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ASA Applies For ATL-KIN  
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32723 posts, RR: 72
Posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3213 times:

Delta Connection carrier ASA has applied with DOT to begin daily Atlanta-Kingston service this summer with a CRJ-700:

http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.c...m?documentid=382631&docketid=23689

IMO, won't work. Kingston is heavy on the cargo. It is a heavy VFR traffic, with a huge bulk of its US traffic coming from Florida and New York City. They would be better off putting a 738 on the flight because even though it would be difficult to fill, that could be made up for with the needed cargo space. Filling 70 seats with the ATL hub won't be difficult. Satisfying the needs for baggage and cargo will be with an RJ.

Current US airlines to Kingston are American Airlines (MIA), Spirit Airlines (FLL), US Airways (FLL), and Continental (EWR). AirJamaica flies from KIN daily to Miami and New York City and thrice daily to Fort Lauderdale, Kingston's largest US O&D market.


a.
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineNLINK From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 313 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3131 times:

Thats easy limit people to 1 Checked bag like EYW and put an embargo on cargo, just take DASH, which has a higher profit margin than big cargo.

User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3049 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
It is a heavy VFR traffic,

What does VFR have to do with it? (Pardon my ignorance if it is an obvious answer.)

Doesn't DL provide mainline service down there already or do they codeshare it all with AirJamaica?



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32723 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3033 times:

Quoting NLINK (Reply 1):
Thats easy limit people to 1 Checked bag like EYW and put an embargo on cargo, just take DASH, which has a higher profit margin than big cargo.

Of course they can, and then they will lose customers who'll be flying AA, JM, etc. instead because those airlines let them take what they need home.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 2):

What does VFR have to do with it? (Pardon my ignorance if it is an obvious answer.)

VFR traffic (Visting Friends & Relatives), especially to the Caribbean, is notorious for taking back a lot of stuff with them.



a.
User currently offlineGSPITNL From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 374 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2988 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
They would be better off putting a 738 on the flight because even though it would be difficult to fill, that could be made up for with the needed cargo space.

I agree completely. Put a 738 on the route and sell the F product cheaper to attract more revenue and then do the Y product at a discounted rate to attract vacationers to fly to KIN. Make up the rest of the profit on the route with the heavy cargo!



Fly Delta - The Only Way To Fly! Silver Medallion Baby :)
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2973 times:

Another DL RJ Carribean route  wink  This route can support something larger IMO but how long will the flight be and does DL still have RJ's on CVG-MBJ(along with 738) and CVG-NAS? What are the other DL RJ Carribean routes?


http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

Maybe DL wants to see how the route will do. If it does well and can support a larger aircraft, DL will put a larger aircraft with more capacity on the route.

User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2943 times:

Is DL replacing a mainline aircraft with a CRJ? No. This is simply a new route. This is simply in addition to the current KIN service. So what if it can't carry much cargo. Its going to be in addition to the current cargo capacity into KIN.


"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3093 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2907 times:

I agree that this plane is too small. However, it's true that the 738 would be tough to fill - KIN isn't really the tourist destination that MBJ is. It's flights like these where DL might be able to find a need for the 73G further down the road (also for some of the more recent Carribbean destinations).

Either way, I wish them luck on the route. The ATL hub is strategically located for connections from most parts of the country to the Carribbean and Latin America. While AA offers the most flights, MIA is a mess and they don't even offer service there from many cities. For instance, to fly SEA-Carribbean on AA, one has to connect twice, usually in MIA and DFW because there is no SEA-MIA direct on AA (they codeshare with AS but that only works going in one direction because of the flight time). DL is much more convenient with only one stop in ATL.

I wonder if DL will consider a daily ATL-PAP in the future? Given the lack of competition at PAP, yields are high. Sure there's not much O&D, but they could probably fill a daily with connecting traffic.


User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

About time DL(ASA) goes for this route. IMHO, KIN was always a gap in DL's route network from ATL, and it was only a matter of time before it would added. Also, like others, I suspect DL will just be testing the waters of this route, and once the route has proven itself loadwise, perhaps even by adding a second daily flight, it would only be a question of time before DL will apply for this route with a 738.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
I wonder if DL will consider a daily ATL-PAP in the future? Given the lack of competition at PAP, yields are high. Sure there's not much O&D, but they could probably fill a daily with connecting traffic.

Guess that could depend on the political situation in Haiti, though I'm honestly not aware of the current ongoings. But anyway, should DL launch this route, it'd probably start out with saturday-only service.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32723 posts, RR: 72
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2755 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 9):

Guess that could depend on the political situation in Haiti, though I'm honestly not aware of the current ongoings. But anyway, should DL launch this route, it'd probably start out with saturday-only service.

If DL were to launch PAP it would - like SDQ and STI - be launched from JFK. JFK would also be a better launching point for KIN, because they could easily send and fill a mainline plane. The problem with "testing the waters" using a CR7 is that they are instantly going to turn customers away from the service because they won't be able to meet their demands for luggage and cargo. So that right there doesn't allow them the oppurtunity to grow in the market. That is exactly what happened with jetBlue using the A320 on JFK-SDQ.



a.
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3093 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2744 times:

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 9):
Guess that could depend on the political situation in Haiti, though I'm honestly not aware of the current ongoings. But anyway, should DL launch this route, it'd probably start out with saturday-only service.

It would not be Saturday only - there are absolutely no tourists on this route. It caters to business and VFR traffic pretty much 100%, who need more than 1 flight a week.

I agree that if started, it would be better to start from JFK.


User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2739 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 10):
The problem with "testing the waters" using a CR7 is that they are instantly going to turn customers away from the service because they won't be able to meet their demands for luggage and cargo.

Didnt DL recently start ATL-STX(I dont remember the exact code) but also with a CRJ-700?

As for PAP DL could fill the planes up IMO but a CRJ-700 wouldnt be suited something like a 733/8/MD-88 would be more appropriate or even a 757. Does AA still send Airbusses down to Haiti?



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32723 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2733 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 12):

Didnt DL recently start ATL-STX(I dont remember the exact code) but also with a CRJ-700?

It was launched with a 738, but didn't perform well so was downgraded.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 11):
It caters to business and VFR traffic pretty much 100%, who need more than 1 flight a week.

Air Canada has been flying to PAP Saturday-only from Montreal for years now, doing just fine. The VFR market can handle Saturday-only.



a.
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2710 times:

Have you ever witnessed check-in for a KIN flight? The baggage is a logistical nightmare, and great expense and inconvenience would be spent interlining it to the final destination. Many airlines operating to the Jamaica impose summer and holiday baggage embargos. Should be interesting.


Above and Beyond
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4895 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2518 times:
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Well, it's been officially announced today:

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/060202/93402.html

Service will start June 1 with a combination of mainline 738s and ASA CR7 based on seasonal demand..


User currently offlineBilly From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2000, 895 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2506 times:

So I assume that the CR7s are over-water equipped. Usually, the regional jets, and a lot of the narrow-body fleets do not have the over-water equipment to allow Caribbean or Mexico flights.

User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2404 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
IMO, won't work. Kingston is heavy on the cargo. It is a heavy VFR traffic, with a huge bulk of its US traffic coming from Florida and New York City. They would be better off putting a 738 on the flight because even though it would be difficult to fill, that could be made up for with the needed cargo space.

What? Effective 1June there will already be a 738 on the route, flight 281. The flight is planned with a 738 week around, and depending on if the ASA application is approved, it will be juggled from 738 to CR7 based on seasonal demand. But as of now, the ASA application is only for that. If the application is rejected, DL will continue the flight with 738 all week like it is already scheduled.

Per the press release: "Delta and Delta Connection carrier Atlantic Southeast Airlines will operate the new service to Kingston year-round using a mix of Boeing 737-800 and Bombardier CRJ700 aircraft, based on seasonal demand."

Once again, as of right now, the schedule is 738 7 days a week.



OttoPylit

Edit: Dang it Panamair, you beat me to it.

[Edited 2006-02-02 21:47:33]

User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32723 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2384 times:

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 17):
What? Effective 1June there will already be a 738 on the route, flight 281. The flight is planned with a 738 week around, and depending on if the ASA application is approved, it will be juggled from 738 to CR7 based on seasonal demand. But as of now, the ASA application is only for that. If the application is rejected, DL will continue the flight with 738 all week like it is already scheduled.

Per the press release: "Delta and Delta Connection carrier Atlantic Southeast Airlines will operate the new service to Kingston year-round using a mix of Boeing 737-800 and Bombardier CRJ700 aircraft, based on seasonal demand."

Once again, as of right now, the schedule is 738 7 days a week.

You are quoting me from almost two weeks ago. At the time I wrote that, I had no idea Delta was planning on using a 738, since the PR was sent out today.



a.
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2340 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 3):
Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 2):

What does VFR have to do with it? (Pardon my ignorance if it is an obvious answer.)

VFR traffic (Visting Friends & Relatives), especially to the Caribbean, is notorious for taking back a lot of stuff with them.

Thanks. Silly old me thinking Visual Flight Rules.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineOttoPylit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2303 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
You are quoting me from almost two weeks ago. At the time I wrote that, I had no idea Delta was planning on using a 738, since the PR was sent out today.

I was informed when I got the information(also about 2 weeks ago) that it would be a 738. My info comes directly from the people who make those decisions. The ASA application was a bonus of "let's have EV apply just in case loads aren't warranted year round."

Other than that, nothing has changed.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 19):
Silly old me thinking Visual Flight Rules.

LOL Same here, that was what I thought when I first saw it. What do Visual Flight Rules have to do with route planning? LOL



OttoPylit


User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3805 posts, RR: 29
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2196 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Delta Connection carrier ASA has applied with DOT to begin daily Atlanta-Kingston service this summer with a CRJ-700

Thank you (sincerely!) for an accurate topic title, instead of the misleading "Delta Applies For..." or "Delta Announces New Service To..." titles that we typically see when, in reality, the flights are yet more RJ service from a legacy surrogate airline.

Have to say I can't see the sense in DL* (opb ASA) ATL-KIN with CR7, but who knows? Let's see how it "plays out."


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