UAORD2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 268 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 15162 times:
I'm usually not one to pay any attention to rumors but I've never heard so many people talk about it before. I don't mean to stir things up but i was wondering if anyone could shed a little light. Merger?!?!?!?!?
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4139 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 14829 times:
Quoting OOer (Reply 8): Launch customer for the A350 and/or the 747-800?
The A350 doesn't do a very good job of replacing 767s, and is too big to be used next to the 777 (which UA isn't getting rid of anytime soon). I don't understand why people think UA will fly A350s, the 787 makes more sense in their fleet than in any other airline's (besides DL maybe).
748 is possible, but probably not until later. A 787 announcement is very possible, although I'd expect it later in the year, if this year at all.
LTU932 From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2006, 14296 posts, RR: 47
Reply 13, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 14717 times:
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 5): You guys just won't let it go...well, UA isn't going anywhere in the short term except out of the bankruptcy court. GET OVER IT!
It's sad that facts are being overlooked, but I do agree fully with you, Scott. Welcome to my respected user's list!
UA is coming out from BK and that's a FACT. The creditors have approved their plan and a confirmation hearing is set for this month. So, UA is nowhere near liquidation, and that's a well known FACT. Though I guess this big announcement could be a potential aircraft order. Who knows what the future of the post Chapter 11-UA will have in store.
Georgetown From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 288 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11902 times:
It'll be UA coming out of bankruptcy. From a strictly financial standpoint, this will be the biggest news the industry as seen in a while, as it will have a rather interesting short to medium effect on the industry in aggregate in the markets. Also, for those who sit behind the desks in the airline industry, no news could be bigger - cabin upgrades, although probably more interesting for us aviation enthusiasts, is realtivly minor news in the context of wider business news.
Also - and trust me, this is what I do for a living - a merger would have leaked a while ago. Honestly, you can tell when something like that is going to happen simply by observing the stock of an individual airline or airlines in relation to the industry - the market catches everything.
On a more important note: GEORGETOWN v. ST. JOHNS, TONIGHT, MSG. HOYA SAXA!
Georgetown From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 288 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11522 times:
Cory, I think you're hitting on the fact that there is a good chance of some sort of partnership between UA and CO in the coming years. Generally speaking though, when CEO chatter occurs, its like a "mating call." It means the cards have been placed on the table, and hopefully someone else will pick up one of the hands. When a merger/partnership/business agreement is immenent, CEOs will get quiet or run the risk of getting all sides of a deal in trouble.
Check out CO in the markets http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=CAL While they've had a hell of a run in the last 52 weeks, it has been relativly stable, with the rise in value appearing to correlate directly to performance versus the rest of the industry. A telltale sign of a pending agreement is a large volume of shares trading over a period of a few days with no news to account for it. If you click around in yahoo finance or bloomberg, you will find that there are a few days where a large volume of shares changed hands, but it was directly related to the filing of financial reports (10-Q's, 8-K's) or analyst opinion. That being said, if you catch something I didn't, let me know!
If CO and UA do make some sort of announcement, next beer's on me. I'm guessing though, that that is something we'll see in the near future. I'm sticking with the "exiting bankruptcy" story. Really not sexy at all, but my best guess.
FlyDreamliner From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2759 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11408 times:
I really doubt UA is going be buying A350s, seeing as they are one of Boeing's most consistant customers on longbodies. It was UA who laid down the specs for 777, heck, 737 having engines under the wings was to satisfy a UA requirement. I was mindblown when they bought 320s to start replacing their 737 fleet, but when they did this, 320 did blow the doors off 733. I could see them purchasing a dreamliner fleet, more when, not if. I'm sure feb. is just their exit from bankruptcy. I will admit to hating UA, they are almost as bad of an airline, both from a corporate and pax standpoint as NW. I'm not seeing a merger with CO, have you forgotten NWA and CO pseudo merged about 5 years back, when they did a large asset swap, and have been slowly integrating each others routemaps and networks since. I'm not seeing NW going for a merger with arch-rival UA. As far as legacy carriers go though, no one can compete with AA.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
Wah64d From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 966 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10945 times:
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 10): The A350 doesn't do a very good job of replacing 767s, and is too big to be used next to the 777 (which UA isn't getting rid of anytime soon). I don't understand why people think UA will fly A350s, the 787 makes more sense in their fleet than in any other airline's (besides DL maybe).
I think the 787 makes more sense to CO than anybody else. The aircraft suits their extensive marginal yield euro routes perfectly.
Why is it so unthinkable for United to order A350? Many of their European routes are a juggling game between 763 and 772. Wouldn't the A350 fit those routes pretty well?
Good luck to UA, they are a fine airline. I travelled LHR-SFO-DEN-LGA and JFK-LHR last year and had no complaints.
Alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4803 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10739 times:
Quoting Wah64d (Reply 22): I think the 787 makes more sense to CO than anybody else. The aircraft suits their extensive marginal yield euro routes perfectly.
IMHO, the 787 would suit CO more than UA, however, when it comes to an airline that the 787 was practically made for, it's DL. They fly 763s around the world (obviously eastward bound)... They'll need replacing in 10 years or so!
Stitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 34058 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (10 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10671 times:
Quoting Wah64d (Reply 22): Why is it so unthinkable for United to order A350? Many of their European routes are a juggling game between 763 and 772. Wouldn't the A350 fit those routes pretty well?
UA sends in the 763s when loads are light (off-peak travel) and the 772s when loads are heavy (peak travel). An A358/A359 would force them to fly empty seats during the off-peak periods (or sell seats at heavy discount, eroding yields). Also, I expect a 787-3 will offer better economics for Hawaii travel then an A358, as well as the intra-hub shuttles (LAX/SFO-DEN/ORD).
So the 787 family offers more flexability:
787-3 for Hawaii and intra-hub shuttles
787-8/787-9 for 763ER replacement on low-traffic international flights
787-10 for 772ER replacement on high-traffic international flights
And the 787 also offers some cockpit commonality with the 773ER and 748I, which allows UA to upgauge capacity more flexably, as well.
: Speaking of United annoucements, they just left me a voicemail letting me know of a sched change in March. Intead of 83 minutes between planes at ORD,
: Your points are well presented and make sense. I don't think there's a great deal in it though. Dependant on financing, I think the A350 could well w
: CO did not order the 787 to fly to Europe, their oldest 767s are 5-6 years old. They are buying the 787-800 to fly to Secondary Asian Cities. IAH- Be
: If UA can increase traffic to Europe and Asia, absolutely.
: How about a exit from Chp 11. They are hiring 1,000 new flight attendants. Maybe (long shot) a merger with DL or NW? Doubtful though, as stated, merge
: all US airlines have rights to fly anywhere in New Zealand they want from anywhere in the States at whatever frequency /capacity and price they like
: Maybe they have a new CEO in February and his name is Kerry SKeen!
: What about AA? Pretty sure they want to dump thos A300's but without losing out on cargo, 787 can do that. Onto UA. As sad as its to see in a so call
: Feb March going to be a lot news from UAL I would think. Yup..exiting Chapt 11 will be one...replacement for Tilton will be another...new aircraft dea
: To all who say United is going to fly the way of the dodo bird, sharpen your financial analysis skills. Apart from the Reuters article where United is
: WHOA...Do not buy exisiting shares of UAL...read the company's annual reports and filings with the SEC. the current stock will be canceled upon exit.
: I'll take the offer if it's a bridge that collects tolls!
: Sorry to go off on a tangent from the topic at hand, but I didn't realize this. Did the 762 fleet come online at CO at the same time as the 764 fleet
: AA would be a prime contendor for the 787-3 as an A300 replacement, and 787-8 for replacing the 763s.
: US Airways is the American launch customer for the A350.
: I wish UA good luck with any plans they might have to be announced in feb. They are my favorite US carrier by far! UA all the way!
: United exiting bankruptcy is a big announcement. Haven't they been bankrupt for years? I remember in late 2003 a BBC World program said that 2004 woul