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British Airways SAN-PHX-LGW Load Factors?  
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 19
Posted (15 years 7 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3270 times:

Does anyone know what the normal load factors (ballpark estimate is fine) for British Airways flights 2288 and 2289 going from SAN-PHX-LGW and back? I am taking that flight (a 747-400) to London on Tuesday and want to know what the flight will be like. Also, where do most of the passengers originate? I am sure that the load factor is high because of the fact that passengers on the flight from Phoenix come from the combined cities of San Diego, Phoenix, and Las Vegas (AmWest codeshare). Thanks a lot!

Aaron G.

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
User currently offlineAmerican B757 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 370 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (15 years 7 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3232 times:

Although im not sure of the exact load factors, im sure they are doing well as they are flying in a 747-400. If they wernt doing well it could be a 777. They upgraded to a 747-400 a few years ago, it used to be a DC-10.

User currently offlineScooter From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 877 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (15 years 7 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3210 times:

Most originate in PHX, as I've never seen a LARGE group of people board at SAN. Though I have heard talk of replacing the 744 with a NONSTOP 777 next year to LGW from San Diego...

San Diego, CA

User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (15 years 7 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3195 times:


A non-stop SAN-LGW?! That would be quite a large capacity... Maybe it's because they can't get any additional capacities at LAX.
What about AA's proposal to operate SJC-LGW (or LHR)?

Best regards,
Alain Mengus

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (15 years 7 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3177 times:

AA wouldn't operate SJC-LHR because of no UK-US Open Skies agreement.

I have only seen the BA 744 disgorge its passengers once. I estimated at the time that the number of people there could easily fill a 757.

I have heard of the 777 initiative as well. The Port District here is already hinting at the prospect by having a plastic BA 777 model docking at a replica of the new international arrivals facility in Terminal 2 near the AA check-in counters. If the route was advertised well, then load factors could probably be pushed well upwards of break-even. And don't forget that the cash-cow of airliners--the cargo hold. If this new route opens, BA would have the only nonstop cargo service to Europe.

If San Diego gets off its butt and builds a new airport, then the city may see more carriers bringing flights here because of overcrowding at LAX. Even when the new international arrivals facility is built here, a carrier with a 777 could probably easily use SAN instead of LAX if the flight was timed not to conflict with the BA flight.

Thanks for the info all of you!

Aaron G.

User currently offlineWingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2742 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (15 years 7 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3172 times:

This is the Grandaddy of flights out of PHX. I lived there until last November and took this flight last summer to get to the Running of the Bulls in Pamplona. Load factor in mid-summer was 100%! I was very hesitant to lose a half day in Madrid by not flying to the East Coast first with an overnight connection, but the travel agent talked me into it. Best decision of my life. I arrived in Madrid +1 day late evening Vs. very early morning and slept the jet lag right off. For those who do this on a regular basis, the normal "in by morning" to Europe is deadly. Sleep all day, awake all night etc. Great flight with new interior and PTVs (which I didn't use). God, the difference b/t US domestic and Euro international is night and day. Hats off to BA.

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (15 years 7 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3168 times:

Unfortunately for me, my student tour group and I have a full half-day of sightseeing in London when we get off the plane! Imagine the crankiness of the less resilient travelers!

Aaron G.

User currently offlineBicoastal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (15 years 7 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3133 times:

Sorry to burst your bubble, Aaron, but there isn't the volume or market in San Diego to fill regular flights non-stop to London, Japan, Hong Kong, Frankfurt, etc. Even with a new airport, San Diego County's roughly 2.5 million people aren't enough to support so many flights. Help us all if beautiful San Diego gets so big that it could support such flights. There goes our quality of life. San Diego is not a hub; it's a cul-de-sac. Airlines depend on San Diego's population to help fill flights from their hubs because San Diego alone, can't fill a planes to distant lands.

If you want a big airport, move out of town when you're old enough. Was does everyone want San Diego to grow? It's too crowded as is. Been to the beaches lately? Hardly room in the water.

User currently offlinePurdue Arrow From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1574 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (15 years 7 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3121 times:

I agree, Bicoastal. While it would be cool to have a busy airport with a large variety of traffic, San Diego is crowded enough. I mean, where are they going to build houses when there are no more mountain tops to chop off?

(For those unfamiliar with the area, the common practice now that we are out of developable land is to take a mountain, cut the top of to form a plateau, then build there.)

User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7879 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (15 years 7 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3114 times:

How much of the traffic on this flight is originating in Phoenix? I know HP offers code shared feed on this flight for BA... but does it really need it. I remember when they first started the service they advertised heavily on the radio with the BA World Offers special fares, with some VERY ATTRACTIVE deals to points in France, Portugal, Spain, Italy.... $400 rt from Phoenix to Europe was and is pretty damn good. Now I don't see any advertising for it.

Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (15 years 7 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3094 times:

While I don't support making SAN a hub for a major airline, I do think that it has the opportunity to play a vital role in Southern California's future air travel situation. With the entire region growing (there is no way to stop that), and airport alternative drying up quickly, somebody has to step up and do their part to help alleviate this projected congestion. LAX is very crowded and Orange County has everything against it. If S.D. built a new airport, then it would provide a limited but valuably alternative for LAX for travelers going to Southern California.
While a limit on growth may preserve quality of life in the short-term, if San Diego does not improve its transportation infrastructure as a whole as well as other things, when do you think the companies like Qualcomm and Gateway will start to move away? What will the quality of life be like then?
San Diego will never (at least not in the next 30-40 years) be a hub for a major airline. Nor will we see daily flights to Manila, Shanghai, Melbourne, Amsterdam and the like. But I do think that San Diego, as a part of the Southern California region could and should capitalize on the opportunity to improve air travel for both it and the cities around it in the coming years.

Aaron G.

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8556 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (15 years 7 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3091 times:

I didn't think San Diego's airport could launch a fully-fueled flight to Europe? Even if the market didn't exist at Phoenix, a 747 (and probably a 777 too) would have to touch down for a tech stop to uplift the full tanks necessary for the trans-con / Atlantic crossing.

fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (15 years 7 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3089 times:

777s with modified engines are now able to reach destinations in Europe nonstop even from SAN's short runway and subsequent elevation obstacles (Point Loma). I am not sure what the exact range of these 777s are though.

Aaron G.

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