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Could Southwest Start ATL Soon?  
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2502 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 12 months 21 hours ago) and read 5242 times:

Just looking at a few similarities

DEN: 1 legacy in bankruptcy -UAL
ATL: 1 legacy in bankruptcy -DAL

DEN: 1 strong incumbent LCC -Frontier
ATL: 1 strong incumbent LCC -Airtran

DEN: huge market
ATL: huge market

DEN: "There is no way we will fly to DEN"
ATL: "There is no way we will fly to ATL"

DEN: no gates available?
ATL: no gates available?

Just my opinion, but if DEN is a success for WN, look for them to move into ATL. Lots of cities alot closer to each other with big potential.

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineS5FA170 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 534 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (8 years 12 months 21 hours ago) and read 5227 times:

I think their is a big difference between Frontier and AirTran in terms of the scope of their operation at DEN vs. ATL and the way they would/could compete with Southwest in each market. AirTran is many times bigger in ATL and on the east coast, in general, than Frontier is in Denver and in any specific region of the country. I'm not saying it won't happen, but I don't think the comparisons given above are as cut and try as you make them out to be! While similair in many respects, FL and F9 are also very different airlines.

-Tony



Prepare doors for departure and cross-check.
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (8 years 12 months 20 hours ago) and read 5213 times:

Doubtful but who knows. I don't know where WN would get gates since DL will snatch up anything it can get. DL and AT will protect their hub as much as possible. Even if WN does get in there wouldn't be a huge amount of ability to grow due to gate space. If you want to save money by flying WN just drive to Birmingham and spend the money you saved on your ticket in gas to get there and back home.


"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 12 months 20 hours ago) and read 5212 times:

That's a good point, but after they started PHL, nothing surprises me any more. One statement that WN made when they announced DEN was that not having DEN left a big gap in their system. The same could be said about ATL. (With the exception of maybe driving to BHM).

User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1909 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (8 years 12 months 20 hours ago) and read 5151 times:

Southwest will never fly to ATL. They don't want to deal with the congestion. That's why they pulled out of SFO and ATL is worse.

It's possible that they at some point will send in ATA, though ....



- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 12 months 20 hours ago) and read 5121 times:

"Southwest will never fly to ATL. They don't want to deal with the congestion. That's why they pulled out of SFO and ATL is worse."


I would say that the congestion in PHL can be as bad as anywhere and it didn't stop WN from starting service. I believe that ATL has another runway opening soon that should help on the congestion.

As far as gates go, it seems just about any city will do whatever it takes to make room for WN (temporary gates, international terminals, moving around other carriers, etc....).


User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (8 years 12 months 19 hours ago) and read 5057 times:

The was a book published about Delta airlines in the early 90's. The title escapes me and its at the condo in Naples. One thing the author dwelled on was Southwest not coming to ATL due to congestion.
ATL will have another runway in a year or so. Perhaps the current congestion will be alleviated when that happens and if so, watch for Southwest to perhaps, make a move.
The book did say that Southwest had a luke-warm interest in Fulton County Airport. But remember, that was 10 to 15 years ago.
Things can and have changed....like Delta now in chapter 11, which was unheard of back in that timeframe.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6651 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 12 months 19 hours ago) and read 5030 times:

Southwest could use the new South Passenger Complex if built.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 12 months 19 hours ago) and read 4998 times:

Does Delta use all of their ATL gates now? After they decided to drop 2/3s of their MCO gates, you have to wonder if some trimming might be in store for ATL as part of the reorginization plan. I'm sure FL is in line for more if they become available.

User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7558 posts, RR: 23
Reply 9, posted (8 years 12 months 19 hours ago) and read 4985 times:

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 5):
I would say that the congestion in PHL can be as bad as anywhere and it didn't stop WN from starting service.

Do keep in mind that at the time WN first started service at PHL, US was still in its 2nd Chapter 11 filing in 5 years and was on the verge of Chapter 7; that is until the recent HP merger.

Not sure about DL's current state of affairs, but I believe US' (whose PHL hub is smaller than DL's ATL hub IIRC) state of affairs in 2004-2005 (pre-merger) was still worse than DL's. I could be wrong.

[Edited 2006-01-03 20:12:25]


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (8 years 12 months 19 hours ago) and read 4970 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 7):
Southwest could use the new South Passenger Complex if built.

It's on hold right now with no good timeline on being built from things I have heard and read. Same goes for the new international terminal I believe but those in the know may be able to set me straight.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 8):
Does Delta use all of their ATL gates now?

Yes. One way or the other they use all their gates. Perhaps not to the best level but they use them.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 8):
After they decided to drop 2/3s of their MCO gates, you have to wonder if some trimming might be in store for ATL as part of the reorginization plan.

There is a world of difference between MCO and ATL.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 5):
I would say that the congestion in PHL can be as bad as anywhere and it didn't stop WN from starting service.

PHL is a fair bit smaller than ATL and our backups can be 20 planes deep and sometimes more.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 5):
As far as gates go, it seems just about any city will do whatever it takes to make room for WN (temporary gates, international terminals, moving around other carriers, etc....).

Perhaps but the city is also tied into DL and FL quite tightly now. WN will not be a huge player right off the bat if they even come to ATL. The city won't be giving away the kitchen sink to get them to come here.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4528 posts, RR: 33
Reply 11, posted (8 years 12 months 19 hours ago) and read 4948 times:

ATL will have another runway in a year or so. Perhaps the current congestion will be alleviated when that happens and if so, watch for Southwest to perhaps, make a move.

There are some interesting points in this thread, especially this one. I still think Southwest is unlikely to enter ATL. But given the items Quickmover and Safe pointed out (and I'd note Kelly's aggressive boldness too) it doesn't sound completely out of the question any more.

Actually, Quickmover, that's another similarity: DEN: increased runway capacity in the market; ATL: increased runway capacity in the market.

1337--I'd bet Southwest wouldn't be interested in a new terminal; they'd probably want the lowest fees possible at the airport. AirTran, however, with their more explicitly business-oriented product, and the prospect of getting hub operations out of their current situation so far from landside, probably would be interested.

With AirTran in a new terminal, suddenly Concourse C would have lots of room. Unless DL has the City of Atlanta *completely* whipped, WN could probably get hold of some of those gates.

Interesting possibilities. ATL experts would need to give more info, though.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineN200WN From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 784 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 12 months 19 hours ago) and read 4927 times:

Southwest will NEVER fly to ATL!

There are NO gates available for them!
No one will fly WN when DL has nonstops to every city on the planet!
AirTran has a better "product."
It's just too congested there!
My God, they don't even assign seats!
The fares are already low enough.
Only white trash fly Southwest.
No clubs! No interlining! No FF miles to Budapest!
Their planes are just too ugly.
They oversell all their flights and then misconnect those that are lucky enough to get a seat.
They don't fly to real airports. Who wants to go to AMA?
The TV show "Airline." Need I say more?
They're just like Wal-Mart! Low wages, non-union, and are responsible for the losses at every legacy airline and thousands of job losses industry wide.
They bully airports and cities into doing things they don't want to do and just shouldn't serve your city.

Have I missed anything??

[Edited 2006-01-03 20:52:17]

[Edited 2006-01-03 20:52:49]

User currently offlineSsides From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (8 years 12 months 19 hours ago) and read 4902 times:

Remember that UA at DEN is nothing compared to DL at ATL or AA at DFW.

UA only has 57% of DEN's traffic, while DL and AA have around 75% or 80% at ATL and DFW, respectively. May not sound like much, but it's a big difference.



"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2174 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (8 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 4883 times:

Quoting N200WN (Reply 12):
Southwest will NEVER fly to ATL!

There are NO gates available for them!
No one will fly WN when DL has nonstops to every city on the planet!
AirTran has a better "product."
It's just too congested there!
My God, they don't even assign seats!
The fares are already low enough.
Only white trash fly Southwest.
No clubs! No interlining! No FF miles to Budapest!
Their planes are just too ugly.
They oversell all their flights and then misconnect those that are lucky enough to get a seat.
They don't fly to real airports. Who wants to go to AMA?
The TV show "Airline." Need I say more?
There just like Wal-Mart! Low wages, non-union, and are responsible for the losses at every legacy airline and thousands of job losses industry wide.
The bully airports and cities into doing things they don't want to do and just shouldn't serve your city.

Have I missed anything??

LOL - excellent retort. Love the cynicism and sarcasm... it's so true - and I'm an AirTran guy.

Come on down to ATL - we'll make room. LCCs unite!

Travis


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7558 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (8 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 4864 times:

Quoting Travatl (Reply 14):
LOL - excellent retort. Love the cynicism and sarcasm... it's so true - and I'm an AirTran guy.

Come on down to ATL - we'll make room. LCCs unite!

Be careful what you wish for... you might get it.  wink 



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 4851 times:

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 4):
Southwest will never fly to ATL. They don't want to deal with the congestion. That's why they pulled out of SFO and ATL is worse.

They could fly to Birmigham, Alabama BHM and advertize it as "Metro Atlanta Area" just like they do with ISP for New York City and PVD/MHT for Boston.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (8 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 4827 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 16):
They could fly to Birmigham, Alabama BHM and advertize it as "Metro Atlanta Area" just like they do with ISP for New York City and PVD/MHT for Boston.

You're almost right. I know folks that commute from Anniston, AL into the city everyday. Personally I think they are morons but it shows the ridiculous reach this damn city has now. IIRC Chattanooga and Atlanta are considered together for the US government's statistical calculations. As Clark Howard says...BHM is Atlanta's other airport.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineLuvfa From United States of America, joined May 2005, 447 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 4818 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 16):
They could fly to Birmigham, Alabama BHM and advertize it as "Metro Atlanta Area" just like they do with ISP for New York City and PVD/MHT for Boston.

That may have been our MO prior to 9-11, but if you look at the airports added since 2002, they are primary not secondary airports!


User currently offlineLuvfa From United States of America, joined May 2005, 447 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (8 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 4791 times:

After the cities we've added in the past 2 years, PHL, DEN and PIT I learned never say never! Truth is we are adding 34 A/C and with the added gates in PHL, PIT, RSW and DEN, I honesly don't see how we can enter ATL this year and provide all the frequency we like!

User currently offlineAlphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 937 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (8 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 4754 times:

Quoting N200WN (Reply 12):
Have I missed anything??

Here's a few more:

They have narrow seats!

Need a seat belt extender? Ding! You just bought another seat!

Their turnaround times force pilots into dangerous landing procedures!

And the most recent reason not to fly Southwest:

Watch out for that light pole!



"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 21, posted (8 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 4728 times:

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 6):
The book did say that Southwest had a luke-warm interest in Fulton County Airport.

Are you talking about Charlie Brown over by Fulton Industrial Blvd.? Seems a bit small and not in a very safe part of town to me.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineLuvfa From United States of America, joined May 2005, 447 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 4725 times:

Quoting Alphascan (Reply 20):
Need a seat belt extender? Ding! You just bought another seat!

Their turnaround times force pilots into dangerous landing procedures!

No people only have to buy the second seat when when they protrude beyond the armrest on SWA or any one else! ( see my post above).

As far as your second point, it is so ridiculous I won't even dignify it with a response!

As a consumer you are free to fly whoever you wish!


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 4688 times:

Quoting N200WN (Reply 12):

Here Here!



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineAlphascan From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 937 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (8 years 12 months 17 hours ago) and read 4654 times:

Luvfa;

If I hit a sore spot, I apologize. Try reading it in the spirit it was intended. Same as N200WN's.



"To he who only has a hammer in his toolbelt, every problem looks like a nail."
25 Post contains images PHLBOS : Bold added: What? Now Spirit's coming to ATL? Sorry, but somebody had to do it.
26 Srbmod : That's the one. WN was not the only airline to express interest in using FTY for scheduled service. A short-lived start up in the late 1980s called A
27 Post contains images N200WN : I thought it was funny and in the spirit intended.
28 474218 : Hartsfield-Jackson Airport (ATL) is in Clayton County and it was 10 of 15 years ago. Charlie Brown Field, also known as Fulton County Airport, gets a
29 1337Delta764 : Isn't that infringment on a trademark?
30 Yanqui67 : LOL!! I work at Charlie Brown and on Fulton Industrial you can get whateeever you want. The hookers and crack hoes walk up and down the street all da
31 SunValley : Remember in cities like HOU, PHX, LAS, ONT, MDW etc etc WN is stronger than DL and has a loyal following. While DL may be the "chosen" in ATL, they a
32 Antoniemey : THere's a thought... WN could fly to Chattanooga. Admittedly, I don't know the terminal space situation in Chattanooga, but, it IS fairly close to AT
33 OzarkD9S : I seem to recall it being called SkyBus, but I could be wrong.
34 BHMBAGLOCK : They do They don't because there's no need, people from Atlanta come all on their own. Of course it's not uncommon for them to grab DL instead of WN
35 Cloudy : I believe this is short enough to cause weight restrictions on many longhaul flights. That would be a problem now since many potential destinations a
36 MarkATL : Whoa!! Wait just a minute....I have to catch my breath....Sorry, just a second....laughing too hard....oh man, I just shot coke out my nose!!! Did yo
37 LesMainwaring : if i remember correctly, the city was pretty down on using FTY for commercial use too, at least at that time ... wasn't Air Bus going to be part of t
38 Tornado82 : But do any of those cities have convenient secondary airports like Chicago, Dallas, and Houston? PIT's best bets would be LBE and for a real stretch
39 AirFrnt : There are a couple of reasons why these are very different markets. DEN is situated as close to the middle of the nation as any airport. That gives t
40 Wjcandee : Uh...they're a UNION airline. The mechanics, for example, are Teamsters. The flight attendants are members of Transport Workers Union of America, AFL
41 N200WN : Ok..in the future I'll be more careful, as I wouldn't want to put myself in any danger you know. Uh...I know that, I work for Southwest and I'm vague
42 Post contains images Tornado82 : Aw man, you should know by now that satire and sarcasm is unrealized by the masses on A.net by now bud. This is the same forum that got up in arms ab
43 ChrisNH : How much of a fight can Delta put up against Southwest? Sure, they can 'hog' gates...calling gates theirs but hardly using them. But what else can a n
44 AirFrnt : The funny thing is, the "fortress model" works great when defending a city against another hubbing carrier. But what WN seems to have figured out is t
45 Ckfred : Remember that some of the delays at PHL are caused by congestion, since the Northeast has the most congested airspace in the country. On the other han
46 Post contains images Deltadude : actually it's 2/3 in Clayton, 1/3 in Fulton. that's all I got
47 Wjcandee : So now the comedian is ragging the audience for not getting the joke? I complimented you on the rest of the post, but I assure you that there was no
48 Tornado82 : I did.
49 Kubus : If I had to bet on WN next city it would be CLT. They are going after the US, and CLT is the one left. Yeah I know LGA is still there but NYC market i
50 Post contains images Tornado82 : And that pesky little issue of getting enough slots to make an entry to the market useful.
51 Luvfa : Sorry I must have missed 200WN's post indeed. Taken in that context it is hilarious indeed! I apologize!
52 Wjcandee : You knew that the statement that it was non-union was ironic? Or you knew that the list was ironic. I got the latter but not the former. If you did,
53 N200WN : Well either way, WJ is right. My sincere apologies William. Smug is now humbly set to "off."
54 Echster : My opinion, but SW will fly to CLT before they fly to ATL.
55 Wjcandee : N200WN: What a gracious response! Welcome to my respected user's list. No reason for us to war, since we basically agree, and, after all, I DID like y
56 AirTranTUS : You mean pull a Ryanair? They could do the same by flying to Macon and calling it ATL.
57 1F : Toss my 2-cents in from memory recollection & currently no access to my files At one time before Midwest was even an airline they flew a corporate DC-
58 DAL767400ER : That was the old plan. With the current plan, the new runway will be able to accomodate more than just RJs, as it will be just as long as 08L/26R and
59 KALB : How about Dobbins AFB/Lockheed in Marietta? It is located in metro-Atlanta.
60 ChiGB1973 : No possibility at all. ATA was their DEN connection, TZ their MSP connection, TZ their SFO connection. I am normally cautious about saying "never," b
61 DeltaGator : How much of a fight? A fair amount if you ask me. Hogging gates is one very good way. If WN can't get any gates then they can't have any flights. If
62 Post contains images BR715-A1-30 : Delta and... Royal Air Maroc? Nope..LOL, I think you just about covered it all.. I loved WN when I flew with them... When I flew on US 737-400, I had
63 1337Delta764 : No, he means AirTran
64 DeltaGator : My bad. I meant FL. I had AirTran on my brain and that spilled out. I think they should always be referred to as Citrus or the old ValuJet callsign o
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