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TWA International Flights From STL  
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7259 times:

Maybe someone can help me figure this out. Did TWA ever operate any international cities from STL and if so, which ones? Or did all all of their international flights go out of JFK? A coworker of mine and I have a bet as to if TLV was ever served directly from STL or only from JFK. I do remember seeing 747's take off from STL in 1995, but I figured they were domestic flights to JFK for international operations.

So, how many and what international cities have been served by TW from STL?

And, has TLV ever been served non-stop from STL?



OttoPylit

67 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7229 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Thread starter):
what international cities have been served by TW from STL?

London Gatwick
Paris

and more



Airliners.net of the Future
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7224 times:

Daily STL-LGW
Daily STL-CDG
Daily STL-FRA was planned but didn't start because of the merger.

LGW was once twice daily during peak season with 767-200s


User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2079 posts, RR: 36
Reply 3, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7210 times:

TWA operated quite a few international cities from STL. During the STL hubs peak it was ZIH, MEX, PVR, CUN, SJU, YYZ, YVR (seasonal), LGW, MBJ, CZM, CDG (seasonal), FRA (planned and announced), MAN (planned), and FCO (planned).

-LGW was operated for the vast majority of the time there was a hub in STL
-CDG struggled to hang on as a seasonal city but almost always was brough back
-FRA was operated for a short period in the early 90's and was planned to restart in '00 but AA cancelled it
-MAN and FCO were planned and were nearing an announcement prior to the AA acquisition
-Most of the Mexican cities were operated most of the time along with the two canadian destinations, many thought that YUL would be in the plans at some point

TLV, to my knowledge has never been served from STL. I believe TW served TLV from JFK as an extension of a Cairo flight.


User currently offlineAir1727 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7190 times:

London-Gatwick, Paris, and Frankfurt all operated non-stop from Saint Louis. Tel-Aviv was never served non-stop from Saint Louis.

User currently offlineCLE757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7161 times:

NRT was planned, but never happend.


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7080 times:

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 5):
NRT was planned, but never happend.

...as was MAD.


User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7074 times:

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 5):
NRT was planned, but never happend.

yes and with the 767-200!

It was going to be MCO-STL-NRT



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3128 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7065 times:

Quoting September11 (Reply 1):
I believe TW served TLV from JFK as an extension of a Cairo flight.

Actually i believe the TLV flight was nonstop out of JFK as well as CAI. The CAI flight continued on to RUH. Im going to try to look this up, I have a timetable somewhere from 1997.

'902



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7063 times:

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 5):
NRT was planned, but never happend.

I did not see that one coming. Their presence in Asia was, well, basically what DL's is now. LOL

Quoting Air1727 (Reply 4):
Tel-Aviv was never served non-stop from Saint Louis.



Quoting LambertMan (Reply 3):
I believe TW served TLV from JFK as an extension of a Cairo flight.

Well I just won 30 bucks. Thanks guys. BTW, how were their Cairo flights? Considering they were the only CAI carrier from the US, with a quick run of flights by DL before 9/11, was CAI ever really a moneymaker for them, or how else did they make a profit from that route?




OttoPylit


User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2079 posts, RR: 36
Reply 10, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7057 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 6):
...as was MAD.

No, I'm pretty sure it wasn't. I did a class project with one of the big wigs in the TWA routing/planning department shortly after he was laid off. My mom works with his wife and was able to setup an interview for me for some bs class project I initially didnt want to do (till I found him). He just mumbled but he told me some pretty cool stuff about his job and TW.

The NRT flight as I understood was planned only if TW could get something done with STL customs, I can't remember what it was for sure.


User currently offlineFtrguy From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7042 times:

I flew on TW from TLV-STL via JFK in Jun of 1999. It turned out to be the same aircraft on both legs, but a different flight number. The flight had come from JFK and I distinctly remember CAI having its own round-trip from JFK.

User currently offlineWa727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7008 times:

While it was not nonstop, I flew TW STL-PHL-LHR (no change of plane) in August, 1985, on a 767, 200 or 300 ER. I was lucky enough to be reassigned to Ambassador (business) Class. Then, business class was better than first class today on similiar carriers.

Is the new runway open yet at STL?



Don't just stand there, go get some glue!
User currently offlineTUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1844 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6975 times:

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 8):
Actually i believe the TLV flight was nonstop out of JFK as well as CAI. The CAI flight continued on to RUH. Im going to try to look this up, I have a timetable somewhere from 1997.

Yes the JFK-CAI flight went on to RUH (Riyadh, Saudi Arabia) for sure  Smile

This was also around the time a Saudi Prince (Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Bin Abdulaziz Al-Saud) acquired 5% of TWA in stock (2 million shares at the time) in 1997. I actually think TWA started service to RUH in 1995-1997 or right around that time. I must consult my collection of Ambassador mags to be sure. Anyways, JFK-TLV was the most prized route for TWA right until AA axed it for no good reason.

PLEASE ... if ANYONE knows info on the TWA RUH operations I'd love to talk to you, please message me! I've been dying to hear about this rare route. Anyone know if there are any pics out there of TWA jets at RUH?



Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
User currently offlineWhataboutme From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6953 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 9):
Quoting CLE757 (Reply 5):
NRT was planned, but never happend.

I did not see that one coming. Their presence in Asia was, well, basically what DL's is now. LOL

NRT was a planned route. I believed it was going to have a fuel stop in ANC. I believe that TW was looking into some 777 at one time to do NRT.


User currently offlineTUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1844 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6952 times:

Here's a scan from the August 2000 TWA Ambassador magazine showing INTL routes...

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/unreclaimed/twa.jpg



Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5694 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6879 times:

Quoting Wa727 (Reply 12):
Is the new runway open yet at STL?

Nope, not yet. April of 2006 I think?

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6791 times:

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 13):
Anyone know if there are any pics out there of TWA jets at RUH?

I could have taken a good picture of TWA back in RUH, but it was unfortunately 23:00 and pitch black and I only had a standard 35mm and it would come out bad. TWA flew to RUH in the middle of the night for a short stopover before returning to CAI, thats why you never see any RUH TWA pics. All I have are my day shots from JED. and its all SV stuff



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6785 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 9):
I did not see that one coming. Their presence in Asia was, well, basically what DL's is now. LOL

More like US Airways which has not even touched the far-east for the past few years as well. not counting TWA along long time ago with old Okinawa and Hong Kong etc.



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 19, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 6717 times:

The STL-FRA route in the early 1990's was operated by B767-200(ER). Saw them a couple of times at Rhein-Main-Airport.


Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9557 posts, RR: 31
Reply 20, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6687 times:

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 19):
The STL-FRA route in the early 1990's was operated by B767-200(ER). Saw them a couple of times at Rhein-Main-Airport.

indeed. And they needed a loadfactor of 120% including C to make money on that flight. It was cancelled after one or two seasons.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5166 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6613 times:

TWA applied for STL-MAD, but was turned down by Spain.

TLV was operated in the 90's via JFK but with a change of aircraft (same flight number, however).

At times when the seasonal STL-CDG wasn't operated nonstop it was often routed through BOS (again in the 90's).



Next Up: STL-EWR-STL for my first mileage run!
User currently offlineSevenHeavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1156 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6600 times:

As stated the only non stop STL-Europe routes were CDG and LGW. However the LGW route for some time continued on to FRA on the same aircraft.

The majority of European service were operated via JFK and to a lessor extent BOS, PHL and BWI/IAD.

Somewhat ironically TWA's longest STL route in terms of flying time .was a domestic one - TW001 to HNL. Until the last couple of years this was a B747. It then became a B763 and sometimes even a B752 that had to route through LAX westbound for fuel.

For most of TWA's existence you did not have to be flying internationally from STL to fly widebodies. B747/L1011/B767 were extremely common on flights to BOS, JFK, MIA, LAX, SFO, SAN, PHX, ABQ, LAS, SEA, ORD and MCI amongst others.

Imagine that occurring now!

Regards



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9557 posts, RR: 31
Reply 23, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6572 times:

@ Sevenheavy - the 762 FRA/STL was a fact. It may have been a continuation of an LGW service as well, but it did operate N/S FRA/STL and was discontinued due to the financial situation of TWA and the fact that they were loosing money on the route.

747s and TriStars were a common sight in STL indeed, and I might add to your list PHL, one of my flights through STL was a 1011 service SFO/STL/PHL.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineWhataboutme From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6540 times:

Quoting SevenHeavy (Reply 22):
even a B752 that had to route through LAX westbound for fuel.

The 757 flight to HNL was a second flight Saturday only. Flight 1 was a 767 daily.


25 Ilyag : TLV-STL was operated via JFK and had its own flight number (something like 89x, other than 885 used for TLV-JFK). I took it back in 98 - it was 741 on
26 Texan : TW had the slots for NRT and were considering operating the route. From what I've been told, they were just waiting for the A330 to be delivered. Whe
27 Quickmover : That's true, but for a short period of time, 757s were the only service. I believe it had something to do with when they retired all the 747s and a 7
28 Chase : Here's a weird one: I once flew TW STL-DAY-EWR-MUC, all on the same plane. This was in June '94.
29 Malaysia : TWA flew the 757 as the only direct HNL flight from DCA DCA-LAX-HNL TWA sure had some beautiful routes before AA pilaged them.
30 Malaysia : What I was told was it was going to be non-stop 767-200ER with a total of 180 something seat config specially for NRT. till the A330 came, but TWA wa
31 Quickmover : I believe those A330s were cancelled and changed to A318 and A319s the same time they ordered the 717s. The problem with NRT was getting facilities an
32 AA717driver : There used to be a same-plane-service to MUC via CDG. The NRT was awarded maybe in 2000 but the Japanese wouldn't grant any slots. :rolleyes: That mad
33 BHMNONREV : You are correct sir on the A318 statement. By the time TW was awarded STL-NRT, the A330's were a distant memory, with the production slots being conv
34 Malaysia : I always wondered what the reason was behind that? since does the A318 mix well with a 717?
35 Quickmover : I believe they had some deposits with Airbus for the 330 and it was either use it or lose it. The 318 needed a launch order so they allowed the switc
36 Iflymax : I remember TWA Flight 800 JFK - CDG - (L-1011) and a change of plane (to a 762) for an independent flight to MUC. The second flight (Christmas of 1992
37 SmithAir747 : What plane were you on for that strange flight? By the way, TWA brings back so many fond memories of my first international trip (TWA IND-JFK-MAD ret
38 Jmy007 : TWA made a big deal in the summer of 1985 for the three new international routes being used out of the newly expanded C concourse. Of course the route
39 BHMNONREV : Not necessarily, but in TWA's case it did. The 717 was to be the primary short-to-medium haul aircraft from STL replacing the many DC-9's which were
40 Orion737 : STL-LGW was a long standing TW route and a busy one. A daily service, even twice daily for a time, were offered and it was a year round service. I won
41 Timz : I doubt they ever had a nonstop L1011.
42 LambertMan : AA discontinued it because it had a better opportunity in Dallas. It comes down to a route that will make money versus a route that you hope will mak
43 BigGSFO : TW's L10's didn't have the range for it. Only the L15 could do this route and TW had none of the -500's in their fleet. I remember TW720/TW721: LAX-S
44 Air1727 : We never used the L-1011 on STL-HNL non-stop; only the -250 and -500 variants could complete that run and we never operated them. In 1979 STL-HNL was
45 Post contains images Atrude777 : a WHOOOOLE lota faith Alex
46 BigGSFO : There was also a very short-lived JFK-HNL 747 non-stop. It was then moved to TW01/TW02: JFK-STL-HNL. When TW got rid of the 747's the flight went to
47 Quickmover : So the L10s were mainly domestic and Europe? I never thought about it, but most of JFK-Europe would be shorter than STL-HNL. Does anyone know what the
48 Air1727 : We only did JFK-HNL one day a week and it only lasted for one season. Nassau and Freeport were also served non-stop from STL using L-1011s as well. W
49 BigGSFO : Probably JFK-FRA. TW also used their L10's for PIT-LGW which they served prior to moving that authority to STL.
50 Jmy007 : Does anyone know about the LGW route authority from St Louis? I was always under the impression that the authority came from B-CAL, who serivce to ST
51 Post contains images MattCLE : I remember when TWA was planning the NRT route I thought I remember hearing someone say TWA was considering (not sure how much) getting a 747SP to fly
52 Ultrapig : At one time the Cairo Flights (atleast on the Return) involved an L1011-to Rome which then went on the Paris to JFK to STL and then to LAS.
53 Indio66 : I took the JFK to CAI flight in March 98. It left JFK at about 10PM and arrived in CAI around 3PM the next day. The return left CAI at about 1AM and a
54 RIXrat : I don't want to bust your thread, but there were a few funny incidents with PA, PanAm in the late 80s when they offered a $99 round trip ticket from S
55 AA777 : Dont you think that's a tad dramatic? TWA was bought out by AA....did you honestly expect that it would be the same afterwards? And what is so great
56 Post contains links PanAm747 : Tel Aviv and Cairo were never served together; however, both were extensions of JFK-Europe flights. The TWA 847 hijacking of 1985 was a flight routed
57 Timz : CDG, not ORY? The 7/89 OAG shows a daily 767 nonstop STL-FRA.
58 BigGSFO : Yes, CDG. Incidentially TWA tried to make a mini-Euro hub at CDG in the late 90's. At it's peak there were flights from JFK, BOS, IAD, STL, LAX, GVA,
59 TWPHIL : All I can say TRANS WORLD never flew NON STOP from STL to TLV .I do confirm non stop services STL- LGW TW720 year round STL- CDG TW818 seasonal then y
60 Jmy007 : Right, STL-TLV was never a non stop. 818 was year round before 99/2000, but it was seasonal some years as well, before being droped in favor of a sto
61 TUNisia : Hmm, how many TWA employees are left at AA? Three prized routes (TLV,CAI, and to an extent RUH) thrown out the window. What upsets me most of all is
62 Malaysia : Not many TW employees at AA lately
63 TUNisia : Sadly, I know. In July 2004 I was on an AA flight from JFK to FCO and was talking to an FA in the back, after mealtime. I asked her if she knew of an
64 ContinentalEWR : There is no way Saudi Arabian Airlines is the Middle East's largest airline. It has to be Emirates at this point.
65 Post contains images RentonView : What equipment did they use on the later intra-European flights? In 1991 I flew SFO-JFK-FCO-IST; the IST segment was on a 722... and a delicious Medi
66 Post contains images Whataboutme : Thanks for all that history. Kinda put a tear in my eye.
67 Post contains links Dl_mech : Info about the DL/TW NRT codeshare: http://www.airliners.net/discussions...ation/read.main/239549/6/#ID239549
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