NateDAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 416 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4300 times:
IADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 669 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4272 times:
Despite this dismal report, the stock in AMR went up. Incredible. I guess that people thought it might have been worse. As for my 2 cents I wonder if they wont end up in bankruptcy at some point in time. I sure hope not.
Boeing767mech From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 992 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4156 times:
Funny thing is AMR lost 604 million NOT JUST AA but also AA and American Eagle and AMR services.
Tu154 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 366 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4124 times:
Could we see another bankruptcy happening if these losses are not curbed? We have US and UA with dramatically lower cost structures, UA with 3 billion in financing leaving bankruptcy in a few weeks. DL and NW are restructuring and lowering costs.
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
IADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 669 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4112 times:
If there is a bankruptcy filing by AA, at some point in time, it will be under the new bankruptcy laws. The new law is much much tougher for personal and corporate bankrputcy.
NYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 660 posts, RR: 4 Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4078 times:
I doubt American will file for bankruptcy. It ended the quarter with $4.3 billion in cash. That is, unless we keep giving bonuses to our executives- they'll get $20 million in payouts in April for all their "hard work."
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31119 posts, RR: 73 Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4037 times:
Quoting Tu154 (Reply 5): Could we see another bankruptcy happening if these losses are not curbed?
Not as long as they have $4.3B in cash reserves, more than Southwest even. AMR still has heavy losses to curb, but they are still pretty stable and have cash to back it up, as demonstrated, as you pointed out, that their stock still did go up. I think AMR (and CAL) will post profits in 2006.
WestIndian425 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1008 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4037 times:
Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 7): I doubt American will file for bankruptcy. It ended the quarter with $4.3 billion in cash. That is, unless we keep giving bonuses to our executives- they'll get $20 million in payouts in April for all their "hard work."
Good thing the CEO opted not to accept the bonus. I'm sure the execs are feeling the heat for this, especially from unions such as ALPA.
Neil
God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
AAR90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3410 posts, RR: 50 Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3887 times:
Quoting WestIndian425 (Reply 9): Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 7):
I doubt American will file for bankruptcy. It ended the quarter with $4.3 billion in cash. That is, unless we keep giving bonuses to our executives- they'll get $20 million in payouts in April for all their "hard work."
Good thing the CEO opted not to accept the bonus. I'm sure the execs are feeling the heat for this, especially from unions such as ALPA.
Recommend a little research for both of y'all.
There is no "cash" and no "payouts" involved with the executive bonuses. They are simply stock options authorized in 2003 that are to be issued in 2006 IF the stock performed well (no options issued if stock did not perform well). Virtually the same program as ALL domestic employees...stock options actually issued in 2003 become available over 3 years. Neither plan costs more than the administrative costs to issue & redeem the options.
ALPA has had no standing at AA for more than 40 years!
*NO CARRIER* -- A Naval Aviator's worst nightmare!
AAden From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 832 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3822 times:
"American’s passenger revenue per available seat mile was up 13.8 percent year over year. American’s load factor – or percentage of seats filled – for the fourth quarter was 77.9 percent, up 3.6 points over the fourth quarter of 2004, while yield, representing average fares, was up 8.5 percent."
I think they may be forced into bankruptcy in the long run to be able to compete with the carriers that are restructuring.
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4658 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3706 times:
I don't think AA is going to file for bankruptcy in the forseeable future. As capacity in the U.S. continues to shrink, that will put pressure on fares to continue to increase.
My beef with AA is that on so many routes, mainline flying has been turned over, in full or in part, to Eagle. The Embrears and CRJs have higher CASMs than the mainline fleet. Yet, AA has them flying routes that compete with LCCs. For instance, AA flies CRJs on ORD-PHL and ORD-ATL. Those routes compete with Southwest and AirTran, respectively.
If AA has to match fares with LCCs, that means the yields on flights flown by RJs are going to be lower.
The problem goes back to the returning of the 717s and the retirement of the Fokkers. AA has no 100-seat planes, and AA isn't about to order 75 to 125 planes.
But, as an example, instead of flying 4 CRJs and 3 MD-80s between ORD and ATL each way, maybe AA ought to fly 5 MD-80s. It's a net loss of 8 seats and 2 flights each way, but it would improve the yields.
MattMSP767 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 115 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3675 times:
Quoting AAR90 (Reply 10): Recommend a little research for both of y'all.
There is no "cash" and no "payouts" involved with the executive bonuses.
I am so tired of people that don't understand this concept...especially the AA employees. They're complaining about things that aren't even factual.
Fxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7027 posts, RR: 93 Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3546 times:
Quoting Ckfred (Reply 12): But, as an example, instead of flying 4 CRJs and 3 MD-80s between ORD and ATL each way, maybe AA ought to fly 5 MD-80s. It's a net loss of 8 seats and 2 flights each way, but it would improve the yields.
AA is doing just the opposite of your theory. Ie. End service for routes with AA (mainline) service, schedule just MQ service.
Ckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 4658 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3512 times:
Mitch Schnurman is right on the money. My wife's company, a provider of computer services, has had several rounds of lay-offs between 2001 and 2004. In addition, virtually every employee lost the incentive bonus plan. Only the top 30 or so executives now get a bonus based on company performance.
In addition, raises last year were 0% to 2%, and they were included in paychecks 1 month later. So, you got 13 months of pay at the old rate. This year, raises will be 1% to 3%
So guess what? Now employees are quitting. One employee left for IBM with a 30% raise and a bonus plan. Granted, he won't have a pension, which my wife's company still offers. But he can do a lot of retirement planning with 30% more pay.
So, if AA is losing managers, because it can't give raises, what else can it do? Offer bonuses based on stock performance. The problem is that the union workers would rather blame management, rather than LCCs, oil, and in some cases, themselves for AA's woes. And they don't understand that turnovers in management is often bad, for vaious reasons.
I recently exchanged e-mails with a travel writer for a major newspaper about airline service. He was on an AA flight from Rome to ORD. The passenger in the row in front of him pushed his call button several times, but got no response. Finally, the writer walked up to the galley and mentioned to the F/As, who were chatting, that a passenger had rung the call button, but no one had come back. Mind you, this was in business and not coach.
Now, is the passenger who range the call button several times likely to switch carriers in the future because of a boneheaded management decision, or because of a frontline employee who didn't perform his or her job well?
ContnlEliteCMH From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1436 posts, RR: 50 Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3483 times:
Quoting MattMSP767 (Reply 13): I am so tired of people that don't understand this concept...especially the AA employees. They're complaining about things that aren't even factual.
Or significant. Not $20 million dollars out of $4.3 BILLION!!! Surely such extravagances will drain the coffers!
But don't ignorance of basic accounting, and general innumeracy, go hand-in-glove?
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
Lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10695 posts, RR: 100 Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3417 times:
Quoting IADLHR (Reply 2): As for my 2 cents I wonder if they wont end up in bankruptcy at some point in time. I sure hope not.
Ditto
Quoting NYCAAer (Reply 7): I doubt American will file for bankruptcy. It ended the quarter with $4.3 billion in cash.
Do you know how much of that is "free cash?" AA needs a ton of money just to keep going. AA needs to cut costs (and they are, about $600 million for next year plus $300 million "revenue enhancement."). It would only take about 10 of these quarters to put AA under.
Quoting Ckfred (Reply 12): s capacity in the U.S. continues to shrink, that will put pressure on fares to continue to increase.
But some analysts thing that with CO adding capacity trans Atlantic that yeilds will decline in one of the few bright spots for the majors.
In addition, 27 of the Maddogs are permanently grounded ($155million charge). Ok, 24 were already in the desert. Don't cry too much, these aircraft spent their first few years getting very beat up. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10907674/
Quoting Ckfred (Reply 16):
Now, is the passenger who range the call button several times likely to switch carriers in the future because of a boneheaded management decision, or because of a frontline employee who didn't perform his or her job well?
B6 said it best, "We're a service company that happens to be an airline." One problem with a seniority system is that great service can't be rewarded nor poor service... taken care of.
AA needs to restructure more. #1 needs to be cutting the fuel costs. I hope to see all of the 757's and 737's wingletted. As to the MD-80's... MD once upon a time tested winglets (at least I have a coworker who swears to have been on that project), so get them out or slap the 737 winglets on the maddogs. Would I like to see the MD-80's get new engines? Yes! Will it happen? I wish I knew. I know Pratt would sell Pw6000A's very cheap. Would it make sense? Maybe, financing might be the big decider. At least AA was smart enough to halt 50 seat RJ deliveries early minimizing that exposure.
Commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10193 posts, RR: 62 Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3396 times:
Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 18): Do you know how much of that is "free cash?"
If by "free cash" you mean unrestricted cash, then the number is somewhere in the ballpark of $3.8B. That's out of $4.3B total that AA currently has in cash and short-term liquid equivelants, and that's the most of any airline in the United States (including Southwest). So, in summary, there's no bankruptcy risk here.
Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 18): AA needs a ton of money just to keep going.
Well that works out well, since they have a ton of it right now.
Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 18): AA needs to cut costs (and they are, about $600 million for next year plus $300 million "revenue enhancement.").
True, and it is telling that their non-fuel expenses in 2005 decreased 2.0% YOY, while expenses when fuel is added in increased 7.9%.
Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 18): I hope to see all of the 757's and 737's wingletted.
As time and money permits, I feel confident that is where they are headed. AA did tremendously well with wingletting the first 737 (they got it done in about half the time that Boeing's kit called for) and have done just about as well with the 757 wingletting program. AA is likely going to cut a good deal to winglet its 737 and 757 fleets from APB as soon as the numbers are in on the first 737 and 757s to get the winglets.
WestIndian425 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1008 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3301 times:
Quoting AAR90 (Reply 10): Recommend a little research for both of y'all.
There is no "cash" and no "payouts" involved with the executive bonuses. They are simply stock options authorized in 2003 that are to be issued in 2006 IF the stock performed well (no options issued if stock did not perform well). Virtually the same program as ALL domestic employees...stock options actually issued in 2003 become available over 3 years. Neither plan costs more than the administrative costs to issue & redeem the options.
ALPA has had no standing at AA for more than 40 years!
Actually I did do some research, and I'm correct. CEO Gerard Arpey is not taking part in the "bonus program".
Neil
God did not create aircraft pilots to be on the ground
LMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3232 times:
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Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 18): AA needs to restructure more. #1 needs to be cutting the fuel costs. I hope to see all of the 757's and 737's wingletted. As to the MD-80's... MD once upon a time tested winglets (at least I have a coworker who swears to have been on that project), so get them out or slap the 737 winglets on the maddogs. Would I like to see the MD-80's get new engines? Yes! Will it happen? I wish I knew. I know Pratt would sell Pw6000A's very cheap. Would it make sense? Maybe, financing might be the big decider. At least AA was smart enough to halt 50 seat RJ deliveries early minimizing that exposure.
Lightsaber
Of course AA needs to cut fuel costs. Unfortunately for the most part those costs are beyond AA's control. Unless they find a bunch of oil under HQ. In regards to new engines my money would be on the BR715. It's lighter than the CFM-56, V2500 and PW6000. And unlike the CFM-56 and PW6000 it's already been fitted onto a DC-9 airframe.
SESGDL From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3385 posts, RR: 11 Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3157 times:
Quoting Commavia (Reply 19):
If by "free cash" you mean unrestricted cash, then the number is somewhere in the ballpark of $3.8B. That's out of $4.3B total that AA currently has in cash and short-term liquid equivelants, and that's the most of any airline in the United States (including Southwest). So, in summary, there's no bankruptcy risk here.
AA filing Chapter 11 has nothing to do with its cash position. It just depends on whether or not they can restructure the airline outside of bankruptcy. My inclination is that they can't, and sooner or later they will file for CH11. It's better to do this with more cash than less, so a filing isn't wholly dependent on losses. If AA can remain competitive with US, TZ, UA, DL, and NW after their costs are vastly reduced due to bankruptcy, then AA will be fine. I don't see that happening though.
Quoting ContnlEliteCMH (Reply 17): Or significant. Not $20 million dollars out of $4.3 BILLION!!! Surely such extravagances will drain the coffers!
But don't ignorance of basic accounting, and general innumeracy, go hand-in-glove?
One shouldn't complain of ignorance when posting a ridiculous statement like that. Ohh, a measly $20 million. Who cares if execs get $20 million bonuses when everyone is taking paycuts and being laid off?!? Wake up. Just because its only a fraction of their costs and cash balance doesn't mean it couldn't have been better spent. I'm glad you're not an airline executive.
Iowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4099 posts, RR: 7 Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3139 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
As far as fuel costs, I wonder if we will see anymore 738's/757's get winglets?
25 AAR90: You originally wrote: My reply: ========= I suspect the "ignorance" comment is directed at the FACT that AA isn't spending anything on "executive bon
26 Commavia: Cash has a great deal to do with bankruptcy, as evidenced by the fact that no airline in the U.S. has yet filed for bankruptcy before vastly depleati
27 ContnlEliteCMH: Oh, I'm awake, my friend. And apparently my numeracy *and* literacy are better than yours. Never once have I argued that the money couldn't be better
28 Tornado82: Well thought out post ContnlEliteCMH... us Continental fans know what's up. One question though... what do I have to do to make $80/hr?? And are you h
29 Ramerinianair: FEASIBILITY!!! As for the new enignes - AA already has a huge number of MD80s. Their operation is too large to replace on the dime. For AA to save mon
30 BigGSFO: ContnlEliteCMH, very well put. Welcome to my RR list.
31 SESGDL: ContnlEliteCMH, I understand what you're saying. But I believe that your comments were a bit flawed. While $20 million may not be significant, it stil
32 ZOTAN: The airlines need to stop complaining about fuel costs. They need to learn to adapt. These high costs are going to be around for a long time to come.
33 AAR90: SESGDL, For a 16-20 year old (your bio) you are sure opinionated without being educated. There is NO money being spent. What is it you do not understa
34 Lufthansa: Spot on!!!!!! All the more reason i say, don't let the old battleaxes fly forever.
35 UALophile: While I'm partial to United, I flew AA yesterday and today from Sacramento to DFW and back, and I was really shocked at how faded and dirty the AA fle
36 Galapagapop: Not bad seeing as fuel was up 1.7 Billion over last year, which was also well above expectations.
37 Lightsaber: Thanks. $3.8 billion is a healthy number for AA. Nice information. Thanks. Have you heard anything on the MD-80's as far as winglets? Ummm... we're t
38 ScottB: Technically, that's not entirely correct. Because the bonuses to the executives are stock options, there is no cash being paid out -- which means tha
39 AAR90: These were accounted for in 2003... when the plans authorized the options.
40 N1120A: Actually, it is much harder on personal bankruptcy than on corporate bankruptcy
41 Rottamo: Healthy amount of cash depends on many factors. One factor is debt repayment timetable. This is from K-10 (last year): Payments Due by Year(s) Ended
42 IceTitan447: I believe Michael Boyd says AA will be the first Legacy out of the pinch. Keep your heads up AA fans!
43 ContnlEliteCMH: I came to this town for school in 1989 and never left. Pretty common story around here! I suggested to my wife that we move us and our 1.2 children t
44 Scalebuilder: I agree that no money (or cash) has been spent. Recording the $20 million will affect the bottom line, however. It is carried in AA's financials righ
45 AAR90: My appologies. It depends upon which "bottom line" you are speaking about. I know there is no $20 million in "bonus" being carried as an Accounts Pay
46 Scalebuilder: Recording the $20 million is really not that big of a deal in the big scheme of things when it comes to AA's financial performance. The options are m
47 AA717driver: I believe AA is in a 'financial coffin corner'. They have the debt service on $20 BILLION and an old fleet. Sure, they can restructure but it's still
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Will it happen? I wish I knew. I know Pratt would sell Pw6000A's very cheap. Would it make sense? Maybe, financing might be the big decider. At least AA was smart enough to halt 50 seat RJ deliveries early minimizing that exposure.
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