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Menzies Does It Again!  
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5901 posts, RR: 6
Posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7817 times:
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No damage to airplane, but carelessness. When will AS management get their head out of their butts??? Menzies is just not working in SEA.


Baggage handlers' latest gaffe: Dog tossed aboard jet
By Cheryl Phillips

Seattle Times staff reporter

LISA ROSS

Jace, a 40-pound border collie, was bound for a dog competition in Florida.


Saturday night, just a day after Alaska Airlines increased its monitoring of ramp operations at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport, a baggage worker threw a crate containing a border collie into the cargo hold of a plane instead of using a conveyor belt.

The dog's owner, Lisa Ross of Woodinville, was watching from inside the terminal around 11 p.m. when a ramp worker picked up the crate holding her 40-pound dog, Jace, tipped it at a 45-degree angle and then heaved it over his head into the jet.

The baggage worker is an employee of Menzies Aviation, an Alaska contractor blamed for damaging two Alaska Airlines jets on the ground at Sea-Tac in the past three weeks. As a result of those earlier incidents, Menzies said it was flying 25 supervisors to Seattle to work alongside Menzies' local workers to improve the operation. Also, Alaska said Friday it was assigning six extra Alaska Airlines employees to supervise ramp operations for each shift.

But Ross saw no supervisors.

"My dog was basically being slammed from level to 45 degrees and projected into the plane," Ross said. "It was just horrifying to see."

The worker then walked to Ross' other dog, an Australian shepherd named Tucker, and tried to lift his crate but couldn't, Ross said. Workers used a belt loader for the 50-pound dog, according to Ross and an Alaska incident report.

Ross complained to an Alaska gate agent, who went down to the tarmac and spoke with the workers. They admitted throwing a dog but said it was a different one, Ross said. She noted that she uses brightly colored crates so she can spot her dogs when she flies. She also puts cards with the dogs' pictures on each crate to make sure workers know what they are moving.

After Ross complained, her dogs were unloaded and she postponed her flight until today. She had been on her way to a dog competition in Florida. She's now taking only Tucker because she thinks he's too heavy to be thrown.

While Alaska has increased its supervision of Menzies employees, the six Alaska employees on duty each shift must cover 26 gates, said Amanda Tobin, an Alaska spokeswoman.

Tobin said the airline is investigating the incident and has communicated its concern to senior managers at Menzies. The airline transports more than 35,000 pets a year, she said.




A Menzies employee in the company's Seattle office referred all questions to a London-based Menzies spokesman. Phone calls to that spokesman were not returned.

This week, four senior executives with Menzies are leading a 90-day review of the contractor's operations at Sea-Tac. In May, Alaska said it would save $13.7 million a year by outsourcing the Sea-Tac baggage work to Menzies.

An Alaska supervisor told Ross that the airline would pay for any veterinarian bills, according to the Alaska incident report. "I do not know why the ramp agents didn't use a belt loader when boarding the first dog except they must of [sic] been in a hurry," the supervisor wrote in the report.

Ross said Jace was shaking and panting and afraid to go back into his crate when she unloaded him, but he seems to be uninjured. Her concern now is how well he will travel in the future, she said.

"I just don't want it to happen again."

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5504 posts, RR: 29
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7723 times:

It'll be interesting to see when and if Alaska management loses their will. At what point do they kill the Menzies deal and try something else? Who are the other contractors that do ramp work like this?

I doubt AS will go back to it's own staff, at least not yet. That would be a bitter pill to take, though so is the current local media blitzkrieg. Someone up at headquarters must be absolutely pissed right now. I wouldn't be surprised if a few chairs have gone airborne.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineLGA777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1149 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7679 times:

This is another classic example of outsourcing in the airline industry. With the various incidents and associated publicity in the press which is probably huge in the SEA area, I wonder what the dollar figure in lost revenue does to the bottom line of how much AS is actually saving by outsourcing the SEA ramp ?

Regards

LGA777


User currently offlinePiercey From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 2233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7660 times:

I swear stories like this are reasons you just want to avoid AS.

Two years and a plane will be in the drink with this matinence record.



Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
User currently offlineEchster From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7640 times:

AS has stated contracting out will save them $13 million. I have to believe they've lost a lot of that savings by the recent bad publicity.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7633 times:

Quoting Piercey (Reply 3):

Two years and a plane will be in the drink with this matinence record.

What on earth does AS "maintenance" have to do with it? The subject is their ground handler (Menzies)...


User currently offlineGift4tbone From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks ago) and read 7620 times:

Ok, so they have a contract with the menzies, right? What is the cancellation clause? Anyone know this? I'm sure right about now, some AS higher-ups, are looking at the cost of replacing the menzies Vs. the cost of keeping them.

Is there any other ramp agent companies besides the Menzies? Becuase they are the only one I know of.

-Tony@PVD



Top 3 airports: PVD 26.0%(115 flights), PHL 15.6%(69 flights), PHX 12.0%(53 flights)
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5901 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7608 times:
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They could get Swissport to do the ramp work.

User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7608 times:

Quoting Echster (Reply 4):
AS has stated contracting out will save them $13 million. I have to believe they've lost a lot of that savings by the recent bad publicity.

Yeah, you have to think that the amount of "good will" that Alaska has lost over the series of recently widely reported incidents -- including the older ones was worth well more than $13 million.

I think we're about --> <-- far away from a "I-Team" style "under cover investigation" that will cost Alaska even more good will, even it its not completely accurate.

On the subject of today's incident am I the only one who finds this statement, if true, to be one of the more disturbing things to condemn Menzies:

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Thread starter):
They admitted throwing a dog but said it was a different one, Ross said.

"Uh, yeah, ma'am, they did throw a dog, but no need to worry, it wasn't yours..."

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7484 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7596 times:

Reminds me of the old saying; "Pay them peanuts , and you'll get monkeys!" Serves AS right.


'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4057 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7594 times:

ATS immediately comes to mind, they work a good percentage of the airlines at PDX, currently all CO, AA...and DL and HA beginning next month. They also work in cargo with Airborne, and maybe UPS but don't quote me on that one. Since I've worked here I'm not aware of any incidents this bad. I know a lot of the ATS employees personally and they are very responsible, capable people.

User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5901 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7573 times:
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You would think this incident would be last straw. But how many other rampers have done the same thing. I'm sure there are plenty of them out there. They just don't have the scrutiny as AS or Menzies.

But that kind of work is deplorable.


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3503 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7567 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 10):
and maybe UPS but don't quote me on that one.

Couldn't resist.  Wink

I think it might be time for AS to look for someone else to run their ramp ops at SEA...that, or Menzies needs to put some thought into their training programs.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3343 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7517 times:

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 7):
They could get Swissport to do the ramp work.

I would not count on DAL GLOBAL SERVICEs, they sure would underbid Menzies and oh yes you get what you pay for. Id love to see the mistakes DGS would cause AS if they did the handling,

They should try GLOBE GROUND / ATS / SWISSPORT

or how about teach HORIZON AIR to handle 737?



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4057 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7486 times:

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 13):
or how about teach HORIZON AIR to handle 737?

I like that idea! Horizon, subsidiary of AS, does all ground handling for AS.


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7447 times:

Quoting Gift4tbone (Reply 6):
Ok, so they have a contract with the menzies, right? What is the cancellation clause?

Knowing nothing about the Alaska contract in particular, and having no legal eduction, I can't speak definitively, but as someone who enjoys reading contracts (and then the lawsuits that arise from those contracts)... It likely depends on who drafted the contract.

If Menzies drafted the contract, there is probably little wiggle room and/or a very high "cancellation" penalty, however, any ambiguity in the contract would be construed against the drafter and for the other party, so if all of the "i"s aren't dotted or "t"s crossed, AS may have some wiggle room.

If Alaska drafted the contract, I would suspect that there is at least one of the following potential escapes:

- Loss of Good Will/Irreperable Harm to Reputation/Detrimental acts - Some contracts (and this would be a great one) include specific provisions, including in some cases an escape, if the actions of one party are detrimental to the other or cause harm to the other's reputation or good will.

- Material breach -- Depending on what, exactly, AS is contracting Menzies for (and if there are any kind of service level gaurntees, etc. included) it could be argued that Menzies is not providing the services pursuant to the terms of the contract and therefore Alaska could/should be released from its obligations under the contract.

I suspect that Alaska is losing patientce and that this "90 day review" is a component of the contract and serves to put Menzies on notice that Alaska is not satisfied with their performance under the contract and gives Menzies the opportunity to improve before further adverse action is taken.

But again -- I'm not a lawyer, I have no legal education and could be going off into orbit-- anyone who knows better, please correct me.

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineAirlineAddict From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7428 times:
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Damaging aircraft and causing loss of good will could be grounds for "gross negligence" which usually is enough cause to terminate if not sue for damages (but I'm no lawyer, just an aviation entusiast).

User currently offlineSwissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7425 times:

That is why you leave your pet home..................

Incident has nothing to do with out sourcing guys, there are many ramp employees witch do not care or very little how to handle animals, they are everywhere.
I know they get paid very little (makes me cry) ( joke), just because you get paid 7 hr. gives you the right to abuse animals...... pretty sad........

I am sure AS will fix the problems as fast as they can.

Contracts usually have a 60 to 90 day cancellation period but if reason is sever enough it could be terminated immediately.

just my 2/c


User currently offlineLono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1335 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7394 times:

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 13):
Id love to see the mistakes DGS would cause AS if they did the handling,

You will have your chance at watching them when DGS takes over the ramp for DL Feb 1 in SEA..... DL let 60 some rampers go effective that day....



Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7364 times:

Quoting Swissy (Reply 17):
Contracts usually have a 60 to 90 day cancellation period but if reason is sever (sic) enough it could be terminated immediately.

And who would replace them? The 478 IAM-represented rampers?  rotfl 



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3503 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7340 times:

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 13):
or how about teach HORIZON AIR to handle 737?

I'm sure Menzies does ground handling for QX too...someone correct me if I'm mistaken.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21511 posts, RR: 60
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7283 times:

I like CO's special pet handling program. Won't eliminate sick people from doing bad things, but they don't treat animals as baggage, either.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineCtbarnes From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3491 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7217 times:

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 20):
I'm sure Menzies does ground handling for QX too...someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

QX still does their own ground handling at SEA.

Charles, SJ



The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3119 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7206 times:

Quoting Lincoln (Reply 15):
I'm not a lawyer, I have no legal education and could be going off into orbit-- anyone who knows better, please correct me.

I think the the legal beagles call it T for C or Termination for Cause. Its one of two contract escapes I'm familiar with. With all of the bad press, AS certainly has it well documented.  cry 



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4057 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7157 times:

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 20):
I'm sure Menzies does ground handling for QX too...someone correct me if I'm mistaken.

Horizon does their own ground handling at PDX too. SEA and PDX are the largest QX stations.


25 GentFromAlaska : Unless you're trying to check at pet with CO in BNA. CO is the only airline I ever flown which require pax flying with a pet where the critter is pla
26 Sunking737 : Menzies sounds like ATS here in MSP what a group of losers, another outfit like this is IAS. These clowns have about 1 hr of training. ASIG on the oth
27 ZKNEA : Are these the same Menzies that had problems in CHC? or was it AKL.. I do'nt remember.But they had someone caught stealing baggage. Interestingly enou
28 Malaysia : How sad for the DL ramp to go. Soon DGS will take over all DL outstation ramp, but some strange things have happened such as DGS once did contracts i
29 HPRamper : ATS got the DL/HA contract here, they had to hire 90 new rampers. I don't know about other stations, but the ATS people here are pretty good for the
30 Swissy : HPRamper you are right with your statement (reply 29), that is a big problem if you are in need of 50 or 60 ramp employees. Most of them hired right o
31 Qxq400 : Some of us on the ramp for QX in SEA believe that this will happen in about a year. Others on the ramp do not see it happening. I believe it is only
32 Malaysia : Just be glad you have a "real" airline job and take it easy at QX in the meantime, but yes Menzies does hurt you in the long run making AS service lo
33 Georgetown : That's absolutely one way to terminate a contract, and believe me, there are plenty others. Basically it all depends on the individual contract. Many
34 N1120A : Trust me on this, if Alaska's lawyers are half way decent, they can find a way to get out of the Menzies contract given all that has happened.
35 CWAFlyer : Contracting work out doesn't necessarily mean a recipie for accidents. When I worked in PSP in the late 80's, Combs Gates (later AMR Combs) did the gr
36 Georgetown : Probably true, but it would be a whole hell of a lot more expensive than finding a way to work with Menzies to fix the problem. Most executives worth
37 Thepilot : Man, these Menzies are starting to worry me. I am a frequent flyer of AS, (in a few weeks, as a matter of fact), and I want to support them, but how f
38 Aviationfreak : That's no surprise to me. I can tell you out of my own experience from AMS and AKL that we (Menzies) are always short in equipment. The management ju
39 Sunking737 : IAS is Integrated Airline Services Inc. link.....www.iasair.com Here in MSP they are a bigger joke then ATS but not by much. I always thought ATS was
40 HPRamper : I didn't know ASIG did anything but fuel aircraft and do some maintenance. Then again, Huntleigh does ground handling here and a lot of people think t
41 Meechy36 : I was a ramper for Command Airways back in the 80's. Back then training consisted of a week of classroom training and a week of OTJ training with a ra
42 Tango-Bravo : Perhaps when management and their sycophants grow so weary of having their proverbial chains jerked by the actions of low-paid, unmotivated, inexperi
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