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Overhaul Of British Airways CitiExpress On The Way  
User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5969 times:

BA will shortly announce a complete overhaul of BA CitiExpress, which operates flights to Europe from Birmingham, Manchester, Bristol and Edinburgh.
The full article is available below, but to sum up:
*British Airways will next week launch a major challenge to the no-frills carriers with a radical overhaul of its regional network, which will see fares to Europe slashed to as little as £25 one-way.

*In a significant strategic move by new chief executive Willie Walsh, the airline will rebrand its loss-making BA CitiExpress network, flying from 14 UK regional airports, and introduce a single-class cabin throughout the aircraft.

*The Club Europe cabin for business travellers will be axed on all short-haul European flights to and from BA's regional airports. Only European flights to and from Heathrow and Gatwick will retain the more upmarket Club Europe cabin. BA will continue serving food on all flights.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/mai...t=/money/2006/01/07/ixcitytop.html

So what do you make of it? Single class operation with free food still being served?

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAcelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 857 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5930 times:

Wish BA had kept the A319's at BHX and the 737's at MAN, I hated
flying on the 146's when I lived in the UK. Anyway with some of the
146's going to Swiss how will they cover the gap?
Good Luck to BA anyway!

cheers
AceLanzarote



from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlineGLAGAZ From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2004, 1983 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 5920 times:

A certain Mr. Kirk mentioned BACX starting GLA-CDG,FRA and AMS. But somehow I don't think I believe him =)

Gaz



Neutrality means that u don't really care cos the struggle goes on even when ur not there, blind and unaware
User currently offlineCapital146 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2125 posts, RR: 43
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5800 times:

In my opinion, a carrier operating a mix of Dash8's/ERJ145's/RJ100's will still not be able to compete in operational costs to the LCC's which operate simplified and more cost-effective fleets.

Lower fares may well attract more bums on seats, but if the overheads are still high then where will the profits come from?

For a similar price I think many people would choose the reassurance of BA over a Lo-co, but how is this going to make money for BA?



Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
User currently offlineCKT789 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5783 times:

I thought the Dash 8's were being phased out?

User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24964 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5780 times:

Quoting GLAGAZ (Reply 2):
A certain Mr. Kirk mentioned BACX starting GLA-CDG,FRA and AMS. But somehow I don't think I believe him =)

 Wink
Your easily wound up



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2569 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5779 times:

I think that this is a good strategy. Put more seats on the planes by axing club, and hopefully the losses will turn into profits (however modest).

Lower fares to increase the volume, but I imagine that only for off peak.
Great that they keep the food service. That will be a distinguishing factor.


User currently offlineCapital146 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2125 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5753 times:

Quoting CKT789 (Reply 4):
I thought the Dash 8's were being phased out?

I understand that the Dash 8's have had their leases extended, so will be around for a while yet.

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 6):
I think that this is a good strategy. Put more seats on the planes by axing club, and hopefully the losses will turn into profits (however modest).

But if the overheads are still high (mixed, LCC-unfriendly fleet, no staff cutbacks) I still don't see the full picture on how the operation will become profitable. If they are losing a reported £30M per year with CitiExpress, then it is going to take a huge upturn in passenger numbers to offset this, together with having to operate a fleet which is not suited to low-cost operations, plus the loss of premium passengers. I want it to work, but I just can't see how it adds up with the information provided so far.



Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2103 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5737 times:

Lets wait for the announcement before we comment too much here. Sounds like BA is moving in the right direction with CitiExpress, and it's got to be better than any move which would threaten the rump of the regional operation. Although the Telegraph article doesn't mention it maybe something will be announced about fleet simplification. I'm sure Walsh, who saw the introduction of the A320s at EI and a move to a single class operation there, might look at simplfying the fleet around two types, say the ERJ-145s and something like the ERJ-170 or ERJ-190.

Two things I'll be interested to see when we get the full announcement. Firstly, what will happen to LCY, where there must surely be a demand for Club Europe, and which is operated by CitiExpress? Secondly, is GB Airways to maintain Club Europe on its routes from MAN with the A320s, or will it follow the CitiExpress lead and only offer Euro Traveller?



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineGSM763 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5725 times:

It seems a good idea but as we saw with Independence Air RJs have high seat per mile costs. There are also legacy factors to be taken into account. BA is swamped by union agreements made decades ago which mean it could never cut it's costs to that of the likes of easyjet without firing every staff member and starting again.

User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5717 times:

Glad to see food will remain. Petty as it sounds, it sets BA abive the competitors, and is why I choose BA over lo-co's.

Wonder what will happen to the Terraces lounge at MAN?



No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2103 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5710 times:

Terraces lounge would still be available for passengers on the MAN-JFK flight (Plus AA's MAN-ORD), as well as passengers travelling down to LHR or LGW to connect onto Club and First flights. Add on the Gold and Silver Executive Club members and still a use for the lounge.


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineGayrugbyMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1737 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5700 times:

And dont forget from April, BA will be shring their termoinal at MAN with BD longhaul, European and all BMIBaby services!

User currently offlineDavidT From Switzerland, joined Oct 2005, 477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5689 times:

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 10):
Wonder what will happen to the Terraces lounge at MAN?

I hope nothing, its fantastic  Sad

Damn. I can't believe CE is being axed. How are businessmen meant to fly from MAN to the continent and collect BA miles without having to go through Hellthrow?  Sad


User currently offlineGayrugbyMAN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 1737 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5665 times:

Forget your miles and go with:

LH, AF, KL, OK, SN, LX, AZ, SK...! Give BA the big FO!! I shan;t be using them for much if they scrap Club Europe, as it is I pay nearly £300 for an economy return to Belfast, and I was disgusted to receive no hot drinks and a Special K cereal bar last week on an early flight! Disgusting!


User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2103 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5660 times:

Quoting GayrugbyMAN (Reply 14):
Forget your miles and go with:

LH, AF, KL, OK, SN, LX, AZ, SK...! Give BA the big FO!! I shan;t be using them for much if they scrap Club Europe, as it is I pay nearly £300 for an economy return to Belfast, and I was disgusted to receive no hot drinks and a Special K cereal bar last week on an early flight! Disgusting!

Fly Jet2 then and buy your cereal bar.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineCapital146 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2125 posts, RR: 43
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5651 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 15):
Fly Jet2 then and buy your cereal bar.

Well, technically speaking, it's FlyBe that offers the competition on MAN-BHD.  Wink



Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5626 times:

The removal of the J cabin aint that bad. I had the best seat on the plane when i flew Y class MAN FRA good leg room, exit row. Only diff from the 2 cabins is the food so its no real loss.

User currently offlineRdwootty From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 905 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5603 times:

BHX has a great terraces lounge now to be closed?OR let the airport run it like MAN at terminal 2?? My clients like to pay for the extra baggage and large carry on not just the seats and meals..and flexibility so who will take it over Monarch

User currently offlineTheSorcerer From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 1048 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5586 times:

Quoting DavidT (Reply 13):
Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 10):
Wonder what will happen to the Terraces lounge at MAN?

I hope nothing, its fantastic

Yup, i had my pockets stuffed full with biscuits and cans of coke when i walked out last time  Big grin.
Dominic



ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
User currently offlineEurohub From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5534 times:

I think this sounds like a good move. Better fares from BHX to Europe would encourage me to fly BA much more often than my travel budget allows at their current fares.

In my experience (BHX-STR), the Club Europe cabin is invariably empty and more often than not, Y loads seem to struggle to reach 50%. I don't know whether this is representative of the other BHX routes, of course.



Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7302 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5437 times:

Expect BA regional to look exactly like what Aer Lingus does today - I expect to see a major change in fleet, routes and airports.

Quoting GayrugbyMAN (Reply 14):
as it is I pay nearly £300 for an economy return to Belfast

More fool you - book early, or fly from Liverpool.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineFbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3713 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 5395 times:

Can't see the sense in scrapping CE. The extra revenue gained from even a handful of seats with minimal extra operating cost for the airline would surely make it wortwhile keeping.

After all the lounges will surely remain in place both at the UK end and European, as will check-in desks etc.



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5263 times:

Quoting Fbgdavidson (Reply 22):
Can't see the sense in scrapping CE. The extra revenue gained from even a handful of seats with minimal extra operating cost for the airline would surely make it wortwhile keeping.

I'd have thought so, too. Considering the fares in CE for MAN-DUS were more than twice what I paid in Y, when all you get extra on the flight is a little more food! OK, so you get Terraces access as well, but as the lounge is open anyway it costs BA no more for an extra passenger other than a few coffee's, biscuits and snacks.



No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5259 times:

Rumour on PPRUNE that aicraft operating for BA CitiExpress will get a new livery!
Apparently all staff have been given a postcard from the Managing Director which has a picture of a gift-wrapped BAe145 with the words "all will be revealed".
New name and new livery on the way I think.


25 PM : New planes too, by the sound of it. Can't wait to see a BAe 145!
26 Post contains images Mhodgson : ERJ-145 or BAe-146?
27 Post contains images Concorde001 : Ooops! Getting carried away by the excitement that is BA CitiExpress!
28 PM : Tu-144? An-148? HS-141?!
29 FlyCaledonian : Why a new livery and name? Could simply be a way of letting the staff know that all will be revealed about the simplification of the CitiExpress oper
30 VV701 : I believe that at least originally only five of the RJ100s were designated to operate from LCY, namely G-CFAA, 'AB, 'AE, 'AF and 'AH. I do not know i
31 Concorde001 : You might be right - but I remember in Nov someone published on PPRUNE certain company names that had been registered in Birmingham. There were sever
32 Aerokiwi : I would expect the ERJ145s to depart and be replaced with D8-400s, which are proving to be excellent in FlyBE ops and appear well suited to the low co
33 ZSOFN : As a Bristol resident I welcome this move. EZY have a very strong footing at BRS and they also seem to be expanding into some of the business destinat
34 ZSOFN : Unfortunately, that makes sense. Flybe have indeed had success with their Dash 8s and the ERJ145s must cost a fortune. I just hope they don't disappe
35 Orion737 : BA Citiexpress already offers a far worse product that BA mainline, so heaven knows what this latest reincarnation will bring. I used to fly MAN-NCE w
36 BA757 : I thought the DH8 was an incredibly cheap aircraft to operate, fuel efficient etc... I read that on here somewhere, if thats true, why would any airl
37 Yak97 : I don't think that you would see Dash8-400Q's in BA service. Their whole plan seems to be to get rid of propellor aircraft, as not presenting the righ
38 Eurohub : I don't know about a new livery, but a new name would give the BA Press and Marketing departments something meaty to sink their teeth into and IMO wo
39 Georgiabill : Just curious with Ryan Air and Easy Jet serving routes from Scotland,how big of a market is it, not to mention flag carriers and LCC'S like Sky!
40 Mhodgson : Could just be protectionism, in the way U2 have already registered easyAtlantic.
41 Post contains images Skidmarks : They are still negotiating the lease extensions. So, we are still operating them (apart from YW which would seem to be a candidate for gate guardian
42 Post contains images 7LBAC111 : BA Red is the internal 'project name' for the rebranding. The eventually reborn carrier will likely bare no resembalnce to the BA Red name. 7LBAC111
43 Crosscountry : I heard BA Connect Saw the press release the telegraph got. I was under the impression they were going over to Buy On Board with free food and seat re
44 Bhxforever : Citiexpress Club Europe flights are no longer bookable on BA.com
45 Rdwootty : I say the best aircraft for BHX is a Viscount, cheap,slow , bags of room between seats and in correct config there would be 45 seast just about right
46 Goinv : Try BA CitiExpress from Inverness to Gatwick. Early morning departures serve Bacon/Sausage/Egg/Hash Brown/Tomato with Tea/Coffee/Orange Juice Evening
47 Eurohub : I have just received this in an Email from BA announcing the new "BA Connect"... -- BA Connect, a new streamlined service offering customers great val
48 Post contains links and images Fbgdavidson : BA Connect website
49 Post contains links Concorde001 : Bacx To Become BA Connect (by Skidmarks Jan 10 2006 in Civil Aviation)
50 Crosscountry : What did I say? BA Connect...buy on board? My mole was right on the button!
51 Post contains images DavidT : Would it really be that much of a problem to offer 2-2 seating on the first couple of rows and charge a higher price? Obviously BA are trying to get p
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