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The Illustrated Mexicana Vs Aeromexico Thread  
User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 19
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2995 times:

Hey everyone, on request by several mexican forum companions I decided to make something similar to the How much have airlines invaded the world but now with our two majors: Mexicana and Aeromexico.

We heard lots about how big is one airline compared to another , about who really is the mexican flag carrier, who has more international presence, etc...

So first I'll start showing who has more presence in the country with more destinations from both carriers: THE US

Mexicana:


Aeromexico:



Now "Worldwide":

Mexicana:

10 countries

Aeromexico:

7 countries

Together

15 countries



Pipe dreams, but quite impressive. Probably would be the best Latin American major. Up to the level with RG and LA

Looking at these maps MY opinion about the mexican flag carrier is definately Mexicana. What we lack to see is the American network Mexicana has compared to Aeromexico. We all go with the idea that Aeromexico has more presence because they go to Europe, which in my opinion shows less than what it really does.

I agree that Aeromexico is a great carrier (besides all problems) and that they connect go to more "world cities" but we can't underestimate Mexicana in the process. IMHO Mexicana should go to Europe and forget about bothering Aeromexico, cuz at the end the latter is doing nothing to work on their European network. Why is Mexicana staying with Asia? Too comfortable for Aeromexico to make money in Europe and having Mexicana waiting till they believe they'll do money on some uncertain markets.

Mexicana on the other hand lacks agressiveness, but well... that's the way things are for the moment. Hopefully in some years both carriers will be succesful in what they're doing.

Any comments and opinions are welcomed of course.

Cheers

Alonso

[Edited 2006-01-09 08:31:46]


KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMrMcCoy From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 377 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2988 times:

Alonso, I must say--those are very detailed images and quite interesting to see. I'd love to see a website with this type of information available for ALL airlines. Wouldn't that be a dream?

Great work.



It only takes five years to go from rumor to standard operating procedure.
User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2984 times:

Quoting MrMcCoy (Reply 1):
Wouldn't that be a dream?

I know! IT gives you a different panorama when you see it in a map and coloured.

Thanks for your comment!

Alonso



KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5224 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2960 times:

Hey, those maps look terrific!!! Will be great to keep this one for the records and make a final 2006 year comparison of how airlines ended and if they improved or went back...

MX and AM this year will fight strongly against each other and they will go for everything without mercy, they just stopped being brothers, a fare war is about to come and as we speak the mexican market will be a little ignored while InterJet and Volaris will rapidly expand as they will be very occupied and with all their eyes in the international market.

This will be a year that will be remembered for all it's changes... 2006 for Mexico will define the countries destiny in respect to air transportation!!!

The entrance to the market of Volaris/GolMex/Alma, Interjet's positioning in the market, AeroCalifornia's fate uncertain, the seven-seven-seven and much more!!! For now lets buckle our seatbelt and get ready for this crazy 2006 journey!!!

ghost77 APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2925 times:

How come neither MX or AM have a more extensive Central American network? Of all carriers, only MX flies to Central America and that's to SJO.

User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 19
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2910 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 4):
How come neither MX or AM have a more extensive Central American network? Of all carriers, only MX flies to Central America and that's to SJO.

Mexicana in their gold years used to have Central America pretty well covered. As you can see some survived and others were left to mercy of other airlines (ie, CM)

Alonso



KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently offlineUcunnn From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2891 times:

Hey my friend KLM685 i love your maps but remember AM doesnt fly to Boston, Massachusetts anymore, so no MA state in the map, and remember MX flies to GUAtemala. 3daily flights, GUA is not in your map. It seems quite to me that you didnt incluide either Panama in Mexicana map.

I certainly believe as ytou think too MX will do great this coming up years. I believe too MX is the mexican flag carrier.


User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2574 posts, RR: 31
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2861 times:

Nice thread. After looking at the Latin American map, It looks like AM and MX split South America in half.. one half for each carrier.

Quoting Ucunnn (Reply 6):
AM doesnt fly to Boston, Massachusetts anymore, so no MA state in the map,

IIRC, AM still keeps a weekly flight to BOS which is mainly used as a repositioning flight for a BOS-CUN-BOS charter flight operated in behalf of a vacation agency.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2804 times:

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 7):
AM still keeps a weekly flight to BOS which is mainly used as a repositioning flight for a BOS-CUN-BOS charter flight operated in behalf of a vacation agency.

For charters MX flies to Jamaica and some other destinations in the caribbean, also time ago an MX´s DC-10 went "Around the world" when the mexican goverment deported a lot of chinese illegals. (that was time ago, but it can help for the record).

Saludos



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2773 times:

KLM685, great maps, it shows you put in some time into this topic. Good work. This year looks very interesting, let's see what happens. GO MEXICANA.

User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2692 times:

Thanks for your comment, it took me a while to make those maps and to check some info ( although it wasn't enough):

Quoting Ucunnn (Reply 6):
remember MX flies to GUAtemala. 3daily flights, GUA is not in your map. It seems quite to me that you didnt incluide either Panama in Mexicana map.

It was a bad assesory mistake, I had a hard time remembering if I read about this flights being stopped for some time or not. Also SJU was missed.

OTOH Panama is not a destination served by MX, it was served (correct me if i'm wrong) some time ago.

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 7):
After looking at the Latin American map, It looks like AM and MX split South America in half.. one half for each carrier.

Exactly, so far it has worked for them but in my opinion it's the same thing that has to be done with Europe and not splitting Europe and Asia for each carrier.

I know the Asian market might be weak to support the 2 of them and so in conclusion it goes only for MX, but Europe in that sense still supports and needs some extra carriers to lower pressure. The demand for Europe never seems to be enough (AF sometimes brings 2 daily, LH last year, IB morning/night flights, airport has 10 times more people when this flights leave, etc...) and until now our dear AM decided to increase capacity. So let's see what's AM's next long haul move. The could easily serve LGW while in line for LHR, but that's just a thought.

Cheers

Alonso



KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2663 times:

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 10):
The could easily serve LGW while in line for LHR, but that's just a thought.

LGW was for MX time ago, even there where some planes ordered, but .....

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 10):
OTOH Panama is not a destination served by MX, it was served (correct me if i'm wrong) some time ago.

Served time ago, but left to CM in codeshare, but there are plans for MX to return to PTY.

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 10):
I know the Asian market might be weak to support the 2 of them and so in conclusion it goes only for MX, but Europe in that sense still supports and needs some extra carriers to lower pressure.

Asia goes for MX, no plans for Europe as some slots are really expensive, but let´s wait for the long term.

Saludos



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineAnthsaun From Mexico, joined Apr 2004, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2626 times:

What ever happened to Guatemala and the other Central American countries?


Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
User currently offlineBgoodam From Mexico, joined Apr 2005, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

Great info, but the bottom line is now that the numbers of both carriers were disclosed it showed AM on top, in everything. Besides all routes now served by MX were at one time first served by AM. Ussually countries that serve different cities around the world wit larger equipment are simbolic of a flag carrier and AM is showing this with the many 67´s it has and now the 777, now that is a flag carrier.

User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2582 times:

Quoting Bgoodam (Reply 13):
Ussually countries that serve different cities around the world wit larger equipment are simbolic of a flag carrier and AM is showing this with the many 67´s it has and now the 777, now that is a flag carrier.

Very true indeed in a world where size does matter and that's what probably frustrates lots of people. Cuz it's ironic that MX being an excellent carrier and with lots of destinations, only gets to have one 763. I'm sure that if they get more widebodies and more destinations (long haul that is) more people would think that MX is a better flag carrier. Speaking inside the American continent people applaude more to MX rather than AM (even if they have mor American destinations). And of course if we go to Europe it is a different panorama. It's all about perspective.

After all this said, I must admit I'll be very happy with AM fleet expansion and probably will shape itself more as a flag carrier than what MX is.

Cheers

Alonso



KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently offlineMTYFREAK From Mexico, joined Apr 2004, 377 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2564 times:

Is it possible that now that MX has been sold will it it be more aggressive towards expansion?

AM seems to be half a sleep on that topic and it's been said here sometimes that it could be because Cintra is in charge of AM SO I hope that MX and it's new owner takes advantage of that situation while they can.

Too bad MX is missing the big aircraft and only has one long haul destination, otherwise It could easily be the flag carrier with no doubt,

I guess it's just a matter of perspective because both airlines could be a flag carrier, we should be glad that we have two airlines like MX and AM because in some countries they don't even get close to what we have here.



Only here for the beer...
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2574 posts, RR: 31
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2564 times:

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 14):
Cuz it's ironic that MX being an excellent carrier and with lots of destinations, only gets to have one 763. I'm sure that if they get more widebodies and more destinations (long haul that is) more people would think that MX is a better flag carrier.

Wait till they get their A330s and A34NGs... MX will fly very very high, my best wishes for them.

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis


User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2527 times:

Quoting MTYFREAK (Reply 15):
Too bad MX is missing the big aircraft and only has one long haul destination, otherwise It could easily be the flag carrier with no doubt,



Quoting MTYFREAK (Reply 15):
Is it possible that now that MX has been sold will it it be more aggressive towards expansion?

Precisely my point. I have the strong idea that MX will tend to become more aggresive as competion goes into the mexican market. Also because they went outside CINTRA, which makes MX more independent from AM.



KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2460 times:

Quoting MTYFREAK (Reply 15):
Too bad MX is missing the big aircraft and only has one long haul destination, otherwise It could easily be the flag carrier with no doubt,

Mexicana ordering widebody aircraft would be the best possible news for me. A330s, A340s, or even second hand 767s, I just want to see them do some long-haul flying. Come on Mexicana, Europe is calling.......


User currently offlineTUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1844 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2451 times:

IMHO a Mexicana A340 would look wonderful flying across the pond to various European destinations. Not to mention how nice the Mexicana colours would look on an A340.

Thanks for the Illustrations

[Edited 2006-01-10 00:16:39]


Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2385 times:

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 19):
Not to mention how nice the Mexicana colours would look on an A340.

Hope they will look awesome.

Quoting KLM685 (Reply 14):
After all this said, I must admit I'll be very happy with AM fleet expansion and probably will shape itself more as a flag carrier than what MX is.

AM will take the lead, actually with CINTRA AM was in the lead, they don´t knew how to keep there, or even take advantage of it, now the things are different, just wait (i know, we´ve been waiting too long).

Quoting Juventus (Reply 18):
Come on Mexicana, Europe is calling.......

Patience my friens (más vale paso que dure y no trote que canse).

Saludos.



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineAdriaticus From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1137 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

I dislike the "AM vs. MX" tone and thread title... Rather than sending the two very respectable flag carriers (both of them are, regardless how much some people here dislike the idea) into a fratricide war, I believe the new separate administrations should focus in growing and expanding competitively in their own respective turfs, while continue collaborating wherever a win-win situation can be reaped... Discussions about who is "bigger", "better" or "nicer" do not lead anywhere, because there are no absolute answers to neither of them... More frames do not mean more seats, more routes do not entail more flown miles, Airbuses or Boeings will not make by themselves in-flight service any better, more pax do not imply higher profits, seniority does not mean better -current- administration... It should be AM and MX, or MX and AM..., not AM vs MX... I truly like them both, with all their respective strenghts and weaknesses, for what they strive to offer their passengers and employees... And I take my business to both of them.

As Ghost said, '2006 will be a spectacular year and we all should be glad for the success stories, milestones and breakthroughs of all air carriers proudly displaying the Mexican flag in their tails (a.k.a. vertical stabilizers) or fuselages.

Quoting MTYFREAK (Reply 15):
I guess it's just a matter of perspective because both airlines could be a flag carrier, we should be glad that we have two airlines like MX and AM because in some countries they don't even get close to what we have here.

Couldn't have said it better myself. On to my RUL list!

___Ad.



A300/18/19/20/21 B721/2 B732/3/G/8 B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 DC8/9/10 MD11 TU134/154 IL62/86 An24 SA340/2000 E45/90
User currently offlineKLM685 From Mexico, joined May 2005, 1577 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

Quoting N405MX (Reply 20):
(más vale paso que dure y no trote que canse).

No pues si...

Quoting N405MX (Reply 20):
now the things are different, just wait (i know, we´ve been waiting too long

Hopefully...And as it's been said throught the thread it will be a spectacular year.

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 21):
More frames do not mean more seats, more routes do not entail more flown miles,

I get your point, but you have to agree that it's a sign for growth as well. I'm not from the idea that they should get a 300 plane fleet and then think of what they're doing with them. But if AM is ordering 777 it means that they're finally smelling the coffee European airlines have been serving themselves for a while. Then again, the day MX gets their widebodies and be successful with them it'll be the day where Mexican aviation is getting to it's next and better level.

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 21):
It should be AM and MX, or MX and AM..., not AM vs MX..

At the end those are the 2 most important Mexican carriers fighting for their place in World's Aviation.

It's the same as DL vs UA vs CO vs AA vs US vs HP vs NW.

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 21):

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Exactly the hidden message of this thread. Just check out the map where the 2 of them together.... Simply Wonderful. We are to the level of the US, China, Japan, and probably South Korea, the few countries with 2 important majors.

Cheers

Alonso



KLM- The Best Airline in the World!
User currently offlineMTYFREAK From Mexico, joined Apr 2004, 377 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2283 times:

Quoting Adriaticus (Reply 21):
On to my RUL list!

Right on!
cheers mate,
On to my RUL list as well.



Only here for the beer...
User currently offlineAnthsaun From Mexico, joined Apr 2004, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

Hey, you guys!!!

I'm a pro MX fan and from now on I promise before you never to disrespect AM. I will value the best from both airlines and will try to learn from the mistakes of both of them without being selfish.



Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
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