Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Is Air Nostrum Happy With The First CRJ900?  
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2205 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8444 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

There are very few pictures of the CRJ900 in Air Nostrum (Iberia Regional) colours on the internet (granted, they've only had it for 6-8 weeks, but still...) but apparently the aircraft is flying regular services.

Do anyone here have any hot gossip about its performance so far?

Any suggestions as to why Air Nostrum delayed introducing the CRJ900 for about 5 years? They were one of the launch customers in 2000 when they ordered 8 aircraft...

 Smile


Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8350 times:

When working for Denim Air in Spain (operating for Air Nostrum) I heard the rumour that Air Nostrum wasn't allowed by Iberia to operate aircraft with more than 70 seats. But don't pin me on it...

User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6240 posts, RR: 34
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8336 times:

Quoting CRJ900 (Thread starter):
Any suggestions as to why Air Nostrum delayed introducing the CRJ900 for about 5 years? They were one of the launch customers in 2000 when they ordered 8 aircraft...

The CRJ900's first delivery was only 3 years ago to Mesa. FYI, Air Nostrum was not a "launch" customer. And it is true that Air Nostrum was limited by Iberia as to the size of aircraft they could fly.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8288 times:

Can anybody confirm that there is/ was a scope clause preventing ANS from operating larger types? There were wild rumors that the airline was supposed to get IB's old MD-87's in order to start a LCC-style operation a while ago, which could indicate that these limitations (if existing) have now been waived.

Additionally, ANS is leasing several WDL BAe-146's with about 90 seats each, so there must be at least an exemption for leased aircraft.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlinePlanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6240 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8256 times:

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 3):
Can anybody confirm that there is/ was a scope clause preventing ANS from operating larger types? There were wild rumors that the airline was supposed to get IB's old MD-87's

A year ago Iberia and Air Nostrum were in talks to change the conditions of its franchising contract in order to start operating larger aircraft which limited Air Nostrum to using aircraft with max capacity for 70 pax. That must have led to the wild rumour about them getting IB's 109-seat MD-87s. Anyhow, they are now flying the CRJ900 (EC-JNB) in addition to the single leased BAe 146-200 (D-AMGL ).



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineAcelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 843 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8242 times:

Hi
Where is the CRJ900 planned to operate and when is the next one due?
A lot of the Iberia MD87 have passed onto Spanair now, so
will the LCC not now happen?

cheers
Acelanzarote



from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8240 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

This wednesday I will take the CR9 flight in it's sole route at this moment: VLC-SVQ. This aircraft surprised me because there are 7 rows configured in Business Class.

I only seen this configuration in the european Air Nostrum flights (where there aren't any difference on board between Business and Economy Class) and in the leased aircraft of other operators as WDL 142 and 143's.

I don't heard any nottice about to operate aircrafts of more of 70 seats but this aircraft could be the life-guard that BCN has waiting in the last two years.

Iberia is leaving routes as ZRH, GVA, DUS, HAM, HAJ,... in hand of YW aircrafts. If we compare the M87 or 320 that operated these routes with the CRJ or DH3 now flying is a great reduction in the seats offered in peak routes. IIs this new aircraft to operate the routes left by Iberia as mentioned???

I will explain this wednesday how CR9's are!!!

Regards,

RAFVC10



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8230 times:

Quoting Acelanzarote (Reply 5):
Where is the CRJ900 planned to operate and when is the next one due?

I have also seen the CR9 scheduled on one of the daily MAD-SDR rotations.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2393 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8173 times:

Quoting Planemaker (Reply 4):
A year ago Iberia and Air Nostrum were in talks to change the conditions of its franchising contract in order to start operating larger aircraft which limited Air Nostrum to using aircraft with max capacity for 70 pax. That must have led to the wild rumour about them getting IB's 109-seat MD-87s. Anyhow, they are now flying the CRJ900 (EC-JNB) in addition to the single leased BAe 146-200 (D-AMGL ).

Have the other three BAe 146s been returned to WDL in the meantime?



Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8147 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 7):
I have also seen the CR9 scheduled on one of the daily MAD-SDR rotations.

For this route Air Nostrum not operate this aircraft. CR9 sole aircraft is used in VLC-SVQ-VLC routes.



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 763 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8109 times:

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 7):
I have also seen the CR9 scheduled on one of the daily MAD-SDR rotations.

Well, that'd be news to me. YW has 3 Bae's wet-leased from WDL

143 for SDR-MAD-LEI (3x SDR-MAD and 1x MED-LEI)
142 for BIO-AGP
143 for BIO-VLC-AGP (and sundays 1x VLC-IBZ)

That was from september... I've seen the first 143 will be exclusive for SDR-MAD from march making 4x daily each way...

Its configured with 3 business rows... It really weird to see an IB business counter in SDR   since YW has always flown single class so-called "Regional business class"....

I don't see so much future to the biz class from SDR...

Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 8):
Have the other three BAe 146s been returned to WDL in the meantime?

I don't see BAe146's in the timetable for BIO-AGP nor BIO-VLC so i supposse there's only one left for SDR-MAD (how important we are )

Quoting Acelanzarote (Reply 5):
Where is the CRJ900 planned to operate and when is the next one due?

I bet they'll go to the routes previously operated by the Bae's or they will take over an IB M87 route like MAD-ZRH or much likely BCN-Europe routes


There are two great interviews with Carlos Bartolomeu talking about the future of aviation/Iberia/Air Nostrum and how Air Nostrum has become what it is now... (spanish)

Puede que no todas las aerolíneas sobrevivan a la reducción de márgenes Las provincias Oct23-05

Si Iberia se constipa, Air Nostrum tose El Pais Jan8-06

Let me quote the phases Air Nostrum has passed to become a suscesful Iberia Regional franchise

1) Fly low traffic routes (middle-sized spanish cities) to feed IB's MAD and BCN hubs
2) Fly European middle-sized cities to feed IB's MAD hub
3) (current) Fly point to point regional routes within Spain without transiting MAD (and he adds "without harming IB")
4) (future) Fly point to point regional routes between Spain and Europe

Although i see a 5th point which will be taking over Iberia's low density European routes from BCN now it's not considered a hub for IB (with CR9 being the key for that purpose)

[Edited 2006-01-15 14:48:01]

User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2205 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8039 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 6):
I will explain this wednesday how CR9's are!!!

I'm looking forward to read that already  Smile



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7913 times:

Will Air Nostrum use the new CRJ900 to Melilla? can the airport there handle these jets?

User currently offlineAisak From Spain, joined Aug 2005, 763 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7880 times:

The runway is 4685ft long (1428m) so i don't think it can handle it

For today planning (monday 16) there are 4x ATR72 and 3x DH8-300 to AGP... quite busy but not too much. I don't think they plan to set a CRJ for a 112 nm route either

Altough they're are having baggage restrictions when the planes are full... don't know if the CRJ900 could solve this issue


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7785 times:

So not even the 146 or the CRJ200 to Melilla? Do Air Nostrum/Iberia provide flights to Mellila from Madrid or Barcelona, airports that are further away and therefore would suit the CRJ900?

How much runway does a CRJ900 need? After all they are meant for regional airline operations so one would think that they could handle shorter runways!


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7767 times:

I've always read on here that the longer models of CRJ were underpowered. I've heard they have VERY slow climb and takeoff performance - also read somewhere about them struggling to maintain altitudes at near-ceiling levels.

I'll have a look/search and see if I can dig up the posts.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineLevent From France, joined Sep 2004, 1718 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7703 times:

The only airline that operated jets to Melilla was PauknAir with BAe 146's, until one of the two aircraft crashed approaching MLN. A far as I know the CRJ200 can't operate there.
The Fokker 50 was the only Air Nostrum aircraft that could operate Madrid-Melilla back and forth with a full load because of its good range. The Dash 8 couldn't do it because of its range limitations and no fuel in Melilla, and the ATR72 could only do it with limited payload.
I am talking about the time I worked for Denim Air in Spain, until January 2004, so I am not sure what the exact situation at Melilla is right now.


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7691 times:

Interesting side information about MLN, Levent.  Smile I'll be flying MAD-MLN-AGP-MAD in April, so I hope to learn and see more about this operation by then.


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineAcelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 843 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 7613 times:

Does anyone know how many CRJ900's Air Nostrum has on order?


[quote=RAFVC10,reply=6]I will explain this wednesday how CR9's are!!!
Look forward to what you have to say.

Also how many more CRJ200 are Air Nostrum taking, see one
reported on Delivery At Birmingham UK this morning.

cheers
AceLanzarote



from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7582 times:

AFAIK, ANS has 12 CR9 on order.


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineRootsAir From Costa Rica, joined Feb 2005, 4186 posts, RR: 40
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7548 times:

Quoting RAFVC10 (Reply 6):
n hand of YW aircrafts. If we compare the M87 or 320 that operated these routes with the CRJ or DH3 now flying is a great reduction in the seats offered in peak routes. IIs this new aircraft to operate the routes left by Iberia as mentioned???

This would be amazing....flew BCN-GVA on YW and got business class service! Amazing flight it was !



A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7524 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 20):
This would be amazing....flew BCN-GVA on YW and got business class service! Amazing flight it was !

Hi RootsAir,

sorry for the missunderstanding but YW, in european flights, serves all its flights in a sole cabin. You must book and issue a ticket in "C" class to GVA, HAJ, HAM, ZRH,... and think you will fly in Business Class, as same of all flights of Iberia (320, 321, 319, M87,...) but the answer is NOOOOOO!!!!!

The only difference between "C" class and "Y" class in all YW flights are theredemption of milles in your Frequent Flyer card and access to VIP lounges. Resuming, you may fly in your YW flight with an "C" class and at your side could be a passenger with a "Q" class (the lowest class in IB flights).

Very, very dissapointing...



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 7512 times:

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 15):
I've always read on here that the longer models of CRJ were underpowered. I've heard they have VERY slow climb and takeoff performance - also read somewhere about them struggling to maintain altitudes at near-ceiling levels.

From what I've read:

CRJ200 has no leading edge slats, and needs more runway. There's nothing wrong with its climb performance up to 15,000 feet, but after that it gets a little sluggish and takes time to get to the high 30s. They are certified to 41K, but very rarely ever get there. I think for practical purposes they top out at 38K.

CRJ700 has leading edge slats and has a take-off/climb performance similar to a 757 -- very sporty. CRJ900 isn't quite as sporty because it's heavier with basically same engines as 700. Both stretch models are much better performers than the original 200.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineCRJ900 From Norway, joined Jun 2004, 2205 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7478 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Levent (Reply 1):
When working for Denim Air in Spain (operating for Air Nostrum) I heard the rumour that Air Nostrum wasn't allowed by Iberia to operate aircraft with more than 70 seats. But don't pin me on it...

Air Nostrum and BBD signed a big contract on April 10, 2000 for 29 Q300 and 15 CR2ER plus 40 options for all Q models, CR2, CR7 and CR9 (source: BBD Regional Update April-May 2000). If their "scope clause" allowed up to 70 seats, I wonder why they didn't order the Q400 and CR7... they would have been great assets, I'm sure... very economical too...



Quoting Arrow (Reply 22):
CRJ700 has leading edge slats and has a take-off/climb performance similar to a 757 -- very sporty. CRJ900 isn't quite as sporty because it's heavier with basically same engines as 700. Both stretch models are much better performers than the original 200.

The CR9 has engines with 14,510 lbs thrust, the CR7 was delivered with engines having 13,780 lbs but from 2005 the CR7 is delivered with the same engine powering the CR9 but derated to 13,790 lbs - apparently making the engine more economical. The CR9 now comes with an Enhanced Performance Package which allows better take-off and landing capabilites, increased payload and range while burning less fuel (source: Flight International, 2-8 Nov 2004 and BBD Regional Update March 2005).

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 19):
AFAIK, ANS has 12 CR9 on order.

Fantastic - that means 25 CR9s will grace our European skies eventually (Air Nostrum's 12, Styrian's 1 and LH's 12). Me like, yes  Smile



Come, fly the prevailing winds with me
User currently offlineRAFVC10 From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 7470 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Levent (Reply 16):
The Fokker 50 was the only Air Nostrum aircraft that could operate Madrid-Melilla back and forth with a full load because of its good range. The Dash 8 couldn't do it because of its range limitations and no fuel in Melilla, and the ATR72 could only do it with limited payload

Sorry????? Only F50's operates MLN??? I see DH3, AT7 operating from MLN.



El dia que los gilipollas vuelen, no podremos ver la luz del sol!
25 Post contains images TriStar500 : Please read again with more care, then you will understand that Levent is talking about payload limitations.
26 Planemaker : FYI, for commonality the 700 now has the same engine as the 900... CF34-8C5. The same goes with the gear and wing structure.
27 RootsAir : sorry I don't get it.. I had booked SVQ-BCN-GVA with an economy class fare...and service was buisiness class...I mean I don't know what's disappoitin
28 CRJ900 : I just looked at BBD's CRJ order list ending Dec 31, 2005 and they list that Air Nostrum has only ordered one CR9 - which has been delivered... Just
29 RAFVC10 : Hi all from Seville, Today I have flown with the new CR9 aircraft from VLC to SVQ. Great flight, great aircraft and all perfect. The take off has bee
30 CRJ900 : RAFVC10: can you please tell us a little about how Air Nostrum has furnished the CR9 cabin... like, leather seats or cloth seats, how many lavs and ga
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
The First CRJ900 For Myair posted Mon Oct 23 2006 19:24:02 by Gabypn1992
What Is Air Scotland Doing With Fleet? posted Thu Aug 17 2006 22:01:00 by Dogfighter2111
Will Air Portugal Stick With The A350XWB? posted Fri Jul 21 2006 19:20:26 by FCKC
Is Alaska Airlines Disappointed With The 737-900? posted Mon Jun 21 2004 17:49:30 by John
Where Is That Jungle Airport With The "bumpy" Rwy? posted Sat Nov 8 2003 21:17:06 by Mozart
Air New Zealand Ordered The First Ever B 747-400? posted Thu Jun 27 2002 07:17:47 by United Airline
When Is Alitalia Going To Get The First 777? posted Thu Nov 1 2001 11:12:19 by 777-500ER
Is Air Canada Still Getting The A321s? posted Fri Jul 6 2001 16:23:15 by YQTYYZ
Is Air Wisconsin Interested In The Avro Rjx? posted Sun Mar 4 2001 21:28:05 by BA
Is SIA Not Happy With Their A340s? Why? posted Mon Nov 27 2000 10:38:28 by Red Panda
Is Air Canada Happy With The E190? posted Tue Dec 26 2006 05:01:17 by CirrusDriver
First Air France B77W With The New Revised Livery posted Tue Mar 31 2009 05:36:28 by FlySSC
Is AY Not Happy With E170's? posted Mon May 24 2010 08:50:08 by bjorn14
Air Europa Happy With Early MIA-TFN Results posted Mon May 25 2009 21:22:08 by MAH4546
What Will Air Berlin Do With The 757? posted Sat Mar 29 2008 03:07:51 by Columba
Is TAM In Trouble With The Law? posted Wed Mar 12 2008 06:30:44 by Columbia107
Is DL 119 Operated With The Upgraded 763s? posted Sat Apr 7 2007 01:53:43 by Ushermittwoch
The First CRJ900 For Myair posted Mon Oct 23 2006 19:24:02 by Gabypn1992
What Is Air Scotland Doing With Fleet? posted Thu Aug 17 2006 22:01:00 by Dogfighter2111
Will Air Portugal Stick With The A350XWB? posted Fri Jul 21 2006 19:20:26 by FCKC