OOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1395 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 7656 times:
So....UA will not go all boeing. Airbus is one of their biggest lenders and partners that will help them get out of bankrupcy. After speaking with a UAL 777 captain, I can honestly say that i do not expect ANY boeing orders in the next 10-15 years. I can almost guarantee that UA will choose the A330 to replace the the 767, and will choose the A320 family of planes to keep replacing their aging 737 fleet. As far as their 747 fleet...i dont know. But I do know that its not gonna be a boeing, unless boeing gives UA planes almost for FREE!!!!!
I dont know much about the A350...but I would not be surprised to see UA showing interest in it!!!
DfwRevolution From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 7609 times:
Quoting OOer (Reply 4): I can almost guarantee that UA will choose the A330 to replace the the 767
Seriously?
If UA isn't going to place a major fleet replacement order for 10-15 years, which is probably somewhat accurate, why would they consider the Airbus A330 in 2016-2020?
Quoting OOer (Reply 4): A320 family of planes to keep replacing their aging 737 fleet
With UA recently deferring further A320 purchase rights, the 737 are going to be around for some time.
Quoting OOer (Reply 4): But I do know that its not gonna be a boeing, unless boeing gives UA planes almost for FREE!!!!! I dont know much about the A350...but I would not be surprised to see UA showing interest in it!!!
OOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1395 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 7565 times:
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 5): If UA isn't going to place a major fleet replacement order for 10-15 years, which is probably somewhat accurate, why would they consider the Airbus A330 in 2016-2020?
UA will place a major fleet replacement withing the next 5 years...at least for their 767!!! So even if its in 2010...the A330 will still make sense.
Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 5): With UA recently deferring further A320 purchase rights, the 737 are going to be around for some time.
I would not go that far! I can see all those 737 being replaced within the next 8 years!!!
United WILL post profits in 2006. Once that happens....its a whole new ballgame!
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 7 hours ago) and read 7529 times:
Quoting OOer (Reply 4): So....UA will not go all boeing. Airbus is one of their biggest lenders and partners that will help them get out of bankrupcy. After speaking with a UAL 777 captain, I can honestly say that i do not expect ANY boeing orders in the next 10-15 years. I can almost guarantee that UA will choose the A330 to replace the the 767, and will choose the A320 family of planes to keep replacing their aging 737 fleet. As far as their 747 fleet...i dont know. But I do know that its not gonna be a boeing, unless boeing gives UA planes almost for FREE!!!!!
I dont know much about the A350...but I would not be surprised to see UA showing interest in it!!!
would you care to explain what fantasy world your living in?
UA has one of the largest fleets of 777's in the world....the 777s are robust in what they do (i.e. can be "abused" for short runs such as SFO-DEN")......UA has worked in tandem with Boeing developing the 777..
The 777's have proven its merit..especially against its competitor...
by the time the 767's will be replaced, the A330 will be an obsolete aircraft also...
the various 787 models are perfect for UA's needs.......
the A380 is too large in but a handful of UA's routes, where as the 747-8I and 777-300ER would fit perfectly for certain UA routes..
I've been saying all along (thus agreeing with you by default) that UA will replace the 737's with new A319/A320's.........
don't know if the A321 will replace the 757's..that's a tough call....
Sfomb67 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 417 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 7412 times:
Business is business. I wouldn't expect UA to treat Airbus any differently than they treated their employees. Whoever comes up with the better price package. Loyalty to none.
Centrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3597 posts, RR: 21 Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 6 hours ago) and read 7371 times:
I read the article...now who is merging? I didn't get much out if it.
As for UA fleet. I agree with Sfomb67, UA will redo their fleet based on the needs of the company to do a job and if it fits their pocketbook.
Personally I would like to see the 777-300ER and 788 in UA colors. But if the A350 ends up meeting their long-term needs and pocketbook, then I will be happy with that as well.
Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
Gman3 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 290 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 7327 times:
Quoting OOer (Reply 4): So..... After speaking with a UAL 777 captain, I can honestly say that i do not expect ANY boeing orders in the next 10-15 years
that gave me a good laugh. Just like us flight attendants, they are the last people one should give credence to a rumor!
Luisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 5 hours ago) and read 7290 times:
When will some airbus cheerleaders drill inside their heads the fact that the A358 is TOO large and TOO heavy for the US domestic market. UA, AA, CO, DL and NW all need small widebodies for medium haul domestic routes, the A358 can not perform that task. It is a great airplane for longhauls, but not for short hauls, at least not as currently proposed, maybe a A358 Domestic could be developed in the future.
Most US airlines will need a 763 and an A300 sized airplane, and their is currently only one replacement for each, the 788 and the 783 respectively.
Planemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 5479 posts, RR: 35 Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 4 hours ago) and read 7198 times:
I suppose that the only novelty of this article is that Tilton is stating the obvious to the business press. It is just a matter of time. If airlines were allowed to merge today, it would be interesting to see which airlines would in fact end up merging and which airlines would fall by the wayside.
Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
FCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 4 hours ago) and read 7171 times:
The A321 will almost certainly never replace the B752 on United. The A321 design simply doesn't have the capacity or the legs to do what the 752 does in the United States.
It's a fine competitor over in Europe where stage lengths are much shorter, but on US transcontinental runs the A321 shows many deficiencies in comparison. It's smaller, slower, doesn't climb as fast, struggles to reach altitude with a full load of fuel and is stretched to the limit on range when flying even PHL-SFO routes. It also has poor hot-and-high performance in comparison to the hot-rod 752. That's why the A321 has not sold well in the United States.
By way of comparison:
US A321-200s are configured 26/143 - 169 seats.
UA B757-200s are configured 24/158 - 184 seats.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 2 hours ago) and read 7081 times:
I wonder how long it will take for Scott to see this topic...
Seriously though, whatever UA will choose as 767 fleet replacement for the future, whether it will be the 787 or A330/A350, they will weight out any option and consider every offer they'll get. While the A330 would have the advantage of being offered with PW engines, which would allow them to be more easily integrated into their current PW widebody fleet, the 787 will also offer some cockpit commonality with the 777, 747 and 767, which would make conversion to that type easier. The A330 would also have cockpit commonality with the A319s and A320s in the UA fleet, but the issue is that they would have to learn to fly this new type and while some pilots could have two or even three type ratings for UA's fleet, this would change if UA was to order any Airbus widebodies.
So, as for a future fleet, I see the A319s and A320s having a long future with UA, while a possible widebody order would include a combo of 747-8, 787-8 and just maybe the 777-300ER. I don't think they'll get Airbus widebodies, though I'd love to see one in UA colours.
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4003 posts, RR: 6 Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6855 times:
Quoting OOer (Reply 4): After speaking with a UAL 777 captain, I can honestly say that i do not expect ANY boeing orders in the next 10-15 years.
Is that LSD you're on? Lets think about this logically. I'll ignore the fact that you're basing your prediction on the words of one UA captain, and just go right to the facts.
UA operates it's fleet of 763s on US-Europe and US-Hawaii flights for the most part. The A358 was designed to do one thing: fly longhaul. The 787-8, on the other hand, is being designed to be versatile in just about any route length, and UA would also have the option of ordering 787-3s for domestic routes. Not to mention that UA currently operates a fleet of about 60 777-200s, which will share commonality with the 787. UA needs a 767 replacement, not a 777 replacement, and the A350 just doesn't fit that requirement. Just about every airline that has ordered the 787 has a large 767 fleet that's being replaced. Most A350 orders have been from new airlines, or airlines new to widebodies, or to replace larger aircraft (Finnair). UA isn't going to operate the A350, and I'll even go out on a limb and say they'll never order ANY Airbus widebody anytime in the next 30 years.
And A330s? I won't even go there....
Quoting OOer (Reply 4): unless boeing gives UA planes almost for FREE!!!!!
It's funny you say that...since that's how Airbus got UA to buy A320s! To borrow a term from O'Leary, UA "raped" Airbus on that deal...
Tu154 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 366 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6838 times:
Quoting Sfomb67 (Reply 8): Business is business. I wouldn't expect UA to treat Airbus any differently than they treated their employees. Whoever comes up with the better price package. Loyalty to none.
Well said!
FIRST ON THE ATLANTIC.....FIRST ON THE PACIFIC.....FIRST IN LATIN AMERICA...FIRST 'ROUND THE WORLD.....PAN AM!!
Congaboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 352 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6785 times:
Quoting Sfomb67 (Reply 8): Business is business. I wouldn't expect UA to treat Airbus any differently than they treated their employees. Whoever comes up with the better price package. Loyalty to none.
Yes, and especially true for United, speaking from first-hand experience as a vendor to them (reference to "loyalty to none").
Notice Tilton does not specifically address the rumored UA-CO merge; he just validates mergers are likely to occur...it is the so-called industry analysts that seem to fuel this:
but speculation continues that United could eventually combine with Houston-based Continental (NYSE:CAL) .
UALophile From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 42 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6712 times:
If UA and CO merge, with CO managing the operations, UA will be mostly if not all Boeing within 10 years of the merger. I expect the new airline to still be called "United", just as America West bought USAirways, and took the "bigger" name.
Jgold47 From Djibouti, joined Mar 2005, 95 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6692 times:
Why CO and not NW? Sounds like a lot of the planes are pretty common? United could pull out of ORD and its congestion and move ops to DTW, or even MSP? I dunno, just a thought?
ChicagoFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 247 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6669 times:
Tilton has been predicting airline mergers for the as long as I can remember. Assuming that consolidation helps decrease capacity and increase fares, any merger not involving own company is a dream for an airline CEO. Merger of own company depends on what kind of "golden parachute" the management gets.
I am not sure why the discussion on this forum shifted from "mergers are predicted" to "what airplanes UA will buy". If one assumes that UA wants to grow, you EITHER buy planes OR buy another airline. UA has said explicitly a number of times that they are not buying any planes in the near future (A320s order will probably not happen, unless AB postpones the launch of the new narrowbody).
So forget all the dreams of "I want UA to buy this cool plane." There are only two options--either 1)stay the same size and grow revenues by running a more efficient operation (and UA is not WN--there's plenty of room to increase A/C, gate and personnel utilization), getting synergies with STAR partners and raising fares; or 2)merge. Growing by buying a bunch of new planes is out of the question.
The real point Tilton was making was that the current 'regulatory environment' --read the Republican government--is more accepting of big airline mergers--if it does not involve any foreign ownership. (that is why we have all the alliances and codesharing--cross-border mergers will not happen. Well, who is going to buy who? The acquirer must have the $$ and the target must be a good value proposition (that is, cheap). CO is good but not cheap. NW is cheap but until they restructure, nobody will touch them with a barge pole. DL is too big to be absorbed.
So my 2c is that a major merger is at least 3-5 years away--for UA or any other big US airline.
Poor CO is right. Ual will make them a better airline, they will Have a much nicer route structure and their Hub and spoke will do wonders. So if you really look at it, Lucky CO.
Quoting OOer (Reply 4): I can almost guarantee that UA will choose the A330 to replace the the 767
I disagree.
Quoting Gman3 (Reply 10): that gave me a good laugh. Just like us flight attendants, they are the last people one should give credence to a rumor!
You wish. Some UAL pilots actually get into the brass tacks of the airline. Not all pilots are their for a paycheck, they do take interest in internal affairs. Some pilots I know would talk circles around ANY f/a on the haps of the airline.
Congaboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 352 posts, RR: 3 Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6601 times:
Quoting ChicagoFlyer (Reply 21): 1)stay the same size and grow revenues by running a more efficient operation (and UA is not WN--there's plenty of room to increase A/C, gate and personnel utilization), getting synergies with STAR partners and raising fares
Welcome to a.net, Chicago. I joined yesterday.
I agree with your statement above. I do not think we see UA buying aircraft anytime soon, and they just dont have the muscle nor the appeal (yet) to either acquire or be acquired. They just steadily improve their financials with what they have...and that is a decent plan, IMO. Just continue to leverage what strengths they have to improve stock holder value.
A319 - yes
A320 - yes
B752 - A321, 757s will be on the desert by then
B787 - or A350 equal chances
B772ER - yes
B773ER - yes
B744 - 773ER may take over that job
Generally either you buy 773ER + A380 or 748 to try to cover both. I don't see a point having 773ER and 744 at the same time.
25 Atmx2000: Maybe they would dump the Ted brand and use one of the brands for a low fare service. There would be too much overlap between hubs. UA and NW have ma
26 Planemaker: 30 years is a looooooooooooooong time! No one predicted 10 years ago the mess that the legacies find themselves in today, so I wouldn't go out on a l
27 CHI787ORD: They would never drop ORD. DTW and MSP do not have nearly as much O&D as Chicago does.
28 Ikramerica: That's what I've been saying for a while. Pure conjecture, but if the two were to combine, they would SPIN OFF the entire A320 fleet into "United" wh
29 Atmx2000: That would be the dumbest thing to do if UA and NW were to merge. I'm sure AA would be overjoyed. Anyway UA & CO is attractive because they would hav
30 Atmx2000: It would be probably as close as possible to a viable reincarnation of Pan Am. I would think there would be antitrust considerations regarding the De
31 Wdleiser: If the two merge, I see UA pilots operating the Airbus' and CO pilots operating the CO planes and Boeings. All UA pilots will fly the current UA flee
32 Ikramerica: No, not like PanAm I'm not saying CO would stop domestic flying. Only they would not EXPAND it too much. They would take the UA 737s and 757s and 767s
33 Travelin man: Let's play "guess which hubs would be kept"! UA+CO: My prediction is that SFO, ORD, EWR, and IAH would be kept. LAX, DEN, CLE, and IAD -- buh bye (alt
34 Atmx2000: That's why I said a viable version of Pan Am, meaning it does fly domestically with a sensible network. As for spinning off a LCC carrier, the only r
35 CO767FA: Your DEN prediction would be all wrong. Larry stated in a employee meeting that the biggest error CO made was to abandon DEN.
36 ChicagoFlyer: United has pledged to Denver that they will not decrease their presence there. Should they abandon DEN they will be in big trouble as the city will wa
37 Icetitan447: CO is not but a splinter in a few of those markets. The UAL brand is more powerful in both NRT and LHR. Some of what you say makes sense, but not whe
38 Antoniemey: Got a crystal ball? Or are you just high? No one can guarantee profits until they are in the bank. uh... Continental is as known as United in many ma
39 Midway2AirTran: I agree! Tilton is just trying to add credibility to himself by stating the obivious with his background as an oil tycoon
40 SHUPirate1: I'm assuming you are including the nearly ten billion in monopoly money credits they are expecting the instant they walk out of the Northern District
41 Tu154: Hey....maybe they would dump both names in a merger and call it Pan American World Airways! just a fantasy i guess
42 STT757: CO is more powerful in NYC (largest US market), more powerful in Latin America, Mexico, Caribbean, and larger in the Southeastern US.
43 Jacobin777: But UA is more powerful in the midwest (ORD) and west coast (SFO/LAX/DEN)....not to mention, all the asia routes... Europe..thats a bit of a tossup..
44 Warreng24: Something to think about... CO's 764's painted in UA's new white livery with those raked wingtips.... sexy.
45 STT757: Better yet UAL's 747-400s in CO colors.
47 FCYTravis: Again, you are smoking crack if you think United will replace 757s with A321s. The A321 simply is not a viable replacement for the performance, capac
48 Tu154: Again, what is it with the male preoccupation with size??
49 CoTXDFW777AA: If it went through, which I kinda think it will eventually happen. Give UA a year or two out of bankruptcy, get relatively stable, then will see. I th
50 Jacobin777: say what?? lets see..so if we were to compare BA's route structure with U2's, would that be some kind of "male preoccupation with size"?? bit odd...
51 IceTitan447: I think we all know they wouldn't be. Maybe Tilton, but Brace and Teague(don't know how to spell his name) Would most likely be a thing of the past.
52 STT757: CO flies to Australia (Cairns), and serves more destinations in the Pacific (including 8 in Japan) than UAL and NWA combined.
53 JJeff: Here's how these things work: management engages market research firms to measure the quantifiable brand equity of both partners. Only very seldom do
54 Wdleiser: I think UA and NW both serve more stops from the continental US to Japan than CO does. I also believe UA serves more Australian destinations non stop
55 ChicagoFlyer: I completely agree, the 2006 ACCOUNTING profits at UAL are a sure bet. Have you seen the losses in 2005? On the operating level they were small, but
56 Bels13: Well, a boeing rep on my flight today told me that UA is seriously interested in 737-700/800/900 to replace the 300/500 and airbus aircraft. Furtherm
57 CO767FA: If this rumor becomes reality, look for CO to keep UA hubs were CO still has kitchens (HNL, LAX, DEN) and maintenance facilities. One of the cost cont
58 EA CO AS: Just ever so slightly, though - and only because UA uses much larger equipment to fewer places while CO hits far more destinations with smaller equip
59 Atmx2000: I would think that if CO could fly to LHR, they would carry more transatlantic traffic.
60 Kiwiandrew: correct UA serves one nonstop destination in Australia from the continental US ( SYD from both LAX and SFO - daily for each with 744s plus supplement
61 Ikramerica: Misread what I wrote. Also misread what I wrote. I never used the word HUB for the UNITED LCC. I used Base. Basically focusing on O&D traffic for DEN
62 IceTitan447: Never said you used the word Hub. I wouldn't put anymore Ted in or out of ORD. Never did I say ORD wouldn't be International, UAL isn't going to drop
63 BAW716: Tilton predicting airline mergers....hmmm. Didn't know he had a crystal ball. Sounds like a prediction about UA/CO. CO coming out of SkyTeam would be
65 Bmacleod: If either DL or NWA liquidates, another will have to pick up the pieces. UA's financial position wipes out any chance of them going for the leftovers.
66 Xstro: Denver has zero recourse. They are trying to keep business in town and who can blame them. Airport commerce is HUGE business. They need look no furth
67 GLOBALDUDE: bmacleod, EWR would NEVER be closed in favor of JFK.....EWR is what makes CAL so valuable......
68 Boeingguy1: Busy as a whole airport? Yes. In ORD, UA and AA both make Chicago/O'Hare one of the busiest airports in America. DEN? Uh... I'd say EWR/IAH is a much
69 Boeingguy1: Sorry for the double post, but I didnt read this correctly.... but I will comment. Are you nucking futs? Why in all hell would CO move to JFK? Why do
70 Bobnwa: That would never happen. When did NWA open a hub in SEA?
73 Antoniemey: You know, someone who is 13-15 of age shouldn't claim to have any idea of how mergers are going to happen. Most certainly not without any supporting
74 BAW716: Bmacloud, Thank you for stating SEA is a viable gateway. We are SO ignored here. baw716
75 Slcdeltarumd11: Have you ever seen a map of the US?? Salt Lake City is the only Western Hub for Continental or Delta. Dont try to tell me that Houston is a western h
76 Bmacleod: When did NW open a hub in Memphis? I though that was a Fedex only city.
77 Jamake1: I am not sure why I am even jumping into this discussion, but here goes: A more likely scenario would be a minor financial investment in one or the ot
78 Bobnwa: MEM was a Republic hub that NWA inherited with the NW/RC merger in the mid 80's. Before RC them I believe it was Southern Airlines mini hub. Not sure
79 ORD: Northwest inherited the Memphis hub from its acquisition of Republic back in 1986.
80 Jamake1: The most intelligent posting yet, on this entire topic. One more point: My crystal ball is really clear this morning so here goes... Hubs: (Assuming
81 Stirling: The thought of United never ordering another Boeing product is a potentially ironic twist of history...considering the airline began life as Boeing Ai
82 Bobnwa: I also do not have the data at hand but taking your statement at face value, it is not even close to being correct!!
83 Wdleiser: I still think United would be the name if the two merged. United has the rights at Narita and Heathrow. CO, flies into the small airports in Europe. U
84 HunUtazo: ha ha ha, heh heh heh.. i'm just a stupid kid messenger, and i'll be out shoveling snow in a moment, ouch... however, here ya go... i'll say it again
85 Atmx2000: Perhaps, as I believe Star has restrictive exit policies. I don't think they have many other options. Of course, if there is a wave of mergers among
86 N908AW: I was thinking about this the other day. When AA and TW were on the verge of merging, how many of us doubted the logic behind that merger? We can crit
87 IceTitan447: That would be probably the only obvious. Ual was a founding member of Star, they wont leave it because they merge with CAL.
88 UAL777UK: I could not agree more. Anyone who believes United has just gonr 3yrs of CH11 to wave the name goobye is living in a dream world. Also look for UA to
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that gave me a good laugh. Just like us flight attendants, they are the last people one should give credence to a rumor!
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