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Is AA De-emphasizing Boston?  
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4164 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5296 times:

Recent news about AA planning to halt mainline flying from Providence (PVD) would suggest (at least to some) that the carrier wants to focus at Boston instead. But I also heard that AA will cut Boston service quite a bit...from some 70+ daily mainline flights down to 40+. I guess we've been seeing small signs: transcon 737s (ouch!) to LAX where 757s and 767s used to do that duty, and going from A300s to MD-80s on the very busy BOS-MIA route. That last move I don't quite get.

Anyway, is BOS sliding backwards on the list of AA cities??

Chris in NH

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirStatDFW From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5283 times:

Eagle is going to pull out of BOS, reducing the daily flights. I hear that they couldn't compete well on the shuttle service with RJ's.

AirStatDFW


User currently offlineCadet57 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 9085 posts, RR: 30
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5272 times:

Quoting AirStatDFW (Reply 1):
I hear that they couldn't compete well on the shuttle service with RJ's

Ya, i never understood why they did that, but is there any extra '80's or 738's available to fill the gap? But that leads me to a question, was their "shuttle" even succesful? I mean compared to US or DL's? Would it even be worth restarting?



Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
User currently offlineFURUREFA From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 808 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5261 times:

Is eagle really pulling out ALL service from BOS or only the shuttle routes? Isnt BOS an eagle hub?

matt


User currently offlineAirStatDFW From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5245 times:

Quoting FURUREFA (Reply 3):
Is eagle really pulling out ALL service from BOS or only the shuttle routes? Isnt BOS an eagle hub?

I'm not sure if all eagle flights are leaving but I know the eagle hub is leaving BOS. AE wasn't doing that well there, and I think they want to free some more aircraft up for other areas in the system.

AirStatDFW


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4164 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5235 times:

I don't know if there is a 'real' or 'implied' revolt against the 'little' jets, but it seems to me that most people--given the choice--would prefer a mainline jet. I'm sure there are passengers would couldn't tell a 737-800 from a cement mixer. But there are many seasoned flyers--indeed, the 'high yield' market--that is pretty savvy when it comes to choosing service based on aircraft.

Chris in NH


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33286 posts, RR: 71
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5213 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Thread starter):
And going from A300s to MD-80s on the very busy BOS-MIA route.

They went to 757s and added a 6th daily year-round flight. This has nothing to do with anything more than AA simplying what planes fly where. No more A300s to Boston saves in maintence costs. It used to be 2x S80/2x AB6/1x 757. 6x 757s is roughly the same capacity.

Quoting ChrisNH (Thread starter):
transcon 737s (ouch!) to LAX where 757s and 767s used to do that duty,

AA's 738s are far, far nicer than their 757s in just about every respect. Outside of lost capacity, that is an upgrade to the customer. Besides, though, no more 738s to Boston after 12 Febraury. That flight becomes a 757 again.



a.
User currently offlineTinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 983 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5125 times:

Maybe if they cut flights, DL will finally beef up their sked there and dominate BOS like they should. They have been neck and neck for years and AA has always had the lead in the int'l markets. I don't think there is room for two carriers fighting to be number one.


"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2951 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5060 times:

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 7):
Maybe if they cut flights, DL will finally beef up their sked there and dominate BOS like they should.

DL seems to be more interested in ATL, JFK and SLC these days and pulling down domestic service in favor of international. I wouldn't get my hopes up for DL to build-up BOS into a substantial operation.

I find this topic a little counter-intuitive since BOS had been mentioned a few months back about a launching point for 757 transatlantic flying. I can see an Eagle scaleback, but not international, any more transcons (ex. SAN) or hub flying. But who knows. I could be wrong or this could be a false alarm.


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4164 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4959 times:

On BOS-MIA I was thinking that the A300s were perfect for the 'steamer-trunk' briggade that heads for the Caribbean cruises. Isn't BOS-MIA mostly for cruise ship traffic? And that means tons 'o luggage, which the A300s--with their legendary belly capacity--were well suited for?

I applaud AA for their European service out of Boston...the two daily 777s to Heathrow, the 767-300 to Paris, and the 757s to Ireland and Manchester (?). They've been pretty steadfast on European service while Delta tried and failed on one route (Gatwick) and just did a bunch of talking about European service but have yet to do anything. For an airline with a supposed big commitment to Boston, Delta has been pretty fickle: All talk and no action on European service, and TWO failed attempts at transcon. I don't know what will become of Song's transcon service when they morph back into Delta, but if they say sayonara to transcons AGAIN that will make THREE failed attempts.


User currently offlineFlypdx From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 636 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4933 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Thread starter):
transcon 737s (ouch!)

I would much prefer to fly a 738 transcon than an AA 757....


User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3627 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4911 times:

"I'm not sure if all eagle flights are leaving but I know the eagle hub is leaving BOS. AE wasn't doing that well there, and I think they want to free some more aircraft up for other areas in the system."

Cite your source . . . because as someone with close ties to the particular company in question, I don't think you are giving us anything but speculation.

BOS is an Eagle hub. The others are LGA, MIA, SJU, MIA, ORD, DFW, and LAX. Eagle's hub in BOS was inherited from Business Express a long time ago. It's been a hub ever since. The BOS-LGA-DCA routes were also started a while ago. If they didn't make money they would have been cut a while ago aka LGA-BUF, LGA-MDW, JFK-ALB/BUF/ROC/SYR. AA doesn't hold a flight if it loses money. With that said, the NE flights aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Boston's future may actually depend a lot on what happens at JFK. It's no secret that Eagle will have 9 gates there. There is a lot of speculation of a 'dual-hub' for Eagle at JFK and LGA. This would probably close BOS.

Other than that rumor, BOS isn't going anywhere yet.

PJ


User currently offlineAA787 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 611 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4888 times:

Do people think that we might see some of the aircraft if BOS is downsized for AA (especially 757s) to new JFK international or Trans-con flights? If not, where could they be headed?

AA787



ET In NYC
User currently offlineTXKF2010 From Bermuda, joined Nov 2005, 212 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4873 times:

Lets face it B6 is kicking everyone a$$ out of Boston! Wooo


...Rastafari Stands Alone...
User currently offlineFrequentFlyKid From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1206 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4873 times:

Not to get off topic, but from strictly a passenger viewpoint the 757's are near the bottom of my list as far as comfort. I have only flown CO and DL 757's and they are by far the most uncomfortable planes in their respective fleet. I have heard the same from most people that fly regularly that they would much rather be on a 737/Airbus or even an MD-80.

User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4816 times:

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 7):
Maybe if they cut flights, DL will finally beef up their sked there and dominate BOS like they should. They have been neck and neck for years and AA has always had the lead in the int'l markets. I don't think there is room for two carriers fighting to be number one.

Two carriers? Last I checked, there were three carriers fighting at BOS. And the one who offers the most seats, most departures, most mainline departures, most destinations (and is 2nd in pax carried) is neither AA nor DL.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33286 posts, RR: 71
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4720 times:

Quoting AA787 (Reply 12):
Do people think that we might see some of the aircraft if BOS is downsized for AA (especially 757s) to new JFK international or Trans-con flights? If not, where could they be headed?

Most of the BOS resources have been moved to Miami.



a.
User currently offlineTinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 983 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4667 times:

Quoting A330323X (Reply 15):
Two carriers? Last I checked, there were three carriers fighting at BOS. And the one who offers the most seats, most departures, most mainline departures, most destinations (and is 2nd in pax carried) is neither AA nor DL.

Point taken...I neglected to mention US...but I thought I remembered reading somewhere that DL and AA were the top two. Anyway, AA seemed to be the one that was making the strongest commitment to Beantown especially as far as int'l service is concerned. B6 is waiting in the wings. Before long, they might do the same thing to AA and DL AND US as they did at JFK...time will tell.



"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineFCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4619 times:

I've always wondered why US didn't build their BOS focus city to be a bit less regional... a couple A321 transcons would be nice. As it stands, they may have a lot of flights but the farthest west they fly from BOS is, what, Pittsburgh?


USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4559 times:

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 18):
I've always wondered why US didn't build their
BOS focus city to be a bit less regional.

It was twice as large pre-9/11, over 200 dailies. For many years, they were by far the largest carrier there, as opposed to now just being one of the largest, with flights at times to places like FRA in Europe (and they had applied for and lost the BOS-CDG route to AA), and mainline flights to other focus cities, places like BWI, CLE, CMH, IND, MCI, but also to cities like BUF, EWR, IAD, MIA, ORF, RIC, ROC, YYZ and all the usual Florida cities. At the end, many of the mainline flights went to MetroJet; MetroJet flew from BOS to ATL, CMH, FLL, MCO, MDW, PBI, RDU, RSW, TPA. Their decline has come about a third from ending the MetroJet markets, about a third from cutting some of the previous mainline markets (switching the remaining to RJs), and about a third from cutting very-short-haul Express routes like BOS to PWM, BGR, RUT, LEB, HYA, MVY, ABE, AVP, ACK, ITH, ELM, BGM, BDL, BTV, PVD. (All this just refers to the last 10 years or so.) Of course, they've added some markets, most notably almost all of their Caribbean presence, which now extends to 7 markets--AUA, BDA, CUN, MBJ, NAS, PUJ, SJU. Except BDA, all have started since 2003. Of course, they're generally highly seasonal, and most don't see daily service.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 18):
As it stands, they may have a lot of flights but the farthest west they fly from BOS is, what, Pittsburgh?

PHX and LAS.  Smile

Other than that, IND.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4526 times:

US, DL, and AA all fight it out at BOS. DL carries the most passengers, and either US or AA has the most destinations and departures. All 3 carriers take some distinction at BOS for being the biggest in some category. BOS has unfortunately suffered from having too many carriers with medium/large size operations and no carrier willing to make BOS a more significant city. With its proximity to JFK/EWR/LGA and even PHL and IAD/BWI/DCA nearby all having hubs, it's unlikely that BOS will ever be anymore than a focus city. With that being said, I doubt that AE will leave BOS altogether. AA/AE have a substantial operation out of BOS and cutting Eagle completely would put them at a competitive disadvantage, which AA doesn't want.

Jeremy


User currently offlineB752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4453 times:

I am curious if AA, with the good success of the MAN and SNN flights, would consider adding more service to Europe with the use of the 752s, perhaps a flight to BRU, MAD, or LIS could work out? In addition, perhaps the CDG flight will go year round, with the 752 being used for the months it was normally not operating.

I read in another thread that AA intends to start up the MSY flights again.

BOS is an odd city for anyone to have a hub in. In AAs case, it doesnt have the large amounts of cruise, connecting(Latin America) and leisure traffic of Miami, or the geographic location of a DFW, STL or ORD. BOS is going to see an increase in pax and should surpass pre 9/11 numbers.

I agree with MAH, the AA 738s are much better in terms of comfort and quality than thier 752s.


User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4364 times:

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 20):
US, DL, and AA all fight it out at BOS. DL carries the most passengers, and either US or AA has the most destinations and departures. All 3 carriers take some distinction at BOS for being the biggest in some category.

US has the most total departures (due to the prop flights the other airlines don't offer, and the hourly full Shuttle service to DCA compared to every-other-hour on the other airlines). AA previously was #1 here, but they've cut back on a number of Eagle routes.

US has offered the most mainline departures for a very long time (due to mainline on the DCA Shuttle compared to a few RJs on the other airlines, and also the PHL pseudo-shuttle).

For seats offered, US was #3 until recently. They've jumped all the way up to #1 due to a combination of AA and DL cutting flights, and US adding the HP LAS/PHX flights to its numbers.

US offers the most total destinations, and the most mainline destinations. I believe DL offers the most year-round destinations, since a number of AA's and US's international destinations are seasonal. US offers more less-than-daily destinations than the other two.

AA offers the most international destinations. AA offers the most European service. US offers the most Caribbean destinations, but AA offers more capacity.

For pax carried, US was #3 until recently. Now they're #2, having passed AA due to AA cutting flights and US adding the HP LAS/PHX flights to its numbers. DL is #1 in pax carried, having also passed AA to get there.

The reason US offers more seats but carries fewer pax is due to the low loads on the Shuttle flights; since US offers more Shuttle flights (due to the full BOS-DCA Shuttle), it thus has a lower load-factor for the station than the other airlines.

And I'm sure you could come up with numerous other metrics with each of the three coming on top for various ones. I think this shows that they've all got substantial operations there, and are all competitive, some aiming for different markets than others.

And again, this is just talking about now and the recent past. Through most of the 90's, US was by far the largest carrier at BOS in nearly all measurements, its international service being the one area in which it lacked.

Personally, I've always thought that the first of the three to make a real move to take over the city will meet with great success, with the other two retreating to greener pastures rather than deal with a protracted battle at a marginal focus city. I long thought that US should have done it while it had the advantage of operating from the newest and prettiest terminal at the airport. Now, DL holds that advantage, though the US terminal is still quite nice compared to most. All three airlines face the great disadvantage of not having customs/immigration facilities in their respective terminals, though they've each been promised such facilities by MassPort at various times. Sadly, though, none of the three airlines have taken my advice and really made a play for BOS.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineA330323X From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 3039 posts, RR: 43
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4357 times:

Quoting B752OS (Reply 21):
BOS is an odd city for anyone to have a hub in. In AAs case, it doesnt have the large amounts of cruise, connecting(Latin America) and leisure traffic of Miami, or the geographic location of a DFW, STL or ORD. BOS is going to see an increase in pax and should surpass pre 9/11 numbers.

Yes, the biggest problem with turning BOS into hub is its poor geographic location for domestic connections. Business Express and US Airways Express (through Allegheny, CommutAir, and Colgan) were the two airlines who previously offered service to the very-short-haul destinations in the area that would be essential for a connecting hub, but nearly all of those markets have since seen their BOS service discontinued.



I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
User currently offlineIrev210 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4294 times:

I wonder about the people who say they hate the AA-757's how often they fly.

I LOVE the AA 757, with the exit rows mounted at the bulk head, 10A or 10F being my favorite, window with no seat in front, but not a bulk head.


Plus, the 757 first class cabin is much bigger than 737, upgrade chances are much higher.


25 Jayspilot : bostons biggest problem in becomming a domestic hub is the fact that it is the last big city with no real domestic feed from points north or east of i
26 Apodino : Actually, its now LAS with the merger. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't the plan pre 9-11 for an FIS facility in Terminal B to be shared by AA an
27 Post contains images FCYTravis : I completely ignored the America West flights - duh! Stupid me As for putative transcons out of BOS, I'm going to answer my own question and guess tha
28 Flypdx : And what happens when you're stuck in coach? That is where the problem is..Most of us don't constantly get upgraded to first. THe only 757 which I ha
29 Post contains images Frequentflyer : Well I tell you, flying those EMB135s gets old after a while... especially compared to B6 190s. Maybe but ther are more fun when half-empty on takeof
30 ChrisNH : I would think the biggest issue between 757s and 737-800s is lavatories. They are (of course) most in need on transcon nonstops, so does the 737-800 h
31 Travelin man : I too, do not get the whole "the 757 is uncomfortable" thing. I fly all the time, and to me there is not much difference between a 757 and 738. Both a
32 RobertS975 : BOS is not geared up to be an effective international hub as long as MassPort insists that all international flights clear Customs at terminal E.
33 Crosscountry : Hope this doesn't happen! I've just booked MAN-JFK via BOS on AA with seats on those RJ's down to LGA!!! The trip is in September (god bless the AA fa
34 PHLBOS : MetroJet also flew BOS-BWI as well; a route that now only has FL being the sole mainline carrier offering the service.
35 IRelayer : Me too...I don't get it. 757's are among the most comfortable aircraft, properly configured, to fly N/S transcon. The **only** thing to complain abou
36 ScottB : Actually, US and DL are tied at BOS for mainline destinations (14 for each, by my count); B6 will also have 14 destinations from BOS once the flights
37 Tunisia : Yeah, that'll be great. Just B6 left at BOS /sarcasm Anways, AA has done a great job at BOS with their international flights. BTW does anyone know if
38 Jetboy319 : Hmmm.... I'm just curious then, how JetBlue has been able to make it JFK. Pretty much the same "Geographic Location" and it works for them.
39 Post contains images A330323X : Didn't I already say that?   Yes, that was the plan, and it would've been great, and I *guarantee* you that both AA and US would be offering more in
40 ScottB : What BDA service? It's been served in the past, but it's not being served at present.
41 A330323X : It's seasonal, runs daily every summer. It's in the schedules to run May 7 to September 2 this year. And I *explicitly stated*:
42 ScottB : Actually, I did make a mistake counting Delta's mainline destinations from BOS; they are 15: ATL, BDA, CVG, FLL, RSW, LAS, LAX, NAS, LGA, MCO, SLC, S
43 PHLBOS : IIRC, MetroJet's BOS-BWI existed before 9/11. The reason I know that was because I was checking out BOS-PHL fares for my brother that summer and just
44 JCarv : That flt doesn't operate in the winter on Saturdays. That aircraft makes the SDQ run on Saturdays in the winter.
45 B752OS : I was just looking at the timetables for oneworl, as DL is aprt of it and is shows DL running daily non-stop flights between BOS-SFO for quite some t
46 Post contains links ScottB : (1) Delta is not in oneworld, it is in SkyTeam. (2) Look at Delta's own timetable at http://images.delta.com/delta/pdfs/flight_schedules.pdf. The SFO
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