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Yet Another AS Incident At SEA...  
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9175 times:

From NWCN (Northwest Cable News) website:

http://www.nwcn.com/statenews/washin...6WABseatacincidentLJ.4a8f633f.html

At least AS is saving money by having lower cost Menzies on the property and customers are getting lower fares as a result...  Yeah sure

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStuckinMAF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9141 times:

From the article....

"Four passengers - three adults and one miner"

I hope this wasn't the miner from WV that survived! Much too early for him to be flying!


User currently offlineJpyvr From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9133 times:

From the NWCN link in the original post: " Both Alaska and Port of Seattle officials say a tow tug collided with the jet, damaging it enough to take it out of service. Four passengers - three adults and one miner - were on board at the time, but no injuries were reported."

My question, do you think the fourth passenger was a gold miner since the flight originated in Alaska? I can't believe neither the writer or the editor of the article knows the difference between "miner" and "minor." Shameful.


User currently offlineFoxecho From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 746 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9086 times:

Aaah the publik skools in action again

Andrew



..uh, we'll need that to live......
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1597 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9074 times:

Quoting Jpyvr (Reply 2):
My question, do you think the fourth passenger was a gold miner since the flight originated in Alaska? I can't believe neither the writer or the editor of the article knows the difference between "miner" and "minor." Shameful.

Maybe it was this guy...


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Photo © Joel Camp




Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9047 times:

Quoting Jpyvr (Reply 2):
My question, do you think the fourth passenger was a gold miner since the flight originated in Alaska? I can't believe neither the writer or the editor of the article knows the difference between "miner" and "minor." Shameful.

Since it was "breaking news" it was probably written very quickly. I've noticed that on other news sites, and then they go back and correct it later on once they catch it.


User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4670 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 8959 times:

it has been corrected


For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineGift4tbone From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 8912 times:

Ok, I'm not even going to read this article. But this is my thoughts:

AS, Smarten up! You're lucky nobody has been killed. Get rid of the menzies! Or someone might!

When will they learn? Does the FAA need to step in? I'll tell ya, if I was the director of the FAA or even the NTSB, I would be personally knocking on AS's door. And I wouldn't even think of booking an AS flight to seattle to do so either.

-Tony@PVD



Top 3 airports: PVD 26.0%(115 flights), PHL 15.6%(69 flights), PHX 12.0%(53 flights)
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3499 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 8874 times:

This is turning into a real PR problem for AS. Too much negative press in their largest market is bound to take a toll if something isn't done about the ground handling situation soon.

Out of curiosity, does AS still employ their own ground staff at other stations? (ANC, PDX, LAX?)



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 8852 times:

I am sorry but I simply can't get over the word "menzies" and it's usage as slang for "menstruation."

User currently offlineThepilot From Canada, joined Jan 2010, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8735 times:

I'm definetely not liking all the problems these days at SEA. I am flying Alaska twice in the next month, and I hope they can sort things out at SEA.


From YVR
User currently offlineSocalatc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8713 times:

Alaska contracts Menzies in LAX-PDX-SEA and I think a few other stations. The only remaining Alaska rampers are in the state of Alaska.. Menzies is a joke, they have caused Alaska bad press, bad service and just a bad experience. I love Alaska, but I wish they would get their heads out of their asses and DO SOMETHING!

User currently offlineOkie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2986 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8710 times:

http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/a...reliminary_data/media/D_0104_N.txt

Well an AS737 struck back a LAX and hit a tug.

But then again it sounds like missing chocks.

Okie


User currently offlineSocalatc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 524 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 8649 times:

The way I see it is when you work for a company you have company pride and you want to do well for that company and want your company to do well. When you just work for a company who works for a company there is no pride, no moral, or incentives for good work. These Menzies workers could give a damn about Alaska Airlines or how they do. All they want is there 9 bucks an hour and go home. If Alaska had their own people they would care about the company they work for. If Alaska did the right thing and hired their own people back, I think they would see a big difference. Can someone who works for Alaska PLEASE go to someone in corporate and slap the hell out of the retard who made these decisions, maybe that will wake him or her up.

User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6088 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8550 times:

AS and Menzies

SEA-PDX-SFO-SJC-LAX-SJD-PVR-GDL and a number of other Mexico stations.

Note that I am defending Menzies or Alaska in any way guys, but look at the big picture. We have had Menzies (Ogden) at SFO-PDX-SJC-LAX and Mexico for many, many years with very little accidents. The SEA issue was blown up with the way AS got rid of its own ramp and now with the accidents. The incident with Flight 808 its the same kind of things that happens with every other airline PERIOD. Now I am in no way taking away from the incident with the MD80 the other day. That was plain and simple BS and some people should have more then there hand slapped. But from AS point of view the airline has to have a lot of incidents to balance out the money being saved with a contractor. I can't say exact numbers, not knowing if I am allowed, but the saving is over $14 million in on the job injury saving alone. That just OJI, and does not including the medical, 401K, etc., the company had to spend with its own ramp. But I agree with all of you that AS has to look hard at finding a solution. But even bring back our own ramp, most of those people have moved on to other jobs, so we'd have to train from scratch with all new people anyhow.

Also, the same incidents happened even when we had our own rampers. In some ways our own AS crews were even worse. But with the SEA area press practically on the ramp with us, no stone goes unturned. But I will agree that this is a major PR issue right now. But we will have to sit back and see what happens since none of us can do anything!

ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineFlyidaho From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8498 times:

I agree-ramp rash happens at nearly every major airport nearly all the time. We just don't always hear about it and 99% of the time it doesn't make the news like these AS incidents. Read the NTSB reports and they are full of ramp incidents. Menzies has been providing services for AS for a long time and I don't see them parting ways with AS anytime soon with the economics that are involved. I'm thinking that with the PR at SEA now, that might just become the safest ramp in America.

User currently offlineLono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1335 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8375 times:

so menzies will pay for the door/fuselage damage and the engine damage caused by the belt loader..???.... plus the cancellation of the DFW flight's...???
This one is going to be expensive.......



Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
User currently offlineHikesWithEyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 816 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8362 times:

Quoting Lono (Reply 16):
plus the cancellation of the DFW flight's...???

The DFW flight was not canceled. The aircraft was swapped and the
flight did operate.



First, benzene in my Perrier, and now this!
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5890 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 8348 times:
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So, this is going to be a retarded question, but I am going to ask it and nobody is going to stop me.

Why is Alaska/Menzies having so many problems at SEA? But you never hear of Alaska/Menzies problems at PDX and LAX...at least recently???

I ask the question, do you think that some of the accidents/incidents occurring in SEA today may be a result of sabotage to AS for getting rid of the company rampers?


User currently offlineAS739X From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6088 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8312 times:

Wedge: Menzies PDX operation is well established and is very professional. Matter of fact I feel that their reputation there has put Menzies foot into the door in other station. SFO is also a good operation for them. We had issues with Menzies at OAK and dumped them. LAX has some issues to be taken care of as does SEA. But fact is that Menzies insurance covers what they damage so other then some low cost and A/C OTS time is doesn't effect AS greatly. Now the PR side of things has gone a little sour and that will be AS biggest challenge.

ASLAX



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8282 times:

Quoting AS739X (Reply 19):
Now the PR side of things has gone a little sour and that will be AS biggest challenge.

Bingo - there is an old saying, Perception equals Reality, and everything that has happened in SEA since the switch is building a very negative perception. I think your analysis of the cause/effect was spot on, but if AS doesn't do something soon to address the perceived breakdown of SEA ops, it doesn't matter how much this happens elsewhere, AS is going to be marked as an 'unsafe' airline.



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 8252 times:

Quoting Socalatc (Reply 13):
The way I see it is when you work for a company you have company pride and you want to do well for that company and want your company to do well. When you just work for a company who works for a company there is no pride, no moral, or incentives for good work.

In this particular case, I would probably agree with you, however...

My employer is a very well respected Authorized Independent Programmer for a line of automation gear (primarially the stuff of training rooms, high end board rooms, video conferencing facilities, and to a rapidly growing extent, homes). We never work directly for the true client. Instead the dealer of the gear is our client.

I would say that because of how important continued business is for us (and the fact that the client's client could go somewhere else OR the client could go somewhere else, either resulting in lost business for us), we do take pride in what we do, there is high morale, and many incentives for doing high quality work (the aforementioned people going elsewhere, the desire for one dealer to refer us to another, and the possibility that if we really f'ed things up we would no longer be authorized independent programmers.

In return? We kind of lurk in the darkness. There's a reason the shirts I wear don't have a company name embroidered on them. Sometimes end users come up with really, really bad ideas and you have to "talk them down" through 6 layers of people. We don't have a published client list, and I may very well be shot for even hinting about who some of our end user's clients are (a very impressive list of well-known individuals, local/state/federal agencies, universities, large publically held companies, financial institutions etc.)

But as you can probably tell, I do take pride in what I do. Maybe it's because we're a fairly small company; maybe it's because my boss (the owner of the company) is a great guy and knows how to run a business (both for profit and employee satisfaction); maybe it's because some of our jobs are invoiced for more than I make in a year, but being a contractor doesn't instantenaously mean inferior work.

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineLono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1335 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8212 times:

Quoting HikesWithEyes (Reply 17):
The DFW flight was not canceled. The aircraft was swapped and the
flight did operate.

Two hours later.... there was no expense to this...???? Was the flight full...???? Was the flight full of happy customers...??? You don't think this cost AS anything..????



Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 8189 times:

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 18):
I ask the question, do you think that some of the accidents/incidents occurring in SEA today may be a result of sabotage to AS for getting rid of the company rampers?

Huh? By whom....pilots? mechanics? flight attendants? This was all ramp related, all by Menzies people. The ex-ground folks from AS were fired last May. Your question makes no sense.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5445 posts, RR: 29
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 8086 times:

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 20):
Bingo - there is an old saying, Perception equals Reality, and everything that has happened in SEA since the switch is building a very negative perception. I think your analysis of the cause/effect was spot on, but if AS doesn't do something soon to address the perceived breakdown of SEA ops, it doesn't matter how much this happens elsewhere, AS is going to be marked as an 'unsafe' airline.

I agree, but right now I think the vast majority of folks in Seattle are oblivious to the incidents. It's interesting to visit KOMO's website, for example, and read the latest, but then you move on and don't really give it another thought.

I'm guessing that, for now, very few people would shy away from AS when booking travel, and virtually no one if they were the lowest fare. As big of a deal as it is here, I have yet to hear a single person make more than a passing comment, and that was only after prodding by me.

Quoting Lono (Reply 22):
Two hours later.... there was no expense to this...???? Was the flight full...???? Was the flight full of happy customers...??? You don't think this cost AS anything..????

I think you're a little more worked up over it than most would be. I'm sure that the passengers weren't happy, but are they ever happy for any delay? How many times do people ON THIS FORUM complain about XYZ Airlines for delays, even when they are safety related (i.e weather, aircraft change, etc.)?

The Menzies mess is just that - a mess. But the only reason anyone is aware of it is the media. They smell blood, so to speak, and are on it, primarily because it's the hometown airline and also because of the MD80 issue. Othewise, nobody really cares at this point - IMHO.

Alaska is in a very bad spot - They are in the media spotlight for the Menzies issue after firing their own employees, but if they revert back saying it was a mistake, they will be screwed the next time this labor situation arises. In their shoes, I'm sure it is a lose-lose, so you might as well lose by getting your way, rather than saying you screwed up.

And before you say that they would be held up by the masses as a wonderful company for rehiring their own employees, the fact is it would be just like the Valujet thing (though much smaller of course): "Alaska, which fired it's own employees in a bid to save money, only to rehire them after a host of safety issues, had a new incidient today...."

Just my opinion. Please, I'm tired, if you disagree, state your point, but don't hit me with the attitude. I want to be able to go to bed  Smile.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
25 HIKESWITHEYES : Calm down...I was just correcting your inaccurate statement. You said or implied that the flight was canceled when in fact it was not.
26 DCrawley : I'm not here to pick a bone with you.. but you really believe AS fleet should be grounded? Ever checked out the fines the FAA has given to other airl
27 Post contains links Suprazachair : Not sure if you all can view this (I can cut and paste if you can't), but this is the statement from everyone's favorite CEO Bill Ayer.... Bill Ayer's
28 Galapagapop : Good to see that meeting really helped prevent more incidents from happening!
29 Post contains images AnMCOSon : From the news site... That should say pulled foward, not pushed, unless they had the tug hooked up backwards, which in AS's case with ramp mishaps, is
30 Crash65 : You get what you pay for.
31 BigOrange : No! Their insurance company will, and the more incidents like this that take place, the more their premiums will go up. The negative press is being g
32 Tod : The slappers or the slappees? Tod
33 Lincoln : I would think that if someone truly smacked the heck out the person in HQ who made the decision, that we would have seen AS either (a) start transiti
34 Ctbarnes : Pardon?? I knew a lot of those rampers who lost their jobs and as it turns out very few did go to work for Menzies. Most were so fed up with being je
35 Post contains images StevenUhl777 : That work SUCKS. After working in the bagwell at the N satellite at SEA and in Air Freight for UA in the summer of '96, it's not something I'd ever w
36 Post contains images AnMCOSon : Backbreaking isn't the word for it, more like hunchback creating work. Over here in PIT, our leads/supers move the tug towards the plane to hook up t
37 Cessna172RG : From someone who gets to work with Menzies on a daily basis... Menzies hires just about anyone with a limited, if any, background check. Yes, they don
38 Ctbarnes : Oh, God. Where are the POS Ramp Patrollers when you need them?? Charles, SJ
39 Tango-Bravo : Not to worry... Alaska's management is well aware that pax "loyalty" can be readily bought by the memory-purging narcotic known generically as cheap
40 Flybynight : I must say I do have second thoughts about AS out of SEA. I usually fly UA, but living in the Seattle area, I frequently fly AS. However, if the price
41 Post contains images GentFromAlaska : Menzies new theme song at SEA is a take on the Pat Bennatar song "Hit Me With Your Best Shot" The new title dubbed for them is "Hit Me With Your Best
42 Lono : This is the second time someone has posted a "drunken Klingon" remark... It would be very cool if someone could take a pic of these clowns and post i
43 Post contains images EA CO AS : Well see, there's your problem right there - the Menzies guy obviously was blinded by the little lamp on his helmet, causing him to hit the aircraft.
44 Tod : I should have taken pictures this summer. My wife and I were sitting in the AS Board Room hanging out waiting for a delayed flight. The stuff we saw
45 Post contains links Gunsontheroof : From yesterday's Times... http://archives.seattletimes.nwsourc...aska07&date=20060107&query=Menzies "Beginning Monday, four senior executives will lea
46 Lincoln : That article is just loaded with quotes that could be ripe for a late-night talk show...Or a lawsuit when someone finally does get injured... I'm not
47 Tango-Bravo : Are you serious in your implicit admission that you've missed an obvious point? In case you haven't noticed, motorized vehicles, some pulling cartloa
48 Ctbarnes : ...Provided they haven't defected to Southwest or Jet Blue by then. Charles, SJ
49 Lono : Exactly..... Great P/R for AS's most valued customer.... free floor show.... What is AS management thinking.....????? I know what the PAX are thinkin
50 Midex461 : IMHO, it's only a matter of time. AS was lucky that no-one was killed in the incident on the flight to BUR.
51 MrMcCoy : Ok the fact that this ramp rash occurred doesn't surprise me at all, but at the middle of the thread hearing about a cabin depressurization from a fo
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