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Open Skies Impact On Seasonal Service?  
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4549 posts, RR: 18
Posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1926 times:

I am not sure if the new agreement is still called Open Skies or if there is a new name for it. This is the agreement that would allow free travel between Europe and the U.S. between any city pairs.

What impact will this have on seasonal service? For example where I live at near IND we have the U.S. Grand Prix on July 2nd of this year. Unlike Christmas, Thanksgiving and spring break where people are going home to be with families or heading down to Florida this is very heavy international traffic.

While providing daily scheduled international service may not be practical it would be a very good idea to provide it over a 7 to 10 day period around the time of the F1 race. You would easily be able to fill the largest jets to and from AMS, LHR, CDG (each) around that race.

If airlines like CO, NW, AA, UA, etc were able to avoid the grief of government approval would they be inclined to offer nonstop service during a 7 to 10 day perior? We are talking about international arrivals of well over 10,000 during the race week. You may be even talking 25,000+. It is very significant.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32725 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1902 times:

NW could start IND-AMS tomorrow if they wanted to. Nothing stopping them. The US already has Open Skies with most European countries.


a.
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4549 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 1888 times:

There would be no application of any kind necessary? All they would have to do is decide that they wanted to put a jet on that route and issue a press release and thats it? I mean nothing more than if they wanted to start IND-SFO?


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32725 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1843 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 2):
There would be no application of any kind necessary? All they would have to do is decide that they wanted to put a jet on that route and issue a press release and thats it? I mean nothing more than if they wanted to start IND-SFO?

Yup. No application. Some Open Skies countries may ask for a notice of starting new service (like the UK, which is Open Skies except for Gatwick/Heathrow), but there would be no application process. NW can put out a PR today and launch it tomorrow.



a.
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1809 times:

Due to aircraft availability contraints, we are not likely to see short-term non-stop service between a point like IND and Europe (especially in July) by the likes of AA, AF, KL, NW, UA, etc even though it could easily be done from a regulatory standpoint and even if such flight(s) could be booked at 100% load factors during the time the flights were operated.

Speaking of load factors, if non-stop flights were to be added for a special event, keep in mind the reality that demand would be very directional; ie full flights Europe to IND at the beginning of the event and relatively empty eastbound (except for the airlines' willingness to offer lower-than-loss-leader fares) and the converse at the end of the event. Even so, fares for the high demand travel dates/direction can often offset the low fares/load factors of the low demand dates/direction. Which brings us back to the issue of aircraft availability constraints, which is where the flexibility of airlines like Thomas Cook, Monarch and others like them, for whom short-term events are a tailor-made opportunity to put on their longhaul schedule, come to mind as the most likely candidates to provide short-term non-stop service on Europe-U.S. routes.

What the major scheduled airlines of the U.S. and Europe would more likely do for an event like the Grand Prix at IND is to temporarily schedule larger aircraft on connecting flights to/from IND at their existing U.S. hubs like DTW, MSP, ORD, IAD, etc.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4549 posts, RR: 18
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1784 times:

TB... It is still all oneway traffic regardless of whether it is nonstop or going through a hub. Going through a hub doesn't all the sudden change that. But thats probably why you see heavy charter service here around race time. Assuming the AF and LH 747's that were here for the race last year were charters and not cargo for the race.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32725 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1779 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 5):
TB... It is still all oneway traffic regardless of whether it is nonstop or going through a hub. Going through a hub doesn't all the sudden change that.

Huh? Of course it does. By going through a hub there are literally hundreds more connecting oppurtunities that entirely change that.



a.
User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4549 posts, RR: 18
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1764 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
Huh? Of course it does. By going through a hub there are literally hundreds more connecting oppurtunities that entirely change that.

Yeah. You are probably right on that.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1743 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 5):
TB... It is still all oneway traffic regardless of whether it is nonstop or going through a hub. Going through a hub doesn't all the sudden change that.

A point that is so self-evident that it didn't need seem to need to be added in my reply #4...

However, there is a huge difference between pulling a 747, 777 or A330 from its rotation on a regulary scheduled service between the U.S. and Europe for 7-10 days (plus or minus a few days) to operate short-term non-stop longhaul services when compared to the virtual non-impact on operations of re-assigning, say, a 757 onto a shorthaul hub-to-spoke flight in place of the usual 319/320, 737 or M80 for 1-2 weeks. In the case of the latter, no flights need to be dropped, even temporarily, to make an aircraft available; the smaller aircraft simply fill in for the larger aircraft on the route from which it was "borrowed" during the dates/times pax traffic to/from the event city is expected to peak.

Aircraft swaps on short-mediumhaul routes such as described above probably explains one of the reasons why it is not uncommon to see, in a printed OAG, for a hypothetical example, a flight with effective dates of perhaps 28Jun-5Jul with the same flight number and same dep/arr times with effective dates --27Jun and, a line or two above or below, 6Jul-- with the only differences, besides the effective dates, being the equipment type. In some cases, a mainline type will even take the place of a RJ or prop type on a one date only, pre-scheduled basis in OAG timetables of the recent past.

[Edited 2006-01-18 01:28:44]

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