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Swiss International Airlines  
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4170 times:

I have a load of questions about Swiss.

Ok so they are now a full Star Alliance member. What is their current fleet?

Last i looked it was nine A343E and A332 - any increases there?

Also what does their current short-haul fleet consist of? I know its nearly all Airbus narrowbodies but what about new deliveries/orders etc. Didnt they have some ERJ170/190 on order? When do they get delivered? Do they lease or own their fleet?

How likely would they be to get the A350? Does the 787 stand a chance?

Do Lufthansa Technik do their heavy MX work? Any operational ramifications of the Lufthansa takeover - will LH transfer any more A330s/40s? I know LX is desperate for more long-haul capacity - have they got rid of the last of their MD11s now?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.  Smile


What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4159 times:

The star alliance website does not count LX as a member..

Fleet detail (non-turboprop): http://airfleets.net/flottecie/Swiss%20International%20Airlines.htm



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offlineXiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 852 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4137 times:

Are SWISS officially in the Star Alliance?

User currently offlineKnightsofmalta From Malta, joined Nov 2005, 1836 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4118 times:

Actually, LX won't be joining the STAR Alliance until april.

At the moment, negotiations are continuing to introduce an additional A. 330 and two A. 340 to the fleet in order to operate the long-haul flights on a daily basis again. The A. 330 in question is actually an old SR aircraft which went to LH ad interim until they received their own ordered A. 330. This means that if the aircraft actually comes, it wouldn't even need to be refurbished or anything.

As for the MD-11, sadly, the last LX aircraft left the fleet in 2004.


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6937 posts, RR: 63
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4089 times:

CHRISBA777ER

The MD-11s are long gone and the long-haul fleet is indeed 9 x A330-223 (with PW4168A) of which five have a three class configuration (i.e. with First) and four have two classes and 9 x A340-300E all configured with three classes. There's no immediate likelihood of further long-haul planes being added despite steady rumours.

On short-haul, the SAAB 2000s have all gone and the ERJs will be gone by the end of March. One RJ100 is going but six more are being brought in from British Airways. LX will then have 20 x RJ100 and 4 x RJ85.

The Airbus A32x fleet is currently 7 x A319, 14 x A320 and 4 x A321 - all with CFM. (There's also a leased Privatair BBJ doing a ZRH-New York run.)

The sundry E-170s and E-190s that have been deferred again and again seem unlikely ever to be delivered.

So, by this summer LX will be flying:

18 x A330/A340
25 x A32x
24 x RJ85/100

If they were buying new widebodies tomorrow I'd suggest that the A350 would be in a strong position. LX could replace A330s with the -800 and A340s with -900s thereby having one fleet and one engine for all long-haul services.

But they are NOT buying new widebodies tomorrow or even the day after tomorrow!

Traditionally, LX (i.e. SR) have not been a big Boeing customer (just seven 747s over the years) but whether that has any bearing on the possibility of a 787 order I have no idea.

In any case, it seems unlikely in future that LX will have a fleet that is markedly different from that of Lufthansa. As and when LH make some decisions about their future fleet (and once LH have decided on the future of long-haul routes out of ZRH) we should have an idea of what LX will be flying ten years from now.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4041 times:

Thanks guys! Much appreciated.  Smile


What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4017 times:

Quoting Xiaotung (Reply 2):
Are SWISS officially in the Star Alliance?

see also Swiss Now Official Star Alliance Partner (by Bjornstrom Jan 5 2006 in Civil Aviation)
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6937 posts, RR: 63
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4007 times:

Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 3):
At the moment, negotiations are continuing to introduce an additional A. 330 and two A. 340 to the fleet.



Quoting PM (Reply 4):
There's no immediate likelihood of further long-haul planes being added despite steady rumours.

I hope you're right and I'm wrong! But we've been hearing these rumours since before LH took over and I'll believe it when I see it.  Sad


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4507 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3998 times:

Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 3):
The A. 330 in question is actually an old SR aircraft which went to LH ad interim until they received their own ordered A. 330.

That would be one of the A332s currently parked at CGN? That is, if these 3 airframes are still there at this time. The two remaining A332s in Lufthansa's fleet, which are due to leave soon are ex-Sabena frames OO-SFT and OO-SFU.

Swiss is in dire need to reinstate daily operations to its core longhaul destinations (HKG, GRU, JNB, BKK, and even LAX and MIA if they want to sustain them). It has also been sitting on the rights to operate daily into NRT, but it has so far not done so, lacking the necessary resources.


User currently offlineYukonTrader From Switzerland, joined May 2005, 207 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3826 times:

Hi

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
Do Lufthansa Technik do their heavy MX work?

actually, heavy maintenance on the long-haul fleet is mostly done by SR Technics in Zurich; ARJ's, ERJ's (and previously Saab 2000s) are done in-house by Swiss in Basel, in the former Crossair facility. Note that SRT is an independend company from LX: It is one of the few parts of the bankrupt SAirLines concern that was successfully spun-off and sold to an investor integrally, allowing it to continue trading.

Ironically, it is rather the other way round than where your question was heading to: SR Technics also does various maintenance tasks for Lufthansa & its associates, mainly on the MD-11F and the A340, while Swiss in Basel also started doing some heavy maintenance on Lufthansa Regional Avros.

Cheers, Lukas


User currently offlineChrisZRH From Switzerland, joined May 2004, 423 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3727 times:

It's very likely Swiss is going to drop the BKK-SIN leg as it's non-profitable. if there is going to be a successfull code-share agreement with SA they drop JNB as the plane stands around like 12 hours for nothing, so they can add additional frequencies.
Santiago is likely to get added in code-share agreement with LH from GRU on, so LX flies GRU-Santiago, while LH flies GRU-Buenos Aires

chris



Christian Galliker - AirTeamImages
User currently offlineLX23 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3524 times:

Well, PM, Knightsofmalta, and ChrisZRH all did a good job of saying pretty much everything I wanted to say.

The two A332s (the third is going to TP I think) at CGN that might or might not be added (like Chris, I'm somewhat sceptical about this...but then again, LX could use the extra airplanes!) are HB-IQM, HB-IQN ex SR birds, which would make me rather happy, as I've flown on both machines, and seeing them return to ZRH/GVA would be great  Smile

I also agree with Chris that LX dropping BKK-SIN is likely (and a wise move, if they can codeshare with TG).

But as long as I'm dreaming... I'd love to see a return of some intercontinental flights to GVA  Silly yes, yes, we have JFK... but it would still be nice to have something else  Smile


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4507 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3487 times:

Quoting ChrisZRH (Reply 10):
It's very likely Swiss is going to drop the BKK-SIN leg as it's non-profitable.

Singapore hasn't been profitable for SR/LX for quite a while now. Back in the 90s, when there were 3 weekly nonstops and 4 direct flights, the line was heavily in the red, and so the nonstops were axed. The station, however, has remained unprofitable, so a complete closure is now very likely. That being said, the flights are still in the CRS and seats to SIN can be booked.

Lufthansa and Swiss are also contemplating the use of LX's idle equipment at BKK if and when the SIN tag on were to be axed. A quick turnaround to KUL on behalf of LH is being considered. Alternatively, LX might reschedule its BKK operation into a Westbound dalylight pattern, so as to preserve aircraft utilization rates.

As for JNB, I wouldn't be surprised at all if at some point in the near future the LX-operated flight gets the axe. The flight was heavily lossmaking when it was operated as a daylight outbound. I haven't seen any figures for the new situation, but I would imagine that, with 2 Star airlines on the route, it is likely that SA could take over the entire operation, allowing LX to reallocate the equipment. JNB must be one of LX's most costly routes in terms of aircraft utilization, considering the long ground times.


User currently offlineKa From Switzerland, joined Apr 2000, 661 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3279 times:

Quoting ChrisZRH (Reply 10):
It's very likely Swiss is going to drop the BKK-SIN leg as it's non-profitable.

I found an article which says that you are right. Though it has not yet been confirmed.
Sorry, only in German: http://www.handelszeitung.ch/de/arti...rtikelanzeige.asp?BerichtNr=114803

In any case there are still some changes needed to introduce LX14 (second daily ZRH-JFK). The flightplan currently loaded into the reservation systems like amadeus will require one more A332 as of april. A rescheduling of BKK to westbound daylight would free up one A343 which could be used instead...

I personally would favor a 10th A332 and the termination of SIN, rescheduling of LX182/183 and using the freed-up A343 to increase operation to GRU (with extension to SCL), LAX and JNB (these destinations are mentioned as prime candidates for daily service favored by LX in the article above).

KA.



Keep smiling - you might be on Radar!
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3150 times:

The article in the Handelszeitung is a little bit pessimistic. First of all we should note that LX has given up the mentioned Asian destinations before their integration in LH.

And I don't see giving up SIN as such a big problem. LX will place it's code on SQ's daily nonstop. Now in the same alliance with SQ, I don't see why anybody should still fly LX onestop via BKK.

Another strong indication that the BKK-SIN leg will be scrapped is that LH cancels it's MUC-BKK flight from April. So LH might need some more seets to BKK, which they could fulfill with a codehsare on LX's ZRH-BKK.
I also see some new opportunities ariesing regarding 5th freedom destinations from BKK. LH and LX could operate a scissor hub in BKK. LH's 744 currently flies onward 3x to SGN and 4x to KUL. Together with Swiss, they could operate both destinations daily. Or LX could fly to TPE, a destination currently not served by LH because they want to appease China. But because LX doesn't operate to China they could fly to Taiwan.

If there is really so much demand from Switzerland to Singapore, than LX needs to fly nonstop to compete with SQ, but I doubt that there is enough room for 2 nonstops. I see more importance in serving China and India, currently underserved from Switzerland, than a 2nd Star Alliance flight to SIN.


User currently offlineCure From Italy, joined Sep 2005, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3106 times:

I can just say that LX is in a pretty bad shape right now and since quite a bit

http://www.swiss.com/web/IE6/20051110_media_release_e_final.pdf


something like 50 millions euros lost in the first 9 months of 2005, even bigger than the loss of some other millions during 2004...that is not being profitable. Why exactly did LH buy it?...
Why are we talking about new longhaul planes or routes if they are in such conditions...after already having folded and restarted?


User currently offlineKnightsofmalta From Malta, joined Nov 2005, 1836 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2934 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 12):
As for JNB, I wouldn't be surprised at all if at some point in the near future the LX-operated flight gets the axe. The flight was heavily lossmaking when it was operated as a daylight outbound. I haven't seen any figures for the new situation, but I would imagine that, with 2 Star airlines on the route, it is likely that SA could take over the entire operation, allowing LX to reallocate the equipment. JNB must be one of LX's most costly routes in terms of aircraft utilization, considering the long ground times.

As far as I know, minor maintenance is carried out on the aircraft during it's 12 hour stay in JNB and it's also washed on the outside.

As for LX dropping JNB, that might be a tricky one. Having to fly LH via FRA is hardly something you can expect passengers to do when there's a direct SA flight every day from ZRH. Ideally, there would be a code-share agreement between LX and SA, especially now that both are joining STAR. But from what I've heard, the relationship between the two carriers has been everything but rosy for the last couple of years and without LH using it's clout with SA for the benefit of LX, I hardly see anything happening really.



Quoting JoFMO (Reply 14):
And I don't see giving up SIN as such a big problem. LX will place it's code on SQ's daily nonstop. Now in the same alliance with SQ, I don't see why anybody should still fly LX onestop via BKK.

That's easier said than done. Negotiations with SQ and LX have not been going well lately. SQ's point of view is that if they can manage to turn in a profit on their own on the SIN-ZRH route, they see absolutely no reason why they should have to share part of that profit with LX by placing their code on the flight. They do have a point. On the other hand, SQ has been making noises about changing the ZRH flight from a B. 747 to a B. 777. So maybe it's not that easy after all trying to fill the plane on their own...


User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6937 posts, RR: 63
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2897 times:

Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 16):
Having to fly LH via FRA is hardly something you can expect passengers to do when there's a direct SA flight every day from ZRH.

And, for some reason, I find it quietly amusing that all three services are operated by variants of the A340:

ZRH-JNB SA A340-200
ZRH-JNB LX A340-300
FRA-JNB LH A340-600 (an LH Flight but operated by SAA)

OK, you can also take an LH 744 FRA-JNB but with EK and VS (and others?) also there, JNB is a "good" airport to see A340s.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5151 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2804 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 14):


Why exactly did LH buy it?...

To keep BA from getting it.



Next Up: STL-EWR-STL for my first mileage run!
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2685 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 18):
Quoting JoFMO (Reply 14):
Why exactly did LH buy it?...
To keep BA from getting it.

Beside the fact that the reply was not given by me, LH could only buy it because BA wasn't interested in sinking any money in Swiss at all.

Don't forget that LX decided to join Oneworld. Only after they gave BA half of their slots in LHR they realized that BA wasn't interested at all in them. They didn't want to take any risk just melt them.


User currently offlineKa From Switzerland, joined Apr 2000, 661 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2417 times:

So, do we have any new information on how LX plans to operate their summer 06 longhaul flights? It simply won´t be possible with the current fleet to operate all currently loaded flights.
March 26 is not too far away.

KA.



Keep smiling - you might be on Radar!
User currently offlineAukahkay From Singapore, joined Nov 2005, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week ago) and read 2349 times:

LX is not a member of Star Alliance. It is a member of One World/Asia Miles.

User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8579 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week ago) and read 2338 times:
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Quoting Aukahkay (Reply 21):
LX is not a member of Star Alliance. It is a member of One World/Asia Miles.

it is not yet a member of Star Alliance ... although confusingly it is on the RTW fare .. expect it to become a member sometime around April this year .

it is not and never has been a member of OW - it withdrew it's membership application in Jun '04 before actually becoming a member ( although it is currently a member of the ff programmes of a number of individual OW airlines )



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5569 posts, RR: 36
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2186 times:

Quoting Aukahkay (Reply 21):
LX is not a member of Star Alliance. It is a member of One World/Asia Miles.

At the Star Alliance meeting in Summer 2005 (I think in June) Swiss was confirmed to become a full member. It will be effective from April 2006. It must be like this as Swiss is fully owned by LH. Swiss never was a member of OW.


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