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767 Broken Up - After Only 14 Years Service!  
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10594 posts, RR: 10
Posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 19371 times:


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The scrapping of relatively young aircraft speeds up. This 767 was taken apart just 17 years old, and after seeing only 14 years of service! Delivered in August 1987, no one wanted to fly this jet after the second operator Ansett closed down in 2001. After 3 years rotting away it looked like this. The photo is from late 2004.

The first two or three AA 767s have also been scrapped in recent months, and many more 767s are reportedly condemned to meet the axeman soon. 4 or 5 more AA-birds, and several other ex-Ansett 767s are in different stages of breaking up, 2 ex-TWA are gone and the 3 ex-Transbrasil 767s are in such a bad condition that they are likely to never fly again after only 17-18 years service. And that are not all counted which seem to be awaiting the scrapman this year.

For comparison: I remember the very first 747 that was scrapped in 1991 was 22 years old by then (a single 747SR excluded which was bought and then cut up by Boeing for testing and examing purposes in the late 80s).

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4295 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 19310 times:

the older non-ER versions of the 767-200 aren't very popular on the 2nd hand market. They have relatively many total cycles (compared to the 747), so are less attractive for cargo conversion, and also lacking range, so not suitable for a small airline starting up long haul ops. The 767 is carrying around 2 aisles while only with a capacity for 200-200 passengers, the A-321 or 737-800 or a 2nd hand 757 can almost fulfill the same role and are lighter and much more economical.
I don't think it's a true trend. Some 10 year old A-310s have been scrapped as well, I believe even a 1993 fairly new ex SQ model. In the early 70s, the first 707s, DC-8s, Tridents and Caravelles were already scrapped, being only 10 years old. In the early 1960s, many DC-7s and Super Constellations which were broken up only had 6 years of service beyond them.
In the 1980s, the first 727s and even Tristars went to the cutters.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2066 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 19296 times:

NA, the avition market is still quite depressed despite the bumper orders for 2005. Many types of aircraft from the 1980s are not economical to fly today, the 767 and A300/A310 being among them. Not saying they are bad aircraft, but they are small twin aisle aircraft and airlines are increasingly favouring single aisle aircraft for short sectors. Unfortunately there is not enough demand for freighters to use up all these 767s. DL and AN both managed to offload their 767-200s for freighter conversion. Some airlines, such as AC and AA, can still fill the 767-200, but on longhaul or trans-con (three-class) routes, or BY on charter flights (Only 4). Sad to see these aircraft go, but ultimately they are worth more for parts rather than flying again.


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10594 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 19194 times:

I wonder what will happen with ACs 762s. Some are parked for 4 years now. Hardly thinkable they´ll fly again. I wonder why some aircraft are stored for a very long time without using them for spares. AC has 3 747-200 Combis parked since early 1999, 7 years by now. The oldest one apparently went to Kalitta recently, though it seems for parting out.

User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 18936 times:

Didn't Ansett order their initial 767's with a 3-man cockpit?

Maybe this is one of them.

As much as I love the 767, being too narrow for two side-by-side cargo pallets, it has very little use for cargo conversion. Some carriers do, but not on the scale like 747's and MD-11's.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineGARPD From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2604 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 18887 times:

IIRC Ansett got their 767s with a 3 man cockpit. This was later refitted with a 2 man cockpit.
But I think the real problem with these aircraft is that they are high cycle aicraft and of the non ER variant.



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlineLeelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 18864 times:

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 4):
Didn't Ansett order their initial 767's with a 3-man cockpit?

Maybe this is one of them.

From Picture Caption:

"When operated by Ansett this A/C was registered VH-RMO, a standard 2 man flight deck, as opposed to RMD-RMH, that operated with a F/E."


User currently offlineMuddydwagon From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 657 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 18833 times:

Quoting panama (Reply 4):
Didn't Ansett order their initial 767's with a 3-man cockpit?

Maybe this is one of them.

No this is not one with a F/E position as stated in the photo description. This bird was originally delivered to ILFC/Britannia.


Cheers Peter


User currently offlineJAM747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 550 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 18811 times:

Quoting NA (Thread starter):
The first two or three AA 767s have also been scrapped in recent months, and many more 767s are reportedly condemned to meet the axeman soon. 4 or 5 more AA-birds

What did AA replace those 767s with?


User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 15382 times:

Jam747, American replaced their 762s with existing 763s. They had 9 deliveries roughly 2 yrs ago, but the new 763s were to replace the ex-TWA's 763s, which were returned to the lessors. Given the massive downturn in the industry, American simply retired their oldest 767s. Regards.


"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 15177 times:

Quoting Muddydwagon (Reply 7):
This bird was originally delivered to ILFC/Britannia.

Just wanted to say that myself. BY was I believe the only 762 operator with two overwing exits.


User currently offlineDevil505x From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14921 times:

Somewhat off topic but...Why is there a car parked by the wing of the plane in the picture? Scrapman's? Airport Offical? It would be cool to drive through a storage facility like that on a daily basis.

User currently offlineETStar From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 2103 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14829 times:

Wasn't Ansett that had grounded its 767s on a couple of occasions following the finding of cracks on some types? Could this aircraft also be one of those that were affected?

User currently offlineFRAspotter From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14747 times:

Quoting Devil505x (Reply 11):
It would be cool to drive through a storage facility like that on a daily basis.

I don't know about you guys, but I would think that it would be depressing to see all those beautiful birds condemned to "die"....  Sad



"Drunks run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
User currently offlineRamerinianAir From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1486 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14668 times:

If the market find no new home for them, they will be scrapped for parts. The leasing companies will try REALLY hard to find them a new home. At this stage in the game, the A/C should be completely paid off thus, any monies collected would be pure profit. Leasing companies have also offered to convert and bring the A/C up to snuff if the airline signs a long contract. People just don't want those A/C and it costs some money to keep it parked and not rotting.
If those were 737s that were twice the age, I am sure they would have been eaten up REALLY quick!!!
SR



W N = my Worst Nightmare!!!!!
User currently offlineN747PA From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14560 times:

Obsolete 1649 Lockheed Constellations that were built in 1958 were scrapped in 1962.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21456 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 14465 times:

Yeah, a 762 non-ER is not exactly a plane anyone wants in their fleet anymore. Being short range, it was high cycle, has old interiors, least fuel efficient engines of the model range, etc.

Even at the time, the 762ER introduction basically killed of 762 demand.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAerospaceFan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 12101 times:

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 13):
Quoting Devil505x (Reply 11):

I don't know about you guys, but I would think that it would be depressing to see all those beautiful birds condemned to "die"....

I agree.  Sad It's a shame it's impossible for them to be preserved. Time takes its toll, even if you park them out in the most arid of deserts. (Sun damage alone could be a killer!)


User currently offlineSimpilicity From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10402 times:

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 1):
the older non-ER versions of the 767-200 aren't very popular on the 2nd hand market.

What's the main difference between a 762 & 762ER? (& also 763 & 763ER) Is it just long range fuel tanks? If so, can't these be retro fitted? Or is that too expensive?


User currently offlineMr AirNZ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2002, 847 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10326 times:

You must remember the 767 was designed as a medium range aircraft, desgined to do lots of hours, not so many cycles. Ansett used their aircraft on short Australian routes. These aircraft have very high cycles compared to most 767's of this age.

User currently offlineCalAir From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 298 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10016 times:

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
Just wanted to say that myself. BY was I believe the only 762 operator with two overwing exits

Yes you are right, but Braathens, the other European launch operator (albeit briefly) also had the 2 overwing exits. Vile interior though!


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British Caledonian...we never forget, you have a choice
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13008 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9834 times:

Don't forget too that if the age/cycles/hours were at certain numbers, then perhaps these a/c were due for major check(s) who's costs were not worth the investment and their poor resale value (for the variety of factors cited above). Add to that long storage times, undesirable configerations that both may have required a large investment and you may end up with an a/c worth more in parts then being sold whole.
Look, almost all aircraft have to die sometime and become scrap. We just can't keep all of them just to hang around for us to see.


User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9198 times:

Quoting CalAir (Reply 20):
Yes you are right, but Braathens, the other European launch operator (albeit briefly) also had the 2 overwing exits. Vile interior though!

Thanks for that info on Braathens and the overwing exists. I agree with you on the interior as well.  Wink


User currently offlineSkydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 957 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9050 times:

Quoting NA (Reply 3):
I wonder what will happen with ACs 762s. Some are parked for 4 years now. Hardly thinkable they´ll fly again.

Five 767-200 non-ERs are still listed as in service with AC now on the AC web site fleet list... Fin # 604, 611, 621, 622, 672


Maybe they are ready to be added to the fleet as seasonal or specific route demand requires more capacity than A320/A321. Also consider significant additional cargo capacity using 767 for some routes over narrow plane./



LD4



∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
User currently offlineDavid T From Canada, joined Nov 2001, 210 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8892 times:

ehhh, she's a fixer up 'er!  sarcastic 

25 Post contains links and images TSL1011 : This one certainly won't. I believe this bird is next in line... View Large View MediumPhoto © Mathieu Pouliot
26 777STL : Slightly OT, which 762 was the Gimli Glider? That plane belongs in a museum(I'm only half serious).
27 Skydrol : Fin# 604. Still in service today. Agree. That should be the final destination for 604. (Totally serious). If there's one 767-200 to preserve, this wo
28 Crank : That makes 2 non-ERs actually, 604 and 672. 611, 621 and 622 are all ERs.
29 Post contains links Skydrol : Sorry, I got the data from the AC fleet list , I guess the information is wrong. LD4
30 Sfomb67 : Ua has also rid itself of their 762's, although I saw them advertised as for sale about a month ago on a web site. Think they're getting too expensiv
31 DL787932ER : Nah, if there could be only one 762, it should be N102DA. But really, since that one's already slated for a museum, the Gimli Glider should also get
32 Post contains links DAL7e7 : They are for sale on the Controller Aircraft Sales website. There is about 17 Ex-UA 762's on there.
33 JAM747 : I believe the 3 man cockpit 767s were done for an Austrailian airline because at the time union laws required 3 man cockpit there. Maybe a Austrialia
34 Post contains links ClassicLover : This is correct. Not union laws, more union pressure. Ansett gave in to this pressure and Boeing created a 767 with a 3 man crew. This was because TA
35 Ckfred : The 767-200 just doesn't fit today's economics. It doesn't have trans-Atlantic range. It doesn't carry enough people to justify the expense of a fligh
36 Hawker : The Ansett 767 after lying around for years without a buyer, were sold specifically for scrapping. As a consequence the people who shortly earlier bou
37 BeechNut : I seem to recall hearing from an AC captain once that there is no significant difference between an ER and non-ER 762. They actually both have the sam
38 Post contains images Fanofjets : One more 767 shorty with dual overwing exits, this duo originally operated by Aeromaritime; later Balkan: Boeing 767-27E, F-GHGD Boeing 767-27E, F-GHG
39 Boeing767mech : One reason for the retirement of the Non-ER 200's we (American Airlines) flew is corrosion. I remember doing a A check on N301AA in LAX and finding a
40 EyeLN : the economics work for ABX Air which is making the 762 the new workhorse of its cargo fleet, and will have more than 40 flying by the end of 2009...w
41 Bmacleod : Are any former CP 763s parked? I remember AC had to park a few 763s as well as retire its older 762s.
42 JAM747 : Was this corrosion premature for that type of aircraft or did they have high hours or cycles?
43 CalAir : Thanks Fanofjets! Missed those birds! I understand that Aeromaritime were the charter arm of UTA and so the extra overwings were there due to the high
44 Post contains links and images Fanofjets : Dear CalAir, Many thanks for the compliment. I was thinking the same about the Balkan interiors. I think you are correct - both planes are currently w
45 Post contains images Fanofjets : An even newer plane appears to be awaiting the scrapman, this poor A320, formerly 5B-DAT of Cyprus Airways: Keeping her company at Opa Locka, by the w
46 Post contains images Skydrol : This is when that 'Star Alliance' 767 Fin#601 was the proud new addition to the AC fleet... (nice ribbon!)
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