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Woman Dies On America West #29  
User currently offline747LUVR From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 394 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14657 times:

Just read that a 45 y/o woman died on America West flight 29 CLE-PHX and that a Dr. aboard performed CPR for 1/2 hour with an emergency stop in Colorado Springs.

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14573 times:

My neighbor ramper for United at Dulles says that this does happen occasionally. Usually they are not newsworthy and don't end up on the news. Natural causes, elderly travellers, etc...it's bound to happen in flight every now and then.

User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14530 times:

Any word on the cause of death?

My sincere condolences to the family of that woman. May she rest in peace.  Sad


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 14215 times:

Glad I have never been on a flight where this type of thing happened. My condolences to the family.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineWarreng24 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13876 times:

How does that work legally? I mean, are doctors on board an aircraft legally obligated to help in such a situation?

If I was a doctor, I would be afraid of being sued by the family if I wasn't able to do CPR correctly.


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 31
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13830 times:

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 5):
If I was a doctor, I would be afraid of being sued by the family if I wasn't able to do CPR correctly.

the good semeritan law protects those who perform such techniques, so long as they are done to the best of ones ability as long as they can until either a)somone else continues or b)professionals arrive.



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineTimology From Netherlands, joined Jan 2006, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13821 times:

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 5):
If I was a doctor, I would be afraid of being sued by the family if I wasn't able to do CPR correctly.

If there would be no doctor or what so ever on board, then the person would've died anyway. The family should be thankful for your effort of trying to help this person. But then again, it would be The States..



"Arm in arm we are the harmless sociopaths"
User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13820 times:

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 5):
How does that work legally? I mean, are doctors on board an aircraft legally obligated to help in such a situation?

If I was a doctor, I would be afraid of being sued by the family if I wasn't able to do CPR correctly.

First, if you weren't able to do CPR correctly, how would you be a doctor?

Second, the law protects private citizens who offer/render aid and assistance during an emergency from liability.

Travis


User currently offlineJBird From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 13743 times:

Actually, doctors are not covered under the good Samaritan laws. I have several friends that are doctors that will not go near an accident scene. They are still liable for their actions even though they do not have the tools of their trade available to them. Unfortunately, it is their career and insurance rates that are at stake. Personal injury attorneys have had a profound affect on normal human compassion.

Jbird


User currently offlineHighpeaklad From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 538 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13678 times:

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 5):
How does that work legally? I mean, are doctors on board an aircraft legally obligated to help in such a situation?

In the UK a doctor would never be successfully sued as long as they were doing their best. Remember if they are not breathing then they will die so whatever you do to them can't leave them worse off than when you found them.

I believe in France there is a law that says you will be prosecuted if you DON'T give help.

Cultural differences !

Chris



Don't try to keep up with the Joneses - bring them down to your level !
User currently offlineFlyingDoctorWu From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13649 times:

Quoting Travatl (Reply 8):
First, if you weren't able to do CPR correctly, how would you be a doctor?

Trust me- there are a lot of doctors who can't perform CPR correctly....

Radiologist, Dermatologists, Opthamologists, Orthopedists for example

Chris (anesthesiologist)


User currently offlineRlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1075 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13574 times:

Quoting JBird (Reply 9):
I have several friends that are doctors that will not go near an accident scene. They are still liable for their actions even though they do not have the tools of their trade available to them.

Would not that go against the Hippocratic Oath?



I can drive faster than you
User currently offlineMidex461 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13434 times:

As bicoastal said, this does happen occasionally on aircraft. However, what I heard was that the doctors will wait to pronounce until after he/she is off the plane, mainly as a courtesy. Otherwise the plane becomes a biohazard and has to be quarantined.


Opinions and views expressed are MINE and do NOT represent the views of US Airways
User currently offlineGilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13250 times:

Quoting Midex461 (Reply 13):
However, what I heard was that the doctors will wait to pronounce until after he/she is off the plane, mainly as a courtesy. Otherwise the plane becomes a biohazard and has to be quarantined.

That's right, no one ever dies "on the plane". They expire on the jetway.


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 13210 times:

Quoting 747LUVR (Thread starter):
Just read that a 45 y/o woman died on America West flight 29 CLE-PHX and that a Dr. aboard performed CPR for 1/2 hour with an emergency stop in Colorado Springs.

It was mentioned very briefly on the morning news I watch (WJW-TV/Fox 8 Cleveland -- I can see their studio from my appartment, and they use shots of my appartment building [usually] several times a day during weather segments)...

Kinda delivered as a "Thanks for that diet story, Kenny, oh, and by the way a woman died on America West Flight 29 from Cleveland. That's too bad. We'll be right back with traffic after this." -- I was a little suprised they didn't provide something additional

Quoting Piercey (Reply 1):
On the bright side, at least CLE is in the news for once

Ok, so I don't feel so bad for having the exact same though  Smile

Quoting Warreng24 (Reply 5):
How does that work legally? I mean, are doctors on board an aircraft legally obligated to help in such a situation?

If I was a doctor, I would be afraid of being sued by the family if I wasn't able to do CPR correctly.

No. Doctors are not legally required to offer their services

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 6):
the good semeritan law protects those who perform such techniques, so long as they are done to the best of ones ability as long as they can until either a)somone else continues or b)professionals arrive.

The Good Samaritan laws do not protect professionals (i.e. doctors, RNs, EMTs) from liability, just lay people who do their best until releived by a professional.

This was discussed a little bit in response to questions I asked in my "When Is The Decision Made To Divert For A Medical?" thread (where a medical professional ended up reviving someone on one of my Christmas day flights): When Is The Decision Made To Divert For A Medical? (by Lincoln Dec 25 2005 in Civil Aviation)



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineBrokenrecord From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 13200 times:

Doctors are not legally obligated, but I believe that Hipocratic Oath that nurses and doctors take somewhat binds them to helping others.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 13157 times:

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 15):
That's right, no one ever dies "on the plane". They expire on the jetway.

I had one expire on the flight once. It was a late-night SLC-PDX flight, and the elderly pax had just been released from a cancer hospice in SLC, and her daughter was essentially taking her home to PDX to die. About halfway there, she slipped away, and there was a doctor aboard who confirmed it. She also had a DNR order. There were not many people on the flight, and some were moved to give them some privacy for the remainder of the flight.

Rather than divert to BOI or GEG and leave them in a strange city not knowing anyone there, we continued to PDX (only a few minutes more flying time than a diversion), and took care of everything there. The station folks did an outstanding job, both as far as the emotional support aspects, as well as the logistical ones. The aircraft was terminating for the night, and it made scheduled departure in the morning.


User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 13138 times:

Quoting Highpeaklad (Reply 10):
Cultural differences !

It's that collective sense of greed that is destroying the moral fabric of the United States - not even Rome lasted forever.

Quoting Brokenrecord (Reply 17):
Doctors are not legally obligated, but I believe that Hipocratic Oath that nurses and doctors take somewhat binds them to helping others.

The Doctor's Hypocratic Oath is a hypocritical joke! There are no ethics in business any more and health care in the US has turned into a business just like your local Jiffy Lube looking to change your car's vital fulids.


User currently offlineGilligan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 13134 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 18):
and it made scheduled departure in the morning.

They were able to take care of the quarantine issues overnight?


User currently offlineJumbojet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 12944 times:

if a passenger expires on the airplane, I would imagine once the plane lands they remove the body and its affects immediately. usually, a body that expires in a public place requires the precense of local law enforcment and detectives, EMT's to pronounce a DOA time and the local ME's office to remove the body, thus possibly tying up the aircraft for several hours. I would imagine this process is bypassed.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 12904 times:

Quoting Gilligan (Reply 20):
They were able to take care of the quarantine issues overnight?

I don't recall any specific "quarantine" issues per se, but whatever the medical examiner needed to do on-site was able to get done without delaying the flight the next morning... Airlines have access to 24x7 biohazard remediation...


User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4697 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 12715 times:
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Quoting JBird (Reply 9):
Actually, doctors are not covered under the good Samaritan laws.

yes they are , or at least in most of the 50 states. its not that they would ever likely be successfully sued under such circumstances, its just that the stupid tort system would allow such a dumb suit to go forward till it gets thrown out or the plaintiff loses.
I have a relative who does medical legal defense cases, he has seen suits where the plaintiffs attorney hasn't even seen the medical record when the suit is filed and call him up to find out what the case is all about! or cases where the there have been outright forgeries of affadavits saying there was sufficient cause for a case to be filed. Frivolous suits are unfortunately very common and the tort system in the US only benefits lawyers on both sides, not the plaintiff or the defendant.


User currently offlineDeltaGuy767 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 660 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12495 times:

Quoting FlyingDoctorWu (Reply 10):
Radiologist, Dermatologists, Opthamologists, Orthopedists for example

I'm afraid I will have to correct you here. My father is an Opthamologist and as per the guidelines set by the Mass. Board of Health he must undergo CPR training and stay current which he does. Anyway my condolences for the woman's family  frown 

From BDL,
DeltaGuy767



A Good Landing is one you walk away from!
User currently offlineAeroTycoon From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12062 times:

When people expire on flights often times the airplane will continue to its intended destination.

If someone is found dead and gone (when it is apparent that they have been dead for awhile) they are left in their seat, covered by a blanket (another reason not to use airline blankets!).

Another thing... when flight crews make an announcement requesting the services of a doctor and someone materializes, they are mandated to ask for medical identification. The reasons for this are fairly obvious.


User currently offline757223 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12005 times:

I take it America West did not have an AED (Automated External Defibrillator) onboard? I'm not sure which airlines stock them in their aircraft. I believe AA does.


A/C Flown: 727,737,747,757,767,777,A319/320,MD-80,DC-9,DC-10,L-1011,BAC-111,F-100,CRJ-200/700,EMB-135/140/145,SF-340
25 Post contains images YOWza : When I was at LHR T3 last year an elderly gentleman passed out right in front of me (which should give you an idea of how long the walk to the gates c
26 Lincoln : I'm pretty sure CO does as well. Or at least, when there was the medical issue I liked to above, at one point the FA stopped by my row and mentioned
27 TAM1079 : Tasteless and PETTY!! You are an a$$ for even mentioning it. RIP to the woman.
28 Jdwfloyd : People tend not to die on board A/C. It is a unspoken rule that you wait till the person is off the A/C before they are pronounced dead. If you pronou
29 Pilotpip : Those airplanes are still operating on America West's certificate. Tasteless attempt to be cool and all you did is make an ass of yourself. Aside from
30 D L X : A doctor that can't do CPR? Ut-oh... At common law, no matter who you are, you have no duty to assist, and if you DO choose to assist, you are liable
31 Uadc8contrail : dont work for hp...but...do know she was taking morphine and got a little carried away with it....legal or illegal in this situation. my prayers go ou
32 HAL : Most airlines now have what is called 'Medlink'. We call our operations office over the radio and they do a telephone hookup for us to a doctor who is
33 HPnonrev99 : Correct me if I'm wrong, and I know you all will, but doesn't a coroner have to pronounce the death. (In this case it was done in the boarding area,
34 Nycfuturepilot : Depends on the state, in NJ there is no obligation to but in NY there is an obligation. Airways are federally regulated and im not sure if there is a
35 BrazilExPat : I'm a flight attendant for Southwest and I know that we are responsible for providing CPR for however long it takes us to get on the ground and have t
36 Iowaman : Great definition of good sam law: "Any person who, in good faith, renders emergency medical care or assistance to an injured person at the scene of an
37 Davejwatts : I have heard cases where people have sued after being brought back, as they 'claimed' they didn't want to be resuscitated and this actually stood up i
38 Vegas005 : A physician is ethically required to render assistance. Ironically, the physician is not generally protected from the threats and the realities of mal
39 Trex8 : Shows you aren't actually in practise yet or at least in IL! yes, it costs money, about 350 bucks in Cook County, IL to file a case, after which the
40 OPNLguy : As far as legalities go, I couldn't tell you. All I can say (with specific reference to the flight/situation I mentioned) is that the lady passed awa
41 TheSorcerer : Same in Germany, it's called unterlassende Hilfe stellung I think (sorry my German isn't very good anymore). Dominic
42 Lincoln : The question, in this case (and correct me if I'm wrong, I'm certainly not a lawyer- I just spend enough time reading stuff in Lexis to be dangerous)
43 Daron4000 : I know UA stocks AED's, because on a DEN-ORD 777 flight, I looked back and saw a sign pointing to where it was stored.
44 Bond007 : Lawyers accept frivolous law suits because they believe they will WIN the case. If the lawyer didn't think they could win the case, there wouldn't be
45 Post contains links MarkHKG : If there is one flight attendant aboard, an AED must be provided to meet FAA regulations. Commuter aircraft are exempt. http://www.early-defib.org/new
46 FlyingDoctorWu : How often are the AEDs tested? Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Not at all? Our defibrillators/crash carts at the hospital are checked each shift (and are use
47 Post contains links OPNLguy : Here's a list of what is... http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...e=14:2.0.1.4.19.26.11.5.46&idno=14
48 D L X : But defense attorney do not bring suits! Plaintiff's attorneys do. And if the suit is frivolous, no plaintiff attorney will file it. if this stat is
49 Post contains images Thegooddoctor : This is absolutely incorrect. I work in healthcare and I've "been there, done that" with the good samaritan law. If you have doctor friends who stay
50 HS748 : Only in America!
51 GodBless : Is that the point where one can say that a nation has become sick?!? I prefer the law where you can get sued for NOT helping! Max
52 AsstChiefMark : Good God, people! For a medical professional to be successfully sued, all of these four elements must be proved: 1. There was a duty to act. 2. There
53 LTBEWR : As noted previously, a medical Doctor while they may know the basics of trying to revive a person whom may have had a heart attack, but their practice
54 D L X : The only thing I'd add is that if you start working on a person, the duty element is satisfied.
55 ABfemme : Yeah me too
56 AirCop : My brother was an officer with the Airport Police at SFO in the early 80's and he told me a couple of times a month on the red-eyes from Hawaii, they
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