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Are AA/DL Gonna Give BOS To B6?  
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4881 times:

Just wondering, lately it seems lately that JB is doing really good out of BOS well AA and DL are kinda slow to catch up and are letting JB beat them. Well they let JB take over? Just tell me what you all think  Smile


http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4842 times:

So is everybody just leaving US alone?

-SOAC



Non Illegitimi Carborundum
User currently onlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4804 times:

Why would ANYONE invest in the stock of a company that just GIVES BUSINESS away to the competition? These carriers, I guess, have concluded that to compete and fight is the wrong way to go. I'll be looking for a "free share of AA or DL stock with my next purchase of Shredded Wheat."

User currently offlineFL1TPA From United States of America, joined May 2004, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4789 times:

Honestly I don't think anyone needs to give B6 more room. Have you seen thier ticket counters and gate space in BOS? It's E-N-O-R-M-I-G-A-N-T-I-C!

FL1TPA



"Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop sniffin' glue."
User currently offlineSRQCrosscheck From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 211 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4764 times:

B6 might be a victim of their own success. Everyone loved them when they had their own security portal in Terminal E; you never had to wait. Now they're busier and in C; maybe not so rosy anymore?

User currently offlineNavairjax From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4730 times:

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 1):
So is everybody just leaving US alone?

Considering the route structure at B6, I don't think CO, NW, and US are exactly as much of a target as AA, DL, and UA. Yes there is an impact for all but I'd say if any LCC at BOS is targeting US it would be FL, not B6.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6733 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4670 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 2):
These carriers, I guess, have concluded that to compete and fight is the wrong way to go.

Maybe these carriers have finally started to realize that being number one in marketshare isn't so important. Or maybe they've realized it isn't worth fighting for all the $99 transcon leisure fare crowd.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 2):
Why would ANYONE invest in the stock of a company that just GIVES BUSINESS away to the competition?

What if the business you are giving away is business you can't make money on? Is Nordstrom's giving away business by not trying to sell all their clothes for cheap like Walmart?


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4614 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 2):
Why would ANYONE invest in the stock of a company that just GIVES BUSINESS away to the competition? These carriers, I guess, have concluded that to compete and fight is the wrong way to go. I'll be looking for a "free share of AA or DL stock with my next purchase of Shredded Wheat."

On what are you basing this comment? On this?

Quoting MD90fan (Thread starter):
Just wondering, lately it seems lately that JB is doing really good out of BOS well AA and DL are kinda slow to catch up and are letting JB beat them. Well they let JB take over? Just tell me what you all think

He gives no stats or any evidence to back up his claim, including passenger loads, yields, etc.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26815 posts, RR: 75
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4590 times:

Quoting Navairjax (Reply 5):
Considering the route structure at B6, I don't think CO, NW, and US are exactly as much of a target as AA, DL, and UA

I don't think UA is particularly a target. UA does hub flights, which will always be popular in a large business market like BOS, so they are pretty safe.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently onlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4515 times:

Rick Pitino, when he was coaching the Boston Celtics, was livid in a press conference, trying to defend his team against mounting criticism. "Folks...Larry Bird is not walkin' through that door. Kevin McHale is not walkin' through that door either." His point was clear: Those days are over, so stop complaining about the way things are now.

Airlines are the same way. The legacy carriers are going through all sorts of gyrations--big jets down to little lawn darts; pulling out of cities entirely--in futile attempts to maximize profits. The message to them is JUST as clear: "Folks...those $1,000 transcon fares aren't walkin' through that door."

I'm sorry, but if the LCCs can get you from sea to shining sea for $99 don't tell ME that $1,000 is really what I ought to be paying. My job isn't to fund an out-of-whack cost structure. If some carrier can do it for $99, then that becomes the new price floor. It becomes what people are willing to pay. It becomes the VALUE for that service. The legacy carriers are shedding whatever differentiation they earned along the way (pillows, anyone?), so they need to provide their service at the $99 end of the spectrum...not the $1,000 end. That extra $900 is buying you nothing, anyway.

If the legacy carriers are just biding their time until we start accepting $1,000 fares again, they're snapping. The genie is out of the bottle...folks.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6733 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4452 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 9):
I'm sorry, but if the LCCs can get you from sea to shining sea for $99 don't tell ME that $1,000 is really what I ought to be paying. My job isn't to fund an out-of-whack cost structure. If some carrier can do it for $99, then that becomes the new price floor. It becomes what people are willing to pay.

I don't think the legacies expect fares to return to $1,000. However, I think they are starting to realize they can't serve everyone. They have to find a niche. DL would much rather have their BOS-ATL flights filled with passengers going to high yield international markets OR secondary markets that LCC's can't reach, then filled with $59 fares to FLL or $99 to PHX. Of course, DL will still have to offer some cheap fares, but the quantity will be far fewer. If DL tries to compete head to head with B6 solely on price, they will never succeed as DL's costs just can't get as low as B6.

Take a look at Continental. They provide limited service to BOS, so does that mean they aren't competitive? No. It just means CO has realized they don't need to be BIG in every market they serve. In fact, outside of IAH, CLE, EWR and GUM, CO is a relatively small player in practically every market. All they offer are flights to the hubs. Despite being such a small player, CO has faired better than most and will probably return to sustained profitability first.


User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3633 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4413 times:

""Folks...Larry Bird is not walkin' through that door. Kevin McHale is not walkin' through that door either." His point was clear: Those days are over, so stop complaining about the way things are now"


Bravo Chris! Well said. Welcome to my Respected Users list.

PJ


User currently offlinePanAm330 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2693 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4262 times:

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 1):
So is everybody just leaving US alone?

Ever heard of Southwest  Wink?

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 10):
CO is a relatively small player in practically every market. All they offer are flights to the hubs.

Except for LAX. They offer some XJT flights to Mexico.


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (8 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4257 times:

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 9):
Rick Pitino, when he was coaching the Boston Celtics, was livid in a press conference, trying to defend his team against mounting criticism. "Folks...Larry Bird is not walkin' through that door. Kevin McHale is not walkin' through that door either." His point was clear: Those days are over, so stop complaining about the way things are now.

Good analogy. Like the legacy CEO's who have come and gone taking their golden parachutes and leaving the industry in the state it is in today, Pitino took his $50 million and bolted after posting a 102-146 record. In his wake he left a once proud franchise which has been a wreck ever since.


User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4075 times:

Hopefully we'll see DL do some expanding out of BOS  Smile


http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineVegasplanes From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 778 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4034 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 10):
I don't think the legacies expect fares to return to $1,000. However, I think they are starting to realize they can't serve everyone. They have to find a niche. DL would much rather have their BOS-ATL flights filled with passengers going to high yield international markets OR secondary markets that LCC's can't reach, then filled with $59 fares to FLL or $99 to PHX. Of course, DL will still have to offer some cheap fares, but the quantity will be far fewer. If DL tries to compete head to head with B6 solely on price, they will never succeed as DL's costs just can't get as low as B6.

Take a look at Continental. They provide limited service to BOS, so does that mean they aren't competitive? No. It just means CO has realized they don't need to be BIG in every market they serve. In fact, outside of IAH, CLE, EWR and GUM, CO is a relatively small player in practically every market. All they offer are flights to the hubs. Despite being such a small player, CO has faired better than most and will probably return to sustained profitability first.

CO has some nice hub cities in that the Business crowd and O/D is very large in EWR and IAH, CLE serves as a decent place to stop going from East to West through non-hub cities.

Based on the description of DL from the above quote, it sounds a lot like Pan Am with something like North Central, Southern, or Ozark mixed in. Serve the international destinations and smaller markets with no LCC competition. My point is that at present time, DL does not have the high yield market, the pricing power is gone, UA could not make a lousy $ 5 fare increase stick last weekend, how is DL going to capture the high yield business if they reduce their frequencies and major markets served, while providing less service than say, B6. In terms of entertainment, B6 has DL nailed, Song has the entertainment but needs a first class cabin if DL is going to try to cater to the high yield crowd of business travelers, they are going to want frequency and access to lots of destinations, which currently DL and all other other like carriers, AA, UA, NW, have. Their problem is that their costs are completely out of line for the current business environment.


User currently offlineDL787932ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4025 times:

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 15):

Gee, aggressively cut costs and bring the Song coach product into mainline with the addition of first class. I wonder why no one at DL ever thought of that.  Yeah sure



F L Y D E L T A J E T S
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12181 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3909 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 14):
Hopefully we'll see DL do some expanding out of BOS



Quoting DL787932ER (Reply 16):
Gee, aggressively cut costs and bring the Song coach product into mainline with the addition of first class. I wonder why no one at DL ever thought of that.

That could help DL to at least compete better with B6, than AA can. I think DL as a good opportunity in BOS, if they can take advantage of it. The key in BOS, as it is in most markets, is the business travel, not the leasure travel.


User currently onlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4166 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3856 times:

Not helping Boston is the fact that people are moving away from the city and Massachusetts. Population statistics bear that out, and there's not a real positive spin you can put on that. The area is NOT a magnet for corporations, except for those already in the region. And even with those corporations willing to stay, there isn't a whole lot of expansion going on. Extreme Liberalism in Massachusetts chases corporations away; Politicians pay lip service to businesses, but only because they want to play Robin Hood with all that tax revenue. Oppressive taxation at the corporate level and the personal level (Yeah! Where do we sign up???) is the cherry on top of a cake that includes cold/lousy weather and a very high cost of living.

If the key to the whole thing is business travel, then Boston's fortunes are not that great in terms of expected expansion. KEEPING what we have should be the focus; not any grand visions of expansion.

The high-tech boom isn't coming back through that door, folks. The high-tech boom is in the rear-view mirror, and so too are the salaries that went with those jobs. Still, home prices are unaffordably high and taxes and fees (at least in Massachusetts) do nothing but go up. The math isn't working for a lot of people. They say, "Why should I live here if my salary has rolled back yet my cost to live here keeps going up and up?" That is why RTP (Carolinas) and Texas and the whole sunbelt continue to blossom at the expense of the northeast and New England.

I live in New Hampshire, and the effects of all this are seen here, too. Manchester Airport will see a steep falloff in traffic as 2006 lawn darts replace 2005 mainliners.

Against all this are the airlines: Is this their view of Boston and New England? A has-been region that will be lucky to hold on to the service it has?

I'm a resident of this region, certainly, but I'm also trying to be pragmatic and view things as others from outside the area would. Boston has alot to offer, yes, but it's also a city that calls itself 'The Hub' in a sort of 'the-world-revolves-around-us' sort of way. Of course, that is laughable. But all the politicians in Boston and Massachusetts go mix up all that Kool-Aid and then go drink it all themselves.

 Wink

Chris in NH


User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3708 times:

Well DL added BOS-SAV/BNA and SRQ/NAS lately  Smile

What markets does DL have the highest market share on outta BOS? ATL,CVG,FLL?



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineSESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3489 posts, RR: 10
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3687 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 19):
What markets does DL have the highest market share on outta BOS? ATL,CVG,FLL?

ATL, CVG, SLC, LGA, MCO, FLL, PBI, RSW, BOS, and TPA. There may be more but that's all I can think of at the moment.

Jeremy


User currently offlineTinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 983 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3626 times:

Well, now DL is trying to give away its terminal space away to the competition. Why did they build the damn thing so big if they didn't need all that space? Moreover, could DL not do the same thing in BOS as they are doing at LGA, eg ORD, MIA and DFW? Could they find a way to make int'l ops work even if they have to use Terminal E? AA is leading the int'l market right now out of BOS.


"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineIflyatldl From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1936 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3600 times:

DL built Terminal A with the concept/idea that they could expand both domestically and internationally out of BOS. The original conception was to try to get all the Skyteam members under one roof as it were. To make connections more seamless, etc. It just really isn't beneficial to CO or NW to move their operations to terminal A which in a lot of ways is a shame, because it's really a lot of under utilized real estate. And the way the international arrivals are set up at Logan, it's really not much of a benefit to move AF, AZ and KL over there.


Ah, Summer, Fenway Park, Boston Red Sox and Beer.....
User currently offlineTinPusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 983 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3498 times:

Its a beautiful terminal...I had the opportunity to pass through it last spring.


"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineHawk44 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 759 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3467 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Thread starter):
Just wondering, lately it seems lately that JB is doing really good out of BOS

Really tell us how helijet airways is doing in BOS?  Yeah sure

Hawk44



Never under estimate the power of US
25 SKYYBLUE : So people dont like us anymore because we changed terminals??? People are accustomed to waiting a few minutes in a security line, I don't think it's
26 Supa7e7 : How many daily departures does B6 do from BOS? I doubt they are among the leaders at BOS.
27 MarshalN : Wow, dude, you must be really bitter that you're not living in MA, because it sure isn't nearly as bad as you say it is. We almost got rid of persona
28 Ikramerica : The only people who defend massachussets are the people who live there. everyone else can see the forest for the trees. and BTW, what you guys call a
29 Apodino : Who has very little power in MA because the Legislature is always controlled by democrats who enjoy a veto proof majority in both houses. And even if
30 Iflyatldl : I'll be through there on Tuesday. Have they opened any restaurants besides the Harpoon Brewery on airside? I know there's au bon Pain, but that's land
31 Srbmod : I didn't realize Helijet Airways flew out of Boston, as B6 is the code for JetBlue, not JB (Which is Helijet Airways). So perhaps you should either u
32 Post contains images Boeingguy1 : People like this annoy me. So he got the code for Jet-Blue wrong, instead of writing B6 he wrote JB. Give people a break and stop acting so above-eve
33 Hawk44 : Did you read the thread title? But why put JB and B6? I'm not acting above anybody else but why put a code that is not used by the airline but follow
34 COfaninBOS : I was born in Texas but got out as soon as I could. Massachusetts is the BEST place to live. Solid public education. Broad support for the environment
35 Srbmod : And you really help your case by your use of Jet-Blue. It's JetBlue (no space between the Jet and Blue.).
36 B6FA4ever : well at least for today we are running 41 flights. so its daily avg is in the low 40's for our winter sked. ~B6FA4ever
37 NonRevKing : Delta just built a new terminal and has added flights. You have absolutely nothing to base this claim on. Well, I guess I'll be the only one to chall
38 Fleet Service : Wow, four whole months! I'll bet you've got the accent and everything too... What kind of feel for a place can you have after four months?
39 Boeingguy1 : Thanks for proving my point.
40 Supa7E7 : Yeah, the B6 BOS scene is smaller than DL, US and AA, which each have 100+ flights per day, mostly mainline.
41 Flyjetstar : Do you think you need to get out more? Does it really matter? When you read the post and the ones that follow you can tell he was talking about JetBl
42 Srbmod : And the newcomers come in and try to make a name for themselves by bashing on the old timers. If it wasn't me who pointed it out, it would have been
43 DCA-ROCguy : I hate to bust this myth, but flyers don't deserve low fares all the time. They deserve fair fares, and I'm sorry, but if you want to buy a ticket on
44 Flyjetstar : Sorry but I am not trying to make a name for myself and I didn't realise that as a long term member you had rights I as a newbie don't.
45 NonRevKing : Gouging is your word. It's a nice spin, but I'm not buying it. Why don't we all demand lower gas prices? We "need" that too don't we? It's interestin
46 DCA-ROCguy : Gouging is your word. It's a nice spin, but I'm not buying it. Why don't we all demand lower gas prices? We "need" that too don't we? It's interesting
47 LH423 : Actually, they're really in a better position now than they were in Terminal E. Before they had to share the security checkpoint with Northwest domes
48 Ikramerica : Are you kidding? You can get a really good sense of the people and the general atmosphere in less time. 4 months gives you exposure to the bureaucrac
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