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Airbus Says 2005 Orders Similar To Boeing  
User currently offlineKalakaua From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1516 posts, RR: 5
Posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8096 times:

Airbus says 2005 orders similar to those of Boeing
Friday 6 January 2006, 6:28am EST

Spokesman Rainer Ohler said the final tallies would be close, after a surge of business in December. "In terms of aircraft order intake, Airbus will be in a similar ballpark to its competitor," he said.

"In terms of orders, Airbus has positioned itself at about the same magnitude as our competitor," she said, adding that speculation about an order gap between the two companies was "misleading".

Reuters link


MSN Money link

[Edited 2006-01-06 16:47:23]


Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStratofortress From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 178 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8057 times:

Why can't they just tell us the freaking numbers? Hate PR spins.


Forever New Frontiers
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8024 times:

"Magnitude?" That just means that Airbus has sales closer to 1000 than 100.  Wink

As my good friend, Inigo Montoya would say, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8018 times:

Per Dow Jones Newswires (01/06/06):

"...But spokesman Rainer Ohler said the final tallies would be close, after a surge of business in December. "In terms of aircraft order intake, Airbus will be in a similar ballpark to its competitor," he said.

Ohler dismissed press reports that Airbus received about 800 orders, indicating that the total is considerably higher. "Suggestions of a significant gap are completely misleading," he said.

He declined to give the full-year figure or say whether it fell short of Boeing's total, but added: "December is always a busy month in our industry."


User currently offline11Bravo From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1718 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7887 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 3):
"In terms of aircraft order intake, Airbus will be in a similar ballpark to its competitor"

Dizzy, I’m so dizzy my head is spinning.
Like a whirlpool it never ends.

-Tommy Roe



WhaleJets Rule!
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7847 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 3):
"...But spokesman Rainer Ohler said the final tallies would be close, after a surge of business in December. "In terms of aircraft order intake, Airbus will be in a similar ballpark to its competitor," he said.

Ohler dismissed press reports that Airbus received about 800 orders, indicating that the total is considerably higher. "Suggestions of a significant gap are completely misleading," he said.

He declined to give the full-year figure or say whether it fell short of Boeing's total, but added: "December is always a busy month in our industry."

They would have looked better if they had been silent or very simply acknowledged the fact that they had a great year with no mention of Boeing.


User currently offlineAerobalance From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 4682 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7822 times:

Why is it that when I think of A & B, I think of a Jerry Sringer show?....


"Sing a song, play guitar, make it snappy..."
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7795 times:

It's frankly ridiculous for the 'spokesman' to suggest that they haven't counted up the figures yet. They must know EXACTLY how many orders were signed up by 31/12.

I'm afraid that one has to suspect that they are negotiating with some purchasers to persuade them to agree to back-dating the relevant documentation - just to make the 2005 total look better. Seems a bit pointless.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7778 times:

Well, a 100 of them were to IndiGo and we ain't seeing any signs of life on that front out where I live.


A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7777 times:

Quoting N79969 (Reply 5):
They would have looked better if they had been silent or very simply acknowledged the fact that they had a great year with no mention of Boeing.

I agree. The "dialogue" between the OEMs is beginning to resemble meanspirited candidates in a political campaign, rather than business competitors in a marketplace.


User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12566 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7750 times:
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Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):

I suspect under European law that would actually be illegal. But you couldn't resist could you? sarcastic 



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8278 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7727 times:

They would have been better just saying they had a record year and the largest backorder they have ever had. Apple doesn't compare their sales to MS and their stock is going through the roof.

User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7695 times:

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 9):
I agree. The "dialogue" between the OEMs is beginning to resemble meanspirited candidates in a political campaign, rather than business competitors in a marketplace.

What has Boeing said this year along these lines? I can only think of several things Airbus has said.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7667 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
It's frankly ridiculous for the 'spokesman' to suggest that they haven't counted up the figures yet. They must know EXACTLY how many orders were signed up by 31/12.

To me nothing he says suggests that at all - just simply that they arent releasing the figures at this moment, which is probably due to allowing EADS and BAe first look at the 2005 EOY information.

Its just business and they all behave differently.


User currently offlineN1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 560 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7645 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
I'm afraid that one has to suspect that they are negotiating with some purchasers to persuade them to agree to back-dating the relevant documentation - just to make the 2005 total look better.

Reminds me of legislatures that stop the clock to pass laws before a deadline.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 10):
I suspect under European law that would actually be illegal. But you couldn't resist could you?

Not to start a war, but who will take them to court if they do? Shareholders?

Considering there are only two shareholders in Airbus, I doubt EADS or BAE Systems would sue them.

And considering the political clout of EADS/AIRBUS/BAE Systems, I doubt any EU national financial watchdog/authority would take them on.

Anyhow congratulations to the entire industry for a great 2005!

-n1786b


User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7632 times:

Airbus will reveal the exact order number at Paris on Jan17th.
Some reports in the French newspapers say this number could be around 980.
Anyway very similar in NUMBER as Boeing , but in VALUE Boeing will be far ahead , having sold many more widebodies than Airbus.
Boeing has not yet revealed their delivery number , but Airbus will be ahead , thus making it still NUMBER 1.


User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7609 times:

Quoting N1786b (Reply 14):
Not to start a war, but who will take them to court if they do? Shareholders?

Considering there are only two shareholders in Airbus, I doubt EADS or BAE Systems would sue them.

Yes, but EADS and BAe are beholden to their shareholders, and several EADS shareholders have shareholders of their own.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12566 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7572 times:
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Quoting N1786b (Reply 14):
Not to start a war, but who will take them to court if they do? Shareholders?

Ha! Don't worry, there are plenty of eurocrats who are always looking to justify their jobs who would just love to uncover illegal activities in such a company.

Anyway, the reason why it takes Airbus longer to tally than Boeing should be obvious to all. Us Europeans, and especially the French ones, have only just started to make their way back to work after the Christmas holiday, and there's lots to do - check our email, discuss all the football results, talk about which presents we really hated. On top of that, some pesky manager wants a report about plane sales figures. By next Friday! Zut alors!



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineToulouse From Switzerland, joined Apr 2005, 2758 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 7548 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
I'm afraid that one has to suspect that they are negotiating with some purchasers to persuade them to agree to back-dating the relevant documentation - just to make the 2005 total look better. Seems a bit pointless.

You don't REALLY believe that, do you NAV20??



Long live Aer Lingus!
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 37
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7519 times:

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 17):
Anyway, the reason why it takes Airbus longer to tally than Boeing should be obvious to all. Us Europeans, and especially the French ones, have only just started to make their way back to work after the Christmas holiday, and there's lots to do - check our email, discuss all the football results, talk about which presents we really hated. On top of that, some pesky manager wants a report about plane sales figures. By next Friday! Zut alors!

Of course in that case there shouldn't be any last minute orders to book as there was no one to take them.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7474 times:

Reuters has published a more comprehensive article:

"Boeing looks set to trump Airbus in 2005 orders"

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/news...C_0_UK-TRANSPORT-AIRBUS-BOEING.xml


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 35
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7449 times:

I've seen it done in other situations, Toulouse; though never had occasion to do it myself. There is always a gap between terms being agreed and documentation being drawn up - all it would need is a clause saying that the contract evidenced an 'agreement to agree' reached last calendar year, and Airbus could count it (for publicity purposes) as a 2005 order if they chose. The contract would still take legal effect from the date of signing, i.e. this year, so the legalities would not be affected.

Coming to prefer Scrimbl's holiday point, though - who wants to spend hours counting up all those boring documents at this time of year?



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineAstuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10031 posts, RR: 96
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7448 times:
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Quoting NAV20 (Reply 7):
I'm afraid that one has to suspect that they are negotiating with some purchasers to persuade them to agree to back-dating the relevant documentation - just to make the 2005 total look better.

A frankly ridiculous statement if ever I heard one

Quoting N79969 (Reply 5):
They would have looked better if they had been silent or very simply acknowledged the fact that they had a great year with no mention of Boeing.



Quoting Ken777 (Reply 11):
They would have been better just saying they had a record year and the largest backorder they have ever had. Apple doesn't compare their sales to MS and their stock is going through the roof.

Why? The questioner will have inevitably drawn out comparisons with Boeing, who have declared their figures much earlier. Why is "We'll be there or thereabouts - wait for the 17th Jan" such an issue? We're all delighted to spend (waste?) our time making such comparisons.
Imagine the response on here if Ohler had said "Airbus had a great year. Order Numbers? - I've NO COMMENT". The trolls would have been all over it like a rash.  Yeah sure

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 9):
The "dialogue" between the OEMs is beginning to resemble meanspirited candidates in a political campaign, rather than business competitors in a marketplace.

The only meanspirited thing I see here is that people don't have the grace to recognise that it's been an incredible year for Airbus orders as well, in the same way we all graciously acknowledged that it had been for Boeing.

Quoting N1786b (Reply 14):
Anyhow congratulations to the entire industry for a great 2005!

With one (one!) exception. Thanks N1786b.

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 10):
I suspect under European law that would actually be illegal. But you couldn't resist could you?



Quoting N1786b (Reply 14):
Not to start a war, but who will take them to court if they do? Shareholders

Not being funny, but a "spokesperson" won't announce the order figures at an ad-hoc interview. In the same way that Mulally announced the Boeing Figures, Humbert will announce the Airbus figures at a pre-arranged venue.
Don't ask my why it takes to the 17th to do so, but this frequently occurs in BAE Systems, where they will have a programme of briefing that leads up to the whole workforce being briefed at exactly the same time as the information is released to the press.

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 13):
Its just business and they all behave differently.

Sums it up, I suspect.


User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2818 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7373 times:

Airbus has a long way to go with order transparency. Boeing has a comprehensive order list available on their website updated regularly and easy to use. It's far superior for keeping track of things.

Can someone weight these orders in terms of payload? That would be a more accurate comparison, since we don't consider 1 A320 equal to 1 A380.

Note the language. The orders are "similar". I think whatever new orders they reveal, it won't close the gap completely else they would be saying they won.


User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7359 times:

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 22):

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 9):
The "dialogue" between the OEMs is beginning to resemble meanspirited candidates in a political campaign, rather than business competitors in a marketplace.

The only meanspirited thing I see here is that people don't have the grace to recognise that it's been an incredible year for Airbus orders as well, in the same way we all graciously acknowledged that it had been for Boeing.

I'm not sure I understand your point, but I'll stand behind my statement that the OEMs are rapidly adopting the P.R./spin strategies of politicians/political candidates.


25 RichardPrice : Boeing has public shareholders, Airbus doesnt. Big difference there. Airbus' shareholders get private reports on a weekly basis on current developmen
26 Areopagus : Why does it matter whether the contract was signed in December or January? If a big order couldn't put Airbus over the top for 2005 bragging rights, i
27 Post contains links and images Scbriml : I think he's referring to the fact that many of the clear Airbus fans here gave genuine congratulations to Boeing in this thread Boeing: 1002 Net Ord
28 Post contains images Boeing767-300 : Lets not take away from the fact that Airbus has had a great year as well. What they won't be happy about is the high proportion of widebodies in Boei
29 Post contains images Tifoso : Don't think it is right to arrive at that conclusion; Airbus may well have narrowly defeated Boeing. The spokesperson may well be building up suspens
30 Post contains links and images A319XFW : Speak for yourself.. Airbus Hamburg was working over the period around Christmas and New Years..... Couldn't have said it better! I wonder what would
31 RichardPrice : The question I have is - whats 2006 going to be like? With 2005 orders nearly tripling recent years orders, is it going to just be a statistical anomo
32 Post contains images Boeing Nut : Yea, if they're talking about Embraer or Bombardier. Yet another reason I can't stand Airbus the company. The airplanes though,
33 Post contains images Moparman : Let me see if I understand this thread correctly: This entire thread is based on fact that Airbus by their own admission does not know how many orders
34 Post contains images Scbriml : What do you mean?
35 Halls120 : Perhaps it is. But what fuels comments like these is the mystifying delay in releasing the figure. Come on, just how difficult is it to count your or
36 N79969 : Let me restate my point: They should have said, "we receive 9xx orders and had an outstanding year." By trying to downplay Boeing's success and perha
37 Leelaw : Just for the record, that's RichardPrice's quote from his Reply #25, not mine.
38 N328KF : I am not mean-spirited. I am a Boeing shareholder, and thus it is in my financial interest for Boeing to perform better than Airbus.
39 RichardPrice : Whoever said they have a fear of transparency? They have an order sheet on their website that is updated on a regular basis - I think thats good enou
40 Post contains images AerospaceFan : Hey, congrats to Airbus if they had a record year, too. I've flown on their planes and they seem solid, and although I like Boeing more than Airbus, t
41 BoomBoom : This is just typical Airbus withholding information and offering spin. Similar to: "The A380 fuel burn exceeds expeditions." "The A380 is within 1% of
42 GARPD : read: "We're scrambling to pen more orders down for the 2005 total"
43 BoomBoom : Maybe this is all taking place in a parallel universe where it's still 2005.
44 Slovacek747 : They may be in negotiation with airlines and have quite a few commitments but I'm pretty sure their total official orders dont come close to Boeing's
45 Post contains images A319XFW : What's spin on these two? First it was said that the breakeven point was 250ish and now it's been admitted that it has gone up. Well seeing as around
46 Post contains links Clickhappy : I find this comment alarming: The European manufacturer won't announce its final tally until mid-month, but it cannot match Boeing. http://seattletime
47 RichardPrice : Really? I read it as: Nothing more, nothing less. Look guys, Boeing got its final tally out before Airbus. Thats all. You have absolutely no proof of
48 Kalakaua : [Spokesman Ohler] declined to give the full-year figure or say whether it fell short of Chicago-based Boeing's total, but added: "December is always a
49 Post contains links BoomBoom : The problem with the breakeven numbers is that while one executive was claiming upwards of 300, another was sticking to 250. Upwards of 300 could be
50 Post contains images A319XFW : Yes, but customers change orders, delivery schedules, go bankrupt. Production aircraft have initial 'bugs' that need to be solved before going to the
51 Clickhappy : Either way, you have to agree with the statement that Boeing seems to offer a lot more information about their orders that is easier to get at and als
52 Grantcv : So if Airbus has called in a lot of favors to achieve a significant boost in orders in December, it what respect will they have robbed 2006 to only cl
53 BestWestern : So, BoomBoom, you quote an badly sourced thread where the author even states IIRC for the 773? Umm, a quality source, but sadly what I expect.
54 Post contains images A319XFW : Criticism from people on A.net? See What does it matter if it's on January 1st or 17th? A fixed date has been set when it will be announced. What mor
55 BestWestern : Last year was the 12th, so this year is three working days later..... 2004 was on the 15th... from the half dozen cheerleaders here.[Edited 2006-01-0
56 Atnight : As much as I enjoy and love Boeing for the great aircraft they make, I am getting sick of the lack of maturity and respect shown by its fans when it c
57 Vfw614 : If so, Boeing do it because they are a publicly traded stock corporation with certain legal duties owed to their shareholders, the SEC and the capita
58 Post contains links BoomBoom : This was on their website, but the link no longer works. http://www.airbus.com/airbus4u/articles_detail.asp?ae_id=84
59 Post contains links BoomBoom : Perhaps you will like this source better: The long hello http://www.flightinternational.com/A...5/05/03/197483/The+long+hello.html
60 Post contains images A319XFW : " target=_blank>http://www.airbus.com/airbus4u/artic...id=84 Ok, thanks - But that was for 6 months in 2002
61 Post contains images USAF336TFS : My thoughts exactly. I think they were getting too used to being in the spot light all the time.
62 BestWestern : So, where in that article does Airbus, or an airbus spokesperson state that: Because I cant see it... Maybe you can point it out to me. Oh, and whils
63 Post contains links Clickhappy : http://web.archive.org/web/200210150...bus4u/articles_detail.asp?ae_id=84 BestWestern is right, the article does not mention the 777. It looks like yo
64 Post contains images BestWestern : It looks like BoomBoom has posted something he made up ....
65 Post contains links Keesje : I think the media have been partying over the Boeing vs Airbus orders win for weeks. From April on a Boeing victory has been in the press. http://news
66 PlaneDane : How about this? Quoted from the above article: "....In spite of this, airlines operating both the A340 and competing aircraft report equal or better
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