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Song's First Class Seating  
User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6125 times:

It's been several months since DL made their announcement about discontinuing Song...but I haven't heard anything since. I have a bunch of post-May reservations, yet they haven't released any details about their seating, in flight services, etc. Their press releases have been so vague. Can anyone shed some light on this situation? In any case, I'm bound to DL, due to the 800,000 skymiles within the 3 members of my family  Smile


We Love To Fly And It Shows.
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHX757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6100 times:

http://www.flysong.com/song_and_you/letter/index.jsp

User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6083 times:

Thanks. I read that several months ago. That was the press release that didn't say much more than the number of seats they were putting in F  Wink I was wondering if anyone knew about meal service and/or when song would start showing their seatmaps which include 2-class seating.


We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6071 times:

Things still seem to be vague. So according to most information, first class will be offered on Song flights starting in Summer 2006. But there isn't any definitive information on when things will be changing over and when on what routes.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25724 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6002 times:

I think many are anxiously waiting to see what the post Song schedules will look like in many markets particularly on the transcon routes.
Will DL will continue trying to operate them at current frequencies, reduce to only provide some JFK feed, or drop them all together?

Its somewhat poor service I have to say, that DL has yet to load the real schedules and seating charts as customer indeed are staring to book beyond May. Currently still one sees the Song 19xx,20xx flight numbers and all economy B757 seat charts.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5944 times:

Yes, little confusing here, but, it is good to hear Delta's plans to add 26 first class seats on Song's planes. Hopefully the name of "Song" and Song paint scheme will keep on surfacing. I really like their colorful paint scheme...


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Airliners.net of the Future
User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5913 times:

Indeed. At this point I'd be afraid to make any long haul reservations, without seeing the actual seatmaps, despite that DL says the planes will be converted. I'm in the minority that makes plans 11 months in advance, so I didn't expect to see my May plans change right away. But now we're less than 4 months away, and still no changes, to flight numbers, times, seating, etc. When am I gonna get the info? April 30th? I have my assigned seats at 2ABC on all flights...I don't wanna check in on May 1st to see that, because of the new seating arrangements, I've been bumped to 34DEF :-P


We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2991 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5879 times:

Just yesterday Delta changed Song.com. Now, when looking up schedules, you are automatically taken to Delta.com - even for dates before the incorporation of Song into Delta.

I think that over the next few months we'll see Delta slowly getting rid of Song hype and phasing in the new product that they will be offering. I'd also expect some announcements in April(ish) on what exactly is going to happen.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5871 times:

As a post script....just checked the song website and they're making SOME progress. Their reservation system no longer exists, as well as their "better fare finder". Any reservations on the song website, whether's it's tomorrow, or 11 months from today, are now booked ONLY through delta.com.


We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineIflyatldl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1936 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5845 times:

I have a question and bear in mind I haven't had a chance to read any press releases; Why is DL folding SONG back entirely into DL. Is it a equitment utilization issue or just cost structure? I thought SONG had become successful. At least, by what I've seen at BOS,LAX and TPA. Excuse my ignorance.  Embarrassment


Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5820 times:

Cost structure. The cost maintaining an airline within an airline has always failed, especially now, with DL's current financial state. The most attractive features of song are still staying though (PTVs, MP3s, leather seats). As for the BOB meal service, haven't heard anything about that yet. But, by keeping everything under the DL brand, a lot of money is gonna be saved by a company that's $10B in debt.


We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineIflyatldl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1936 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5797 times:

Quoting: Reply 10, posted Sat Jan 14 2006 21:28:32 UTC+1 and read 3 times:


Cost structure. The cost maintaining an airline within an airline has always failed, especially now, with DL's current financial state. The most attractive features of song are still staying though (PTVs, MP3s, leather seats). As for the BOB meal service, haven't heard anything about that yet. But, by keeping everything under the DL brand, a lot of money is gonna be saved by a company that's $10B in debt.

I got ya! It's a shame, but I guess that's what happens when a company operates in denial as long as DL has. I wish them the best.



Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25724 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 5781 times:

Quoting DL4EVR (Reply 10):
Cost structure. The cost maintaining an airline within an airline has always failed

Actually in Songs case I would say it was more a problem of revenue.

Song did quite poor trying to fend off Jetblue.
For instance in the JFK-FLL market Song thru its short history was only able to get average yields in the 5.3-6.8 cent range, while Jetblue consistently had yields in between 8-9 cent range quarter after quarter. MCO for instance was much the same with Song in the 6.3-7.5 range, while Jetblue gathered between 9-10 cents.
Transcons were not much better, where DL prior to Song as is suffered weak RASM compared to fellow network carriers, Song only managed to drive them even lower.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5698 times:

Well, I'll give B6 this much....the A320 has what? 160 seats? The 757 Song configuration has 199 seats. Obviously it's a heck of a lot harder filling up 199 seats than 160 seats.


We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineJetBlueAtJFK From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1687 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5578 times:

Quoting DL4EVR (Reply 13):
Well, I'll give B6 this much....the A320 has what? 160 seats? The 757 Song configuration has 199 seats. Obviously it's a heck of a lot harder filling up 199 seats than 160 seats.

Yea but they can try to get to a close amount by leveling the frequency. For Example B6 has 156 seats on the 320 compared to Songs 199 So if you get 3 Song Flights which is about 600 seats and 4 B6 flights which is about 600 seats also so it is pretty close there, so I think that isn't a big factor.

I think it comes down to cost structure. It costs to convert planes and having the brand within a brand probably can't work in the long run in most cases. But if Song's loads were perfect they could have stayed forever because it would all balance out soon enough. So I think it has to do with cost structure and not perfect loads.

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 



When You Know jetBlue, You Know Better
User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5495 times:

In any case, I think one of the most major factors was the lack of F class seating on the long haul flights. I mean song lasted 2 wonderful years on the NY-FL routes. However, when they turned all JFK-LAX (and other transcontinental flights) to all-economy song, business travelers were probably pretty pissed. I mean, you go from being able to sit in a BusinessElite seat with 60" of pitch, to sitting in a (high grade) economy seat. People with the big bucks probably didn't like that. Hopefully (if more details are ever released!), DL's new long haul product will become the best in the industry. We just need to work on getting real glasses and tablecloths back in F!!!


We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineFLAIRPORT From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5393 times:

i think moving the reservations to delta.com is a big step and we may see some announcemnets/more changes in the near future.

User currently offlineJumbojet From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5378 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 4):
Its somewhat poor service I have to say, that DL has yet to load the real schedules

How is that poor service? They'll load the schedule in due time. May is still a good 4 months away.


User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5339 times:

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 17):

It's not really poor service. But May 1st is coming quickly, and although many people don't make their plans 11 months in advance, but many made them 3-4 months in advance, aka now. As FLAIRPORT said, seeing the reservation system transferred, is a good sign. I also noticed that song no longer has a $30 change fee. Delta.com now says that all domestic Delta AND Song Flights are $50 to change. Just one more step in the process of turning things over.



We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineAltairF28 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5005 times:

When I just looked for a schedule for mid-May I got the message saying that Song was becoming DL again May 1 but when I was transferred to delta.com the schedule still listed the flights as Song 20xx and the asterisks that came after the flight number denoted "operated by Delta". Are they intentionally trying to confuse people?


A detour is a choice between two tasks, each with its own pros and cons
User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 4934 times:

Quoting AltairF28 (Reply 19):
When I just looked for a schedule for mid-May I got the message saying that Song was becoming DL again May 1 but when I was transferred to delta.com the schedule still listed the flights as Song 20xx and the asterisks that came after the flight number denoted "operated by Delta". Are they intentionally trying to confuse people?

Now try looking up a schedule for *December* 1...come back with the results...haha. (aka song 19/20xx op. by Delta Air Lines)



We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2571 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3452 times:

There is still no word on when or where the Song aircraft will get the mod to install the first class seats. It will take months to do the entire fleet, so don't expect all flights to get first anywhere near the change over date.

User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2772 times:

Oh...I heard from a few sources that all the planes used on the CURRENT routes will be converted by May 1, so before the total switchover to Delta, you might be flying in "first class style" seats on song, but still getting coach service. I heard after the initial switchover, they will gradually convert more aircraft to deploy on 1750 miles+ routes.


We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineGkpetery From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2691 times:

from the press release, Song is getting first class and going to be transcon only. Sounds like they are targeting United p.s. service.

User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2643 times:

Quoting Gkpetery (Reply 23):
from the press release, Song is getting first class and going to be transcon only. Sounds like they are targeting United p.s. service.

No, yet while I heard that "song service" is going to be taking over all their transcon flights eventually, the NY-Florida flights will continue to be serviced with "song service". They worked so hard on trying to compete with B6...and now they're gonna throw it away and put us back on MD-88's? Come on....logic. Anywho, I THINK DL might've come up with a tentative date for new flight schedules. I was checking some schedules in the downloadable DL Flight Schedules application, and it said "these flights are only valid for flights up until Feb. 15, 2006". Hm...let's hope for the best!



We Love To Fly And It Shows.
25 DL4EVR : One other thing I noticed....the press release says 26 F seats as opposed to the 24 that are on DL's standard 757. Is this a typo or are they planning
26 DeltAirlines : On Song configured planes, they did remove the front closet, however, where the galley is in the rear of what would be the F cabin, there is a closet
27 DL4EVR : Wait...do you actually have diagrams of the Delta "song service" configured planes?
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