somebody is going to blink. History suggests it won't be WN.

But, 7e7, when you state that UA, F9, DL etc etc will not sit on their hands and watch this happen, you are right. Their fare cuts and marketing efforts will do nothing except expand the market. They'll expand it right up close to that 2000 number I mentioned. Bank on it.


User currently offlineTbird From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 851 posts, RR: 19
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 13 hours ago) and read 10042 times:

Its a funny ad but I'd fly Southwest over UAL. Its just amazing how many people keep bashing Southwest over and over again. One has to wonder if success breeds jealously? I love reading everything Southwest does wrong, from not bending over backwards to help customers, to overbooking there flights, to not having enough connecting time. Here's a newsflash all airlines overbook, all of the legacy carriers have very tight connection times (AA's min is 20 mins), and you want to talk about customer service? WN's customer service is ranked higher then all of the legacy carriers.

With all that Southwest does wrong they seem to be making a ton of money. Enough money to buy new planes, build new terminals, invest in other airlines (ATA), increase frequency over and over again, add cities in the legacy carriers backyard, and stay out of Chap 11. I like to be on a winning team and it sure sounds like Southwest is that winning team.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21511 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 13 hours ago) and read 10030 times:

Quoting Justapassenger (Reply 12):
1) We have a superior product, 2) We are prepared to counter WN’s new service, 3) There’s room for both of us on those routes.

I think he said 3 just by his "expectations," that 1 is already obvious to their customers, and 2 would be suicide.

Quoting SBN580 (Reply 19):
To be fair to WN, the show highlights employee dilemmas set up by ignoramous passengers more than anything else.

But as others have pointed out, the airline attracts those people like flies. Anyone willing to wait in the long lines at LAX to avoid a connection elsewhere that would net the same travel times is not the star of the math team, in my opinion.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
25 Apodino : Personally, I would put NW, FL, NK, and PA on that group way before I would put WN on the list.
26 Incitatus : Really? The very few times I boarded Southwest I was under the impression that them and Greyhound cater exactly to the same crowd.
27 777Purser : As I am not informed on inflight procedures on Southwest, please explain to me how the beverage service is delivered. Also, when you say they don't c
28 TxAgKuwait : Southwest's beverage service: Once the preflight safety announcements have been completed, the FAs will go thru the cabin and collect drink orders fro
29 BHMNONREV : If all things were equal, I believe Frontier has the better product. But when they are forced to drop their walk-up fare on DEN-SLC to match WN, then
30 Apodino : The way it works is they come down the aisle, take your drink order and write it on a slip of paper. They go to the galley, fill the drinks, and brin
31 Tbird : I'm sure the thousands of business travelers who board Southwest flights every day and the hard working families who fly Southwest everyday must love
32 Post contains images 2H4 : Incompetance? Which other airline has been profitable for 30 years while maintaining industry-leading customer satisfaction? 2H4
33 Spartanmjf : The road to Chapter 11 is littered with competitors who have tried, and failed, to challenge Southwest's ability to satisfy customers and deliver a pr
34 Markabcan : All this Southwest bashing is absolutely ridiculous! Southwest provides a very competitive product compared to all airlines out there. Good leg room,
35 Manta : One question I've got that no one seemed to mention yet is: With WN's populatiry at MDW, and now beginning service to DEN, it will just be a matter of
36 777Purser : Wow...I must admit... Take preference, run to the galley, pour drink, run down the aisle, serve pax...my best guess would be...6 to 9 at a time (no c
37 Post contains images Jacobin777 : where is Mariner? He usually gets into the mix on this.......that being said, I agree, I think F9 should do alright....
38 Tornado82 : This is one I can see... just because ORD sucks for on-time performance. However, your typical Chicagoan-northsider has their collective head up the
39 SRT75 : 135 pax, 3 FAs, and they get everyone a drink on a 50 min (airtime) flight from LAX to LAS (always full on Fridays and Sundays). I fly LAX-SMF quite
40 TheGreatChecko : Other than the fact that WN won't send you on another airline, they on the otherhand will hold a connection and do it all the time. In their Ops Cent
41 Dartland : UA is confronting WN with their ads -- they are are taking a gamble that they aren't giving any new publicity, since it sounds like WN's entrance to D
42 FATFlyer : Time difference with down under. Let him wake up first.
43 AirFrnt : Really? F9 has a huge following in DEN. They are one of the most popular companies out here, and have done well despite several attempts by UA to kil
44 PlanesNTrains : My recent flights displayed exactly the opposite. SEA-SJC was a broad mix of families, students, etc. SJC-LAX and LAX-OAK were FULL of business types
45 FLY777UAL : First of all, just curious as to how I was quoted as talking about WN's 737 type rating policy, but anyway... Wouldn't it be unusual for an airline t
46 Post contains links Iowaman : Southwest Airlines Begins Service in Denver, Announces Additional Flights and Destinations New Service Announced to Baltimore/Washington and Salt Lake
47 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I was thinking of that..but I figured he has some kind of email "alert" which will wake him up when the word "Frontier" gets mentioned on this thread
48 Post contains links FATFlyer : The point made by the book "The Millionaire Next Door". Its not what you spend but what you keep, in other words your net worth. For those not famili
49 UAL747DEN : Why would a business pax that lives in Denver fly WN over UA or F9? WN will serve 3 or after today 5 cities from DEN, not a whole lot. If you can fly
50 Post contains images Atrude777 : LMAO HAHAHA BURN. BURN/ BURN SEEEEERIKE 3 AND YOUR OUT!! So True though!!! I fly SWA alot, and honestly, iv never seen the mad rush, or the overbooki
51 SAIL52115 : Right on, bro! I really do like WN for these reasons: 1) I am a 20 min train ride from MDW, door-to-door! 2) Always on time in my experience 3) WN ha
52 Alphascan : I think you are right considering how well Frontier has competed against Ted in many of the same markets. Ted is actually losing market share y/y at
53 Post contains images Tornado82 : Just because I like MDW over ORD doesn't mean I like WN ORD is on my "Avoid like the plague" list... just below Philly, and above Atlanta. My MDW exp
54 AirFrnt : The article in today's Rocky Mountain News indicated that Southwest feels like they may expand up to 200 flights daily from DEN. 200 flts daily would
55 Acjflyer : that's just it, why does it matter if the airline flies to china if all you are doing is flying to SLC? I really don't care if my carrier flies to Du
56 Post contains images Mariner : I slept in. There doesn't seem to be a lot to say here - I thought the thread was about United but somehow some "WN will kill F9 posts" turned up. It
57 MSYtristar : The DEN market is big enough for WN/F9/UA to all co-exist happily right now. But if WN decides to build up to 200 flights per day (which I don't see h
58 SLUAviator : This comment shows your ignorance to the airline industry. Oversold flights are a good problem for an airline. You line up the people without seat as
59 Ckfred : Mike Boyd, an airline industry analyst, was quoted in the Chicago Tribune, about the time WN announced its DEN service, that WN might lose at DEN. Fir
60 MSYtristar : Take away the DIRECTV and the service is pretty much the same. The DIRECTV service is used by only about 25% of the passengers on flights under 90 mi
61 Post contains images N200WN : Your making much more out of this "blown connection" thing than it's worth. It happens so very rarely that you shouldn't even worry about it. With WN
62 Tornado82 : I lived in extended-Chicagoland and went to college with a slew of Northsiders. When I'd fly from Midway I would get a constant barrage of comments l
63 Post contains images SPREE34 : Ahhh those pesky little facts. Hum, some more of those pesky little facts. Southwest will prosper in Denver. Frontier will continue to prosper in Den
64 UA772IAD : I don't think I've even seen carts on WN. Most of the cart storage under the counters, if I remember correctly, is fixed shelf space. The snacks on W
65 Gritzngravee : Funny ad but is UNITED making any money? Someome mentioned it's funny how Southwest has a television show which displays their incompetence. That can
66 MSYtristar : "greyhound type"? Just like the millions of business passengers who choose WN on routes like HOU-DAL, STL-MDW, LAX-PHX, BWI-PVD, LAX-OAK, etc, etc. I
67 MSYtristar : What is that supposed to mean/imply? Strange, very strange.
68 Markabcan : You have got to be kidding me! Your obsession with United is fine, there is no need however to insult millions of people who don't share your ridicul
69 PlanesNTrains : What moronic statements. People in this thread have given numerous examples of the varied clientel of WN, no different than any other airline. Why ta
70 Luvfa : All Airlines require you to pay for a second seat if you are a "Customer of Size". The only thing is we get panned for it mainly because of our open
71 Gritzngravee : Your both added to my respected user list. It's obvious they will continually get raped by airlines that are burning through cash like a cheap whore
72 Alphascan : I would think that with your ex-insider's knowledge, you would know very well that Frontier provides its passengers wider seats than WN and in some c
73 VSLover : oh wow, i fully agree with you. i flew UA this weekend DEN-LAX-DEN and it was my first time in more than 4 years giving united another shot. i was so
74 Luvfa : People lets not lose focus here. If anyone is familiar with the "Southwest Effect", you know that fares will drop and passenger #'s will rise whether
75 Post contains images MSYtristar : Honestly, I have never really noticed a difference in seats when comparing Airbus and Boeing aircraft. Maybe that's because I need to lose some weigh
76 Luvfa : I don't think the seats are wider on an Airbus A/C. The fuselage is wider however which may make it appear larger. The open seating allows 25 minute
77 IRelayer : This is a flamebait. I have suggested deletion. For the record the TV show is a great move and also highlights the great things about WN while puttin
78 MD90fan : What will DL do about WN on the SLC-DEN run?
79 Mariner : See reply #57. cheers mariner
80 Luvfa : SWA was the only airline willing to do "Airline" all the other airlines refused! As far the customers who were on that show, they probably had to fil
81 A330300 : Working for F9, I know that the feeling has been tense among the ranks. A common concern among all Frontier employees is the Denver-centricity of the
82 Gritzngravee : That is the whole point of WN existence to be different, no assigned seating is one feature. Where as other airlines you are literally paying for your
83 Mariner : I am moderately surprised that you would post an internal staff memo on an internet website. cheers mariner
84 Post contains images A330300 : The letter was a thank you and recap of the last year for us to share with family and friends - nothing in there is exactly a secret, especially to A.
85 MSYtristar : A330300, If that was indeed on the intranet, that's where it belongs. I learned my lesson. I once posted something from that site on here and about a
86 Texan : Strange...the last WN flight I was on, I was one of about 120 passengers dressed in business attire. You know what? Same for just about every time I'
87 Boeing7E7 : A heavy business traveler that does that route 2-3 times a year, 30 other destinations the rest of the year, and takes his/her family on vacation to
88 DouglasDC8 : I had the lovely experience of being on a Southwest flight that cancelled due to a mechanical problem. At the time I did not know that WN will not put
89 Mariner : I am not suggesting there is a secret. I am astonished at your concept of loyalty to your employer, who trusted you with their thoughts. If you recei
90 ATCT : My moneys' on Frontier. But hey, im an east coaster that works for Delta, so what do I know! :P ATCT
91 ScottB : Actually, I was thinking that there's an excellent response available for Southwest; something along the lines of: With United, you kind of, sort of,
92 777Purser : Anyone who works for a corporation with offices in multiple cities in various countries, that has them travel often and has no time to waste on five
93 MSYtristar : Surely you can't be talking about Southwest, because you can get to virtually any city they fly to with just one change of planes these days thanks t
94 MaverickM11 : You wouldn't know they were a new carrier at DIA from their gate area today. Nothing much going on in the way of fanfare...
95 Gigneil : Southwest has 2 gates. 2 That's it. 20 flights a day. 24 if you're Southwest. There aren't any more gates. N
96 777Purser : Which is better than having NOWHERE to put you in the event of a fairly possible cancellation due to a mechanical as mentioned in a story shared by s
97 Tornado82 : If it's got wings and its taking me to my final destination without me getting stranded somewhere overnight... I dont care if it's Bob's Cessna Skyha
98 Cjpark : People at my company flying from DAL to HOU and those in Houston flying HOU to DAL refer to WN as the company bus. It is just a bus with wings that y
99 Post contains links CTHEWORLD : Similar? Not really. Besides, you can buy the snack box or appropriate (dependind on time of day) fresh meal on UAL. WN http://www.airlinemeals.net/i
100 UAL747DEN : Yes we are onto something, we are onto the fact that you do not travel a lot for business. We are also onto the fact that you do not earn many miles.
101 APFPilot1985 : Did you pre-teen child log in under your name and write this? Someone who flies the route multiple times a month in addition to the other business re
102 PlanesNTrains : Thanks for proving two points. 1. WN carries many people in these corridors for business - it's not just college students and the down-and-out crowd.
103 UAL747DEN : Yes like you said, "Any city that they fly to" There lies the problem....... The city will build more gates for any airline that wants them. I don't
104 Iowaman : 200? There must be a bunch more gates coming sometime and WN is doing extremely well in DEN if that is true. True, however considering the lines they
105 PlanesNTrains : I never understand statements like these. While it is obvious the frequent, full-fare business traveler is the customer everyone is fighting for, the
106 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : I guess Frontier is screwed then. -Dave
107 Cloudy : If you look at Southwest's load factor, it is usually LOWER than that of its competitors. This is because it likes to have an extra flight or two bet
108 Post contains images Tornado82 : There's a difference between changing planes, and stopping. There are still multi-stop flights, that might just involve one change of planes. My pers
109 CTHEWORLD : Hmmmm...sounds like a Greyhound bus stopping everywhere along the way. No thanks.
110 PlanesNTrains : That is a frustration. I like to know where my stops are. Heck, maybe I'd have a chance to visit a new airport or city-pair or something. Instead, yo
111 PlanesNTrains : The vast majority of Legacy itineraries require at least one stop, sometimes two, as they route you through a mega hub. Hmmmm...sounds like a cargo f
112 2H4 : ...And WN has never claimed to be anything more than affordable, basic transportation. So is there a specific problem you're referring to, or are you
113 Mariner : Um - the city will build gates for anyone who will pay for them. DIA will not build new gates for Frontier until Frontier commits to a contract that
114 Antoniemey : Which, according to Greyhound's latest advertising push, they no longer do, or at least not nearly so much. Still, if it gets you there cheap, the av
115 AirFrnt : It's very much boom time in DEN right now, despite the sluggishness of the Computer industry bounce back. The ski resorts are having the best year ev
116 CTHEWORLD : Really? I can get to nearly any first, second and third tier cities on majors, without stops from my hometown airport. I don't know where you are get
117 PlanesNTrains : Well since you didn't list your "hometown" I guess we all have to take your word for it, don't we. But in the meantime, let's be clear: If you are sa
118 Post contains images We're Nuts : It's lonely at the top, but you eat better. Go WN!
119 CTHEWORLD : Dave- I said 1, 2, 3 tier cities, major business centers.
120 Mariner : Where? The two temp gates on C? They were announced after Southwest. A? As noted in #114, DIA will not build permanent gates until they have a signed
121 Post contains images APFPilot1985 : That is ridiculous, I live in a small town in FL with one airline and I can literally get to 99% of destinations with one stop. It is VERY rare of le
122 AirFrnt : I should have clarified this statement, before Southwest announced SLC and BWI. It has been, but that was simply because F9 was the only possible rec
123 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : That's fine, but the question is, are you offering as the example one airline that serves all those cities nonstop from your hometown airport, or are
124 Mariner : I'd be fairly sure that if gates had been available on A, Southwest would have grebbed 'em. There is also the matter of the shortage of international
125 PlanesNTrains : How is my comment ridiculous? I said most itineraries require one stop, sometimes two. Isn't that what you just said? I am a WN fanboy. I'm also an A
126 AirFrnt : Yep. Most of the discussions I heard about with regard to A concourse space occured before Southwest made their splashy intro. Regardless this is mor
127 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : just to make sure, I didn't make that particular comment.. I think part of the thread has to do with ... "Bullseye On Frontier. Take it to the bank:
128 Tornado82 : It's nice to see that even people who self-admittedly "love WN" think the fanboys are overboard on here too. I personally have no beef with WN, they
129 ScottB : That is perhaps what is being said publicly, but it should be pretty obvious that the primary reason UA is holding on to those gates on A is to keep
130 Post contains images Mariner : Ideally, yes. Partly because of the price difference between those gates and the new (to be built) gates. Keenly aware of that. However, as stated el
131 UAL747DEN : 1 stop if you do not live in a hub city but 99.998% of the time you would not have 2 stops unless flying WN. Being that we are talking about Denver y
132 AirFrnt : The east end of A IIRC, is taken right now with RJ space is it not? I have to go dig my plans up. It may just be that I am thinking of Concourse B. A
133 Mariner : They are requiring Frontier to sign a contract to lease the gates. This contract will - over the term of the lease - cover the entire cost of constru
134 ScottB : I was going to say basically the same; you'd have to find somewhere else to put Horizon and Great Lakes in that situation. I would expect that the ac
135 Alphascan : The entire airport's gates are spoken for at this time, but the the entire airport's gates are nowhere near being utilized to full capacity right now
136 APFPilot1985 : exactly what i was trying to say.....
137 ScottB : The problem is...United has leases on the gates. As long as United remains in compliance with the gate utilization specified in the leases, the City
138 Mariner : I put it as it was said to me by someone at DIA who is privy to the deal. Um - this is what they have been trying to do since incoming Mayor Hickenlo
139 PlanesNTrains : Which, again, is no different than what I said. I don't disagree with anything you just pointed out. Tell me where I'm going wrong, because I don't s
140 Tornado82 : Yeah but as rare as those situations are, more often than not those are small outstations that no LCC would ever think about serving on one or both e
141 UA772IAD : As said above- I did not create the term "greyhound type" (see SBN580 and Incitatus's replies) I was simply referencing it to what someone else said
142 PlanesNTrains : With all due respect, I'm not sure if you even know the point I was making. Agreed. I went through and reread all of the posts that I made, and those
143 IRelayer : What "comments"? I was asking a question. Did you miss the question mark? The confrontational spirit of this board never ceases to amaze. -IR
144 Post contains links MD-90 : Southwest needs to upgrade their cabin to compete with Frontier and United in Denver. Check out Mike Boyd's commentary on the state of Southwest: http
145 PlanesNTrains : That's for sure. Just as was stated, assigned seating and IFE of some sort would go a long ways towards keeping WN competitive. As it is, the new bre
146 Midway2AirTran : It's the type of response I would like to hear, they need to react to its customers, not the competition. Wall Street may hate this type response ini
147 777fan : I've been following Anet for the past couple of weeks and finally decided to join after coming to the realization that some may have fallen prey to t
148 Wjcandee : Dude: So fly UA. Love it. Live it. Worship it. That's what choice is all about. That said, let me make a few observations, designed not to persuade y
149 Markabcan : These are not facts but your experience on several different occasions. This is hardly reason enough to denounce Southwest! You have a choice and it
150 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Welcome to A.net! Well, you might want to define "Facts", as you listed a mix of facts and opinions, but no big deal. That would suck. My wife loved t
151 Ppostro : The ad's are creative, they are created by UA's agency of record, Leo Burnett Chicago. It'll be interesting to see the TV, Radio aspect of this mass a
152 Moparman : Irelayer: --- Quoting Moparman (Reply 4): For the life of me: Southwest is laughable. Which other airline has a television show highlighting their tot
153 Post contains images Tornado82 : You won't get it, you're one of the handful of Southwest fans here who can admit they have faults. That's almost RU-List worthy by the standards of o
154 Spartanmjf : The last time I checked, WN is still providing snack service, unlike a couple of our legacy friends who have abandoned pretzels..... For a business t
155 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : I have faults? LOL. -Dave
156 Tornado82 : No no, you admit Southwest's faults. And evidentally you like trains too, I was a train nut before planes even thanks to my grandpa when i was about
157 BigOrange : Easyjet Every airline oversells every flight. The difference with Southwest is their fares are lower, and seats can't be held without payment, unlike
158 Cjpark : Funny but my last post was deleted without any messages from the moderators. What is going on? No 2h4 I am not complaining only telling you exactly h
159 BURules : Leo Burnett has not been United's agency for years. They were created by Fallon in Minneapolis.
160 Alphascan : FYI- United hasn't worked with Burnett for years. The ads were created by Fallon-Minneapolis.
161 Moparman : My traveling is I guess roughly 70% pleasure / 30% business. I tend to plan ahead, especially with my vacation travel. On-time performance, and less
162 Wjcandee : Unreal.
163 Wjcandee : Oh, yeah. Like this wouldn't have happened anyway. Crandall took the olives out of the salads a long time before Southwest posed any kind of threat.
164 Post contains images SBN580 : Exactly! Very succinct and to the point.
165 HAMAD : regarding those ticket change fees. i once talked to a friend of mine when she worked as a reservation agent with NW, she said that it doesnt cost $10
166 Moparman : I agree with you on this. When I travel for business (or pleasure), I have to pay everything myself without any reembursement. That is the nature of
167 OPNLguy : SWA once had the peak/off-peak structure too...
168 Wjcandee : Thanks for the interesting responses. In rereading my post, I think that it would have been better for me to have said "highly-price-sensitive travell
169 DLKAPA : I was on flt 743 to Vegas. Brand new 737-700, N228WN (the one that came in for the press release), the way the flight crew we talked to the day befor
170 HoosierCFI : As for WN's advertising campaign in DEN, I think that they should focus on the competition without naming them. Example: WN's change fee = $0 Snack Bo
171 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Sorry, my sarcasm again. I got it. Ya, my first and primary passion is trains - to an unhealthy degree. Unfortunately, the railroad forums aren't as
172 Tornado82 : PlanesNTrains, check your priv. messages... I would have posted here but I didn't want to turn this into a train thread.
173 Halls120 : Maybe they are, but so what? Much of my leisure flying is from IAD to OAK or SMF to visit the folks. I always check out WN, but find that for essenti
174 Wjcandee : True, actually. BUT, you don't get plane cams that are equivalent to say, Sand Patch on trainorders.com That, actually, would be pretty cool.
175 PlanesNTrains : That's fine. I was responding to a "slam" so to speak against WN because UA and AA offer the same fares. I'm not saying that you should fly them, but
176 PlanesNTrains : There are some good webcams for trains, and LiveRadio for the dispatcher/train communications as well. Kinda the channel 9 of railroading I guess! -D
177 Post contains images Tornado82 : Sand Patch?!? Now you're talking my tune. Like I told PNT on that private message... when I still lived on the good side of PA I used to go up on the
178 Burnsie28 : I was on the very first flight yesterday to LAS. All the "festivities" took place after the first flights left. The flight attendents mumbled over th
179 Cloudy : Southwest does vary its antics a bit depending on route and passenger mix. As a percentage of the time spent in the plane, there really is not that m
180 Cjpark : That is an interesting post Cloudy, full of fluff but yet still interesting. One question for you. You compare other airlines frequent flyer programs
181 Tornado82 : False. When you're elite, and tired of travelling all day, making your connection... you can sit on your ass in the chair until they call "Elite, bla
182 Tango-Bravo : Which I have experienced on the route I fly most often with WN, PHX-LAX-PHX, about 75-80 minutes each way overall, about 45 minutes in cruise mode. O
183 PlanesNTrains : Definitely makes me wish I was Elite! Of course, if you're not elite, then it may not mean as much to you who you fly. Myself, I'd at least prefer se
184 N471WN : Made 4 SWA flights in and out of Denver this past week---all flights were over 90% full so UAL and Frontier can only watch as over 1500 butts per day
185 ScottB : It's funny -- this is a market segment in which Southwest has little to no interest. To quote Southwest's 2004 annual report: People do connect on So
186 Post contains links Mariner : Amazingly impressive. Just to put it in perspective, SWA's January 2005 load factor was 58.8%. http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/press/prindex.html
187 Tornado82 : That wasn't the point of what I said. My quote was in response to an earlier quote that Elite benefits are discriminatory, an ego stroke, and pointle
188 ScottB : Yes, even more impressive given that perspective, since WN rarely breaks 60% for load factor in January; the highest I could find going back to 1997
189 Post contains images Tornado82 : A more indicative LF for DEN will be around June... right now there's a novelty factor. Introductory fares + newness = Novelty. Look at the sales of
190 Mariner : Obviously, one would hope that is true. However - forgive me if I am wrong - isn't the 90% load factor figure for SWA at DEN in January '06 completel
191 Post contains links ScottB : Completely and entirely! Of course, every flight was completely booked on the first day of service (see http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_3366284),
192 Post contains images Tornado82 : I know summer loads are strong for everyone, but I doubt WN has a 90+% LF systemwide in June. The point was June is long enough from now that the nov
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