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BIG Troubles At SAS  
User currently offlineMischadee From Sweden, joined Apr 2004, 271 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11426 times:

Hi!

Almost all the major newspapers in Sweden today reports that SAS neglected to inspect the engines on 10 out of 11 long-haul Airbus planes last year. The authority's are taking this very serious and there may be some serious action taken against the company.

Furthermore, http://www.expressen.se reports that SAS had problems with passengers fainting on row 17 on the airbuses as a result of lack of oxygen. Hmm I'm flying ARN-EWR on Wednesday. Lucky for me I'm in row 33 and the inspections on the planes have now been made but way to late.

Sources in Swedish only: http://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=506241

http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.j...=554&a=513279&previousRenderType=6

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,763091,00.html

Mischa


ARNiboy
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11385 times:

This is truely big trouble. But I guess they'll not only feel the heat from the local CAAs in Sweden, Norway and Denmark, but the JAA and quite possibly the FAA might have a word on that as well (in some instances, not all of course). Those are serious safety flaws and the fact that SK didn't comply with safety and MX standards is just frightening to me.

User currently offlineSolnabo From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 852 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11221 times:

In english:

http://www.thelocal.se/article.php?I...D=1828edf581cbcd0aaf1b7f18cc25955f

Scary!

Micke//SE Sad



Airbus SAS - Love them both
User currently offlineSK909 From Denmark, joined Nov 2005, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11120 times:

Well, it is scary!
I remember SK had some problems maintaining some DC9/MD80 engines some years ago.
There is no explaining of this. Let's just hope that this is a one time incedent.

BUT it doen't scare my. I will still fly SK...



Life's for Living!
User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11071 times:

People fainting on row 17 due to a missing engine inspection, sounds a little far fetched, if you ask me .....  Yeah sure

However, this is very embarrassing for SAS. But let the authorities find out what happened and let them and SAS work out a solution to make sure this doesn't happen again.



- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlineMischadee From Sweden, joined Apr 2004, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11031 times:

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 4):
People fainting on row 17 due to a missing engine inspection, sounds a little far fetched, if you ask me .....

Sorry if I wasn't clear. The fainting was a separate incident that had to do with a faulty air-condition system that SAS has reported to Airbus and they are trying to fix it as it would be a disaster if the same thing happens to the pilots during flight.

Mischa.



ARNiboy
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10871 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

SK used to be very nice and glamorous. Nowadays, it seems the media finds every little thing wrong with them. Not saying missing maintenance is "little", but they just seem to always make it front page news.


911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2752 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10677 times:

SAS has also had some engine shutdowns on their A330 since introduction. How many more in flight engine shutdown with a following diversion are they permitted before they will experience ETOPS restrictions?


Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineCabso1 From Canada, joined May 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10168 times:

Pretty scary! I wouldn't want to be with them at 35000 feet in the middle of the Atlantic. Very unprofessional of them to neglect the engine inspections.

User currently offlineCXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10087 times:

Hmm..........maintainance doesn't seem to be SK's only problem these days.........according to a thread a few weeks back, SK seems to be losing money on all its long-haul routes.

Sad to see another airline slipping downhill..........



The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
User currently offlineAviasian From Singapore, joined Jan 2001, 1486 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9969 times:

European aviation authorities including the DGAC of France were quick off the mark in banning airlines from other continent for sloppy maintenance among other reasons.

Is this kind of action likely to be taken against SAS - now that this comes from within?

KC Sim


User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2392 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9929 times:
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Actually you CAN reduce the rate of oxygen in the cabin ambient air mix. This way you might consume less fuel. The results/first symptoms for the pax/crew is headache.

This is theory (though some airlines have been rumoured to do so...) but it is an Airbus Senior captain who told me that.

FB.



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offlineBirdbrainz From United States of America, joined May 2005, 463 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9451 times:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 6):
SK used to be very nice and glamorous. Nowadays, it seems the media finds every little thing wrong with them. Not saying missing maintenance is "little", but they just seem to always make it front page news.

Yeah. I remember those days.

SAS is on the sh*# list right now, just that same way that Southwest is a darling of the industry. Any little thing that goes wrong at SAS is going to get a lot of attention. Also, the media has a way of getting things mixed up.

All that said, I'd really like to see what happened. It sure doesn't sound good.

Quoting Cabso1 (Reply 8):
Pretty scary! I wouldn't want to be with them at 35000 feet in the middle of the Atlantic. Very unprofessional of them to neglect the engine inspections.

Lucky for them that they're A340s have four very reliable engines. It's still not good, though.



A good landing is one you can walk away from. A great landing is if the aircraft can be flown again.
User currently offlineCPH757 From Denmark, joined Sep 2005, 684 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9300 times:

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 9):
Hmm..........maintainance doesn't seem to be SK's only problem these days.........according to a thread a few weeks back, SK seems to be losing money on all its long-haul routes.

I don't know why this is the ongoing belief in this forum, but actually they have improved a lot. Just take a look in the latest interim financial report for Q3/05, which is available here: http://www.sasgroup.net/SASGroup/default.asp

They have a load factor on the international flights on 80%, and the EBITDAR and EBIT margin on the internationals are actually both around 17%. I know this indicator is not always consistent, but in this case it tells that the running operations in fact earn.

SAS Denmark and SAS Sweden however are loosing money, while the Norwegian part (Braathens) is earning qiute well.



Last flight: SAW-CPH on H9 on 02/11/09 - Next Flights: 23/12/09 CPH-AAL on QI, 30/12/09 CPH-LHR on SK, 19/01/10 CPH-CDG-
User currently offlineJohnKrist From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 1399 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7996 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD SUPPORT

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 6):
SK used to be very nice and glamorous. Nowadays, it seems the media finds every little thing wrong with them. Not saying missing maintenance is "little", but they just seem to always make it front page news.

Yup, SK used to be great, today it's more and more tending to be an airline with the service of low cost airlines and pricing of premium airline.

Also, Swedish media is quick to write stuff like this, 'cause nothin much happens here. And we Scandinavians (at least Swedes) usually think that we are the best at everything, and as soon as a flaw is discovered, or we do not collect the gold we had seen as ours long beforehand, media bangs their "fiasco drum". Still it's sad when our pride SAS sets safety aside, for whatever reason.



5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, Metz 58-AF1
User currently offlineRIXrat From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 789 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6920 times:

As an SK fan, I am dismayed at the lack of competence at SAS regarding service. I forget which one of the above articles mentioned it, but SK's excuse about maintenance is that the people who do it were farmed out contractors and not SK staff. Here we have it again. Just a few days ago we had the Alaska incident (no, two) and everyone seems to sub-contract and the sub-contractor seems also to sub-contract.

As far as the fainting on row 17, it seems to me that is a little overblown. If I'm not mistaken air/oxygen in a cabin circulates throughout the whole cabin and has nothing to do which seat or row that you are located. The Expressen article, though, did point out that if this happens on the enclosed flight deck, it is a very dangerous situation.

Sideline. Where did Helios send their remaining aircraft to be checked out? To SAS Stockholm, I believe.

Emil


User currently offlineMatt27 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6745 times:

Quoting RIXrat (Reply 15):
As far as the fainting on row 17, it seems to me that is a little overblown.

Yes, Swedish tabloids want things to be worse than what they really are.

Where are the MX for the SAS 330/340 fleet performed?


User currently offlineBuckieboy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6470 times:

All,

Just my 5 Rappen here before I fly on an SK codeshare flight tomorrow!

As a trained and validated risk assessor (including business risk), whilst I sympathise with the "scary" comments, in a way I disagree.

The link may put my thoughts into context and I won't waste any effort with additional voiceover:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-04/12/content_322695.htm

It can be argued that SAS are either incompetent or negligent and in law, the latter is a serious accusation to make.

However, given that all their aircraft have at least two engines, do we really believe that the public's safety was ever jeopardised?

As an engineer, scientist and risk assessor, I believe this not to be the case.

Of course, people are entitled to walk with their feet and I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I favour LH over LX over BA for a whole host of reasons.  wink 

Cheers

Buckieboy


User currently offlineRJ100 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2000, 4119 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6401 times:

Quoting Buckieboy (Reply 17):
Just my 5 Rappen here before I fly on an SK codeshare flight tomorrow!

Let me guess? Cimber? Enjoy your flight. They are nice.

Regards,
RJ100



none
User currently offlineBuckieboy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6309 times:

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 18):
Let me guess? Cimber? Enjoy your flight. They are nice.

Regards,
RJ100

Genau!

Cheers

Buckieboy

(Apologies if this breaks the site's language code)

PS We need to have several beers sometime!  yes .


User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6242 times:

Quoting Birdbrainz (Reply 12):
Any little thing that goes wrong at SAS is going to get a lot of attention. Also, the media has a way of getting things mixed up.

I'm sure our friends over at Alaska Airlines can relate.  Yeah sure

As far as losing money on long haul routes, well...they are quite a bit pricier than their competition. When I was pricing SEA-FCO, I would have though SK would be in there as an option, via CPH. But, no. Maybe they don't publish on Expedia? I went to their main website and it locked up my computer.


User currently offlineSKA380 From Norway, joined Jun 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5559 times:

It's very sad to see SAS sink to this level indeed. They used to be top notch when it came to MX work.

The Scandinavian aviation authority's are even threatening to revoke their operating license if this is not corrected immediately.

I read in an article on www.hangar.no (sorry, in Norwegian) this morning where someone from SAS commented that "we have now had all the checks carried out, and we didn't find any fault. So our customers has been completely safe flying with us." hehe
That's easy to say now, after they performed the checks. There's no way they could have known that before this got to the media, and the planes were still flying without the checks.
The article seems to have been removed now, and replaced with a different.

Leif


User currently offlineAviationwiz From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 962 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5370 times:

If the problem with fainting in row 17 would have happened in the US, the airline would have had the pants sued off of them.


Proudly from the Home of the Red Tail.
User currently offlineMischadee From Sweden, joined Apr 2004, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5245 times:

Quoting Aviationwiz (Reply 22):
If the problem with fainting in row 17 would have happened in the US, the airline would have had the pants sued off of them.

Apparently the airline paid of the passangers who were affected according to the article.

Mischa.



ARNiboy
User currently offlineFlybynight From Norway, joined Jul 2003, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 5214 times:

Quoting StevenUhl777 (Reply 20):
As far as losing money on long haul routes, well...they are quite a bit pricier than their competition. When I was pricing SEA-FCO, I would have though SK would be in there as an option, via CPH. But, no. Maybe they don't publish on Expedia? I went to their main website and it locked up my computer.

Not really. SK is offering flights from SEA - OSL for about $1000 US this summer. The same ticket on UA was $1300.



Heia Norge!
25 Jetdeltamsy : This is extremely serious and I am shocked that it happened at SAS. There is no excuse for such a lapse in management. Heads should roll.
26 Brilondon : The FAA would only be interested in those aircraft that are flying to the United States. The JAA standard seem to be more stringent then the FAA. Wou
27 Scalebuilder : Completely agree with you. The question becomes.....who within SAS ordered these cut-backs? I simply can't imagine, and it is hard to believe, that t
28 WhiteHatter : Funnily enough one of the A330 fleet was recently flown empty to MAN and given a check there. Wonder if it's related to this. I did find it strange t
29 SKA380 : What does STS CPH do? I thought they were the ones who were supposed to manage the MX on the longhaul fleet. Leif
30 Georgetown : " target=_blank>http://www.sasgroup.net/SASGroup/def...t.asp I'm exhausted, so I only spent about 10 minutes reviewing their financials, but without g
31 HZ747300 : It was also in the book Air Babylon that they do this, though the airline in question was never named. Makes sense, less oxygen = sleepy passengers.
32 Scalebuilder : Read your article about traffic accidents in China as a background to your post. Looks to me that road accidents in China are expected to go up becau
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