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Could AS Use An East Coast Hub?  
User currently offlineJeffB From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 98 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3556 times:

Is there any chance that AS will start a hub on the east coast of the US? Wouldn't airports like IAD or PIT would seem like good places to start? I know that LAX is a mini-hub for AS.. and DCA is getting some flights. But why not make a main hub to work the east side of the country with SEA/LAX working the west?

Why would this be a bad idea for Alaska Airlines?


I think this was talked about some time ago. However, the field was much diffrent.

Thoughts?

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3529 times:

An east cost hub/focus city is probably not going to happen for AS. If anything, I can see them adding a focus city in the west (BOI? SLC?) but their strategy is to be conservative and feed their west coast/Pacific Northwest operation.

As far as expansion goes, look to see them in Hawaii and adding additional east coast points from SEA/PDX and maybe some addtional seasonal service from Alaska to the lower 48. However AS has a well-utilized fleet and Menzies keeps taking planes off-line with their bumps and mishaps. Regardless, they will need more aircraft before the expand anywhere. But I do not see them adding any sort of operation east of the Rockies that isn't a spoke from SEA/PDX/ANC.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31394 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3517 times:
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AS's strength is all the codeshares they have with everyone and their grandmother, which feeds their West Coast and Alaska operations.

AS' long-haul domestic flights are to hubs for CO and AA (BOS, MIA, DFW, EWR) and some selected non-stop routes with no codeshare competition (SEA-IAD/DCA).

If AS were to start an East Coast hub, they would risk a backlash from AA (who is already miffed AS now flies SEA-DFW against them) and CO. Also the sheer capital costs of starting new routes would hurt them, as they are already stretched pretty thin in many of their current ops.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3498 times:

AS is a West Coast Airline, they should stick with what is working instead of trying to suceed where others (US, FLYI etc) have failed.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9810 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3473 times:

AS is a very conservative airline. They have slowly grown since the 80s. They took the exact opposite track of HP. When America West boomed in the 80s it wanted to do amazing things like fly international and have a hub in the east. All that was successful in doing was bringing the airline into bankruptcy. The airline fortunately made a recovery and is now expansing into the east in a totally different way by merging/taking over another airline.

Alaska is not overzealous. It is slowly expanding, but relying on established routes and slowly building in small steps. LAX is a result of the success of the Mexican Riviera flights which were a key part to expansion in the 90s. In more recent years, transcontinental flights have been added slowly. AS looks like it will be looking into Hawaii and maybe more of Mexico and our neighbors to the south.

Opening up a hub in the east would be suicide. We have all seen from America West's failed Columbus hub and Independence Air's demise that it is a difficult thing to accomplish. For every success story like Airtran and jetBlue, there are more failures like ATA, Midway, America West's Columbus hub, Independence Air, Vanguard, and more. Going to the east coast is far riskier than the conservative management at AS is suited for. Although it would be nice to be able to see the eskimo expand its presence across the country, it won't be happening.

[Edited 2006-01-06 19:00:50]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineCentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3286 times:

Quoting JeffB (Thread starter):
Wouldn't airports like IAD or PIT would seem like good places to start? I know that LAX is a mini-hub for AS.. and DCA is getting some flights. But why not make a main hub to work the east side of the country with SEA/LAX working the west?

Hopefully they will begin a PIT-SEA flight soon now that US dropped the route. I flew that route many times with US and it was always full.



Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
User currently offlineMarkabcan From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 205 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3271 times:

It would make more sense to continue to expand in the west, with more transcontinental to the east. They are well known and have a reputation in the west! An eastern hub would also be looked down upon by many of its code sharing partners.

User currently offlineLemurs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1439 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3261 times:

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 5):
Hopefully they will begin a PIT-SEA flight soon now that US dropped the route. I flew that route many times with US and it was always full.

The problem in PIT is that they'd need someone to partner with. This is how they operate most of their transcons now, with the help of partner employees on the ground. Of course this is AS, so they could always just get chummy with someone else. They're like the popular girl in school: Everyone wants to get into their pants (read:customers) regardless of who else has been there before.  Smile



There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those that don't.
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5225 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3215 times:

Maybe AA should turn STL over to AS and keep the AA code on AS flights out of there.

Yeah, right.



The best IFE: A window seat and a good book.
User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3149 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 8):
Maybe AA should turn STL over to AS and keep the AA code on AS flights out of there.

Yeah, right.

Actually, why wouldn't that be such a bad idea. It would be central in the US, yet not east coast. Besides, there really is not other big western city open that already isn't a hub.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3118 times:

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 9):
Besides, there really is not other big western city open that already isn't a hub.

...I can think of one, actually, a couple.


User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3086 times:

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 10):
...I can think of one, actually, a couple.

Humm! Albuquerque maybe. Remember, I'm trying not to think of a coastal CA city or something close to a current Hub or Focus city. Seriously, I really can't. Is Kansas City (YX hub, no?), Oh, wait Okalhoma City maybe! Any others.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3072 times:

I can see Horizon building up BOI as a small focus city. It could serve as an additional gateway from the southwest/Pacific Coast to Montana, Idaho and Eastern Washington. However, as you can imagine, the O&D would be limited.

Aside from that, I don't expect to AS making any new hubs/focus cities anytime soon. In fact they have reduced mainline ops at PDX. LAX is often discussed on these boards as a potential site for increasing operations eastward, but given the competition at LAX it would be foolish for AS to make that kind of an expansion. They operate the sole LAXDCA flight due to winning the beyond-perimeter authority from TWA after AA acquired them. However if that particular market were to open up expect to see AS cede LAXDCA to UA or AA.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3060 times:

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 11):
I'm trying not to think of a coastal CA city or something close to a current Hub or Focus city. Seriously, I really can't. Is Kansas City (YX hub, no?), Oh, wait Okalhoma City maybe! Any others.

*slap*  mad 


User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2995 times:

ConcordeBoy

Duh!!!!!  Embarrassment OK OK OK you got me.  ashamed  It was one of my moments. At the risk of offending anybody, - my hair is a certain color, only dirty. I can't believe it. Of course, but how ironic could it be to have Alaska hubed in one of Americas hottest and most humid city. Actually, would be great. But being a Miami-an, to me your airport would be considered an east coast hub. By the way, that is a compliment. So how can we start the petition bring Alaska to MSY now!!!!!  scratchchin   bouncy 


User currently offlineSlcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2942 times:

Alaska Airlines having a hub in one of Americas hottest and wickedly humid cities would be great irony. I love it.

That eskimo would look rediulously funny on the tails of all those planes if MSY was a hub for alaska airlines

The eskimos would melt in New Orleans. what about the health risks?


User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2912 times:

Quoting Slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 15):
That eskimo would look rediulously funny on the tails of all those planes if MSY was a hub for alaska airlines

Maybe the planes based at MSY could still have an Eskimo, but in a Mardi Gras or Carnival outfit instead of a Parka. We could beed him up and paint his face. WOuld definately give F9 a run for their money on most original paint scheme. Any other ideas?

 rotfl 


User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2901 times:

What if they merged with CO? AS with its high west coast presence, and CO in the east/midwest. The routes would complement each other well. If CO dropped their 735's and AS dropped the MD80s the fleets would go together well(733/734/73G/738/739). AS would would have to keep a few 732's for its AK routes.

User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4):
AS looks like it will be looking into Hawaii and maybe more of Mexico and our neighbors to the south.

So a possible expansion into Central America could be on the table as well, right? Even though they'd have to compete against CO and AA, who dominate that market out of the US. But maybe after UA dropping LAX-GUA-SJO, and AA only flying seasonal service to SJO out of LAX (and their year round service out of MIA and DFW), AS could take over those flights if they get the rights. Those 737NGs could make the distance all the way.


User currently offlineCentPIT From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 990 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2737 times:

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 7):
The problem in PIT is that they'd need someone to partner with. This is how they operate most of their transcons now, with the help of partner employees on the ground. Of course this is AS, so they could always just get chummy with someone else. They're like the popular girl in school: Everyone wants to get into their pants (read:customers) regardless of who else has been there before.

If Alaska really wanted to operate the route then they could find a partner. Who do they partner with at IAD and EWR? I am sure that one of those carriers are in Pittsburgh. I do understand what you are saying however.

[Edited 2006-01-07 23:43:08]

[Edited 2006-01-07 23:43:41]


Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
User currently offlineChugach From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2736 times:

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 19):
Who do they partner with at IAD and EWR?

They have a codeshare/FF agreement with CO, which I would suspect results in a fair amount of feed from EWR. I think CO also does their ground-handling at DFW, as AA got its panties in a wad when they started SEA-DFW. Which is strange, as AA DOES do their ground handling at ORD, seemingly without issue.



GO ROCKETS
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2712 times:

Quoting Slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 15):
what about the health risks?

...of?


User currently offlineWillbdsp From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2697 times:

AA used to handle the ground ops for both TZ and HP (premerger). I'm sure they could handle AS ops in PIT.

User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3350 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2690 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 4):
Vanguard

Wasn't Vanguard MCI based? That would put them in the Mid West, not the East Coast.

AAndrew


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3509 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2666 times:

Quoting Chugach (Reply 20):
AA got its panties in a wad when they started SEA-DFW.

I would think they'd be more ticked off about AS putting up three daily flights to ORD vs AA's four than two to DFW vs AA's nine. In any case, I don't think AS has much to gain with an east coast hub. They've been successful focusing on careful growth on the west coast, and as has been pointed out, they already get good east coast feed by codesharing with almost every legacy in the country. It'll be interesting to see if they expand their east coast non-stop service when the new 738s start coming in this year.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
25 Juanchito : UAL dropped the SJO leg not GUA It would be nice to see AS here in Guatemala juanchito
26 Suv : [quote=BigGSFO,reply=12]I can see Horizon building up BOI as a small focus city. It could serve as an additional gateway from the southwest/Pacific Co
27 Blackhawk144 : Yes, but Boise has grown tremendously since then. Anthony
28 AirStatDFW : They codeshare with DL on the DFW-SEA and Service Air does there ground handling. I do see a lot of people get off the plane and get on skylink and g
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