Miamiair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (7 years 5 months 12 hours ago) and read 6749 times:
The father of the Chalk's amphibian that crashed off of Miami Beach last month , has sued Chalk's for wrongful death. The father is seeking damages of 100M for the estate of his daughter, Captain Michelle marks. The suit alleges that Chalk's knew the airplane was not properly maintained since 1991.
Source: The Miami Herald, 21 JAN 06, Local section.
The firm handling the suit is none other than Motley Rice, with the case being handled by Mary Schiavo. "on aging aircraft, you must have a program to arrest and fix and do something about corrosion," said the attorney.
"this airplane belonged in a museum, it didn't belong flying people back and forth accross the islands," said J.B. Harris, a partner in Motley Rice. "It was a relic."
That being said, IMHO, these people are as full of crap as a Christmas Goose.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11742 posts, RR: 51 Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 11 hours ago) and read 6702 times:
Quoting Miamiair (Thread starter): The suit alleges that Chalk's knew the airplane was not properly maintained since 1991.
Quoting Miamiair (Thread starter): "this airplane belonged in a museum, it didn't belong flying people back and forth accross the islands," said J.B. Harris, a partner in Motley Rice. "It was a relic."
That's lawyers for you. It seems, from these statements, you don't have to maintane a vintage aircraft for, at least, 14 years?
It was a tragic accident. but, please let the ambalance chasers wait, at least, until the final accident report, with contributing factors, causes, and other conclusions, is released from the NTSB.
BTW, I'll bet Motley Rice signed for 40%-50% of the settlement.
Semsem From Israel, joined Jul 2005, 1779 posts, RR: 3 Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 6444 times:
I flew on Chalk in 1976 and 1979. It was one of the most fantastic experiences. From Paradise Island, Bahamas to Miami with a stop in Bimini, where we had time to go for a little walk.
Already then, I felt slightly uncomfortable as they seemed old. In fact LOL they were already about 30 years old.
Antoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1509 posts, RR: 4 Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 6437 times:
Quoting Door5Right (Reply 2): EVERYONE should read Mary Shiavo's book "Flying Safe, Flying Blind".
Shiavo is the former Inspector General of the USA Department of Transportation and a champion of air safety.
And, apparently, she's also an idiot. As has been said MANY TIMES, there is nothing unsafe about flying old aircraft when properly maintained. Now, obviously something was missed on that plane. Personally, I don't believe it was due to negligence by the company, but apparently the pilot's father thinks so and that's what the lawyers are going to try to prove.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
EA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 12594 posts, RR: 64 Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6115 times:
Quoting Miamiair (Thread starter): The firm handling the suit is none other than Motley Rice, with the case being handled by Mary Schiavo.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - they pulled the plug on the wrong Mrs. Schiavo.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
AeroTycoon From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 101 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6020 times:
Quoting Luisca (Reply 7): I think the tombstone for Chalks has been written. No matter what the outcome of the case.
Apodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 3652 posts, RR: 6 Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5996 times:
Is this the same woman who determined that ValuJet was using unsafe practices and tried to convince congress in her capacity as inspector general to do something, and then congress smeared her and told her to pack sand? As I recall a couple of months later, ValuJet crashed into the everglades.
She left the federal government because she felt that when she was doing her job, she would get smeared by congress and pressured from special interest groups on the issue, and she didn't want to be a part of this corruption.
She was a great public servant, unfortunately, if this is the same woman I think it is, she is now in the business of filing frivolous lawsuits. The Pinnacle one is certainly that, but I don't know about this one since I don't know the facts.
N501US From United States of America, joined May 2005, 211 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5224 times:
Quoting Door5Right (Reply 2): EVERYONE should read Mary Shiavo's book "Flying Safe, Flying Blind".
Viggen From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 7 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5180 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 1): It was a tragic accident. but, please let the ambalance chasers wait, at least, until the final accident report, with contributing factors, causes, and other conclusions, is released from the NTSB.
I seem to believe that NTSB reports are not admissable in a civil suit.
Smcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4975 times:
Quoting Semsem (Reply 4): Personally, I don't believe it was due to negligence by the company, but apparently the pilot's father thinks so and that's what the lawyers are going to try to prove.
Doesn't the captain have right to refuse to fly the plane if he thinks its unsafe? Of course, being as small of an airline (if thats what you call it) as Chalk's is, he'd probably have lost his job for doing so. I would rather lose my job than my life if I knew the plane hadn't been maintained in 14 years. I think Chalk's, as many of you have said, is done no matter the outcome of this case.
Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4811 times:
Quoting Door5Right (Reply 2): EVERYONE should read Mary Shiavo's book "Flying Safe, Flying Blind".
..and when they do so, they should count all the mistakes that she made in it, mistakes that suggested (to many) that she's not exactly the "expert" that claims to be. Accordingly, she has credibility problems with many, and seems to be a good application of the old addage that "even a busted clock is correct twice a day..."
Galapagapop From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 910 posts, RR: 4 Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4657 times:
Schiavo is a non-expert. She like aviation, but seems to have a beef on everyone. The A/C may be old but it wasn't unsafe. Old isn't always bad. its associated with that ideal as when its fuel consumption becomes well under par it moves on to other operators for less money, soon its flying trips in a 3rd world country, with sometimes below standard maintence practices and it eventually crashes and soon its becuase its 20 years old, not that it flew for an airline subsidises by a dictator or something. Personally I'd prefer being on an older more greased up bird than a spanking new plane espcially with engines that are at the start of their life.
AirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4652 times:
Quoting Semsem (Reply 4): I flew on Chalk in 1976 and 1979. It was one of the most fantastic experiences.
Until the wing falls off and you burn in midair while falling 500 MPH into the ocean. I hope the family gets every penny and others should get compensation also. If a company can't keep it's plane safe for years then they don't deserve to be in business flying people.
JBirdAV8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4459 posts, RR: 22 Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4461 times:
Quoting Greasespot (Reply 18): You know for all your critism....you would do exactally the same thing if you lost your daughter in such a horrible way.....
Actually, my parents always taught me that you can't put a price on a human life. Too bad these jerks are trying to profit off of their daughter's death. $100 million is not "punitive," it's outrageous and absolutely despicable.
Now OTOH if they do get awarded some amount (I'm guessing it will be MAYBE a hundredth of that) and donate the entire sum to, say, the AOPA Air Safety Foundation, that'd be a different story altogether, but who honestly believes THAT will happen?
Yeah. Exactly.
I'm sure the captain wouldn't have wanted it that way, besides.
Jat74l From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 618 posts, RR: 16 Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4437 times:
Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 14): he'd probably have lost his job for doing so
For the record HER name (the Captan's) name was Michelle Marks.
Quoting AirWillie6475 (Reply 17): If a company can't keep it's plane safe for years then they don't deserve to be in business flying people.
I agree with this. No matter how much romance the Chalks operation generates it is a transportation company. I tried to book a flight on this very aircraft in Sept 2005 regardless of it's age as, I put my TRUST in the operator just like I put my trust in the company who operated the 747-400 that took me to the Bahamas.
Let's wait for the outcome of the NTSB investigation and ignore the showboating of the vulture lawers.
John
I like trains just as much as planes but trains don't like the Atlantic!
Eaglekeeper101 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 272 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4379 times:
Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 19): $100 million is not "punitive," it's outrageous and absolutely despicable.
The entire "sue everybody for everything" culture is outrageous and despicable.
I understand the need for taking personal responsibility, but does anybody believe that accidents - real accidents - can happen anymore? I don't, because there are too many lawyers out plying their trade who won't let accidents be "accidents."
Has anybody ever noticed how many ridiculous lawsuits are filed where the plantiffs comment that "it's not about money?" If the father thought that his daughter was worth $100 million after her death, why didn't he just spend outrageous amounts of money insuring her for that amount instead? I'll hazard an answer to that - it's easier to make everybody else pay instead.
Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 19): Now OTOH if they do get awarded some amount (I'm guessing it will be MAYBE a hundredth of that) and donate the entire sum to, say, the AOPA Air Safety Foundation, that'd be a different story altogether, but who honestly believes THAT will happen?
I certainly don't. But remember - it's not about the money.
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens." - Bahá'u'lláh
Hawk44 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 759 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4324 times:
Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 19): Too bad these jerks are trying to profit off of their daughter's death. $100 million is not "punitive," it's outrageous and absolutely despicable
I agree
Quoting JBirdAV8r (Reply 19): Now OTOH if they do get awarded some amount (I'm guessing it will be MAYBE a hundredth of that) and donate the entire sum to, say, the AOPA Air Safety Foundation, that'd be a different story altogether, but who honestly believes THAT will happen?
It probably will not but I do I remember seeing a story after the crash with her husband where he was trying to start a memorial and have the money go towards marine biology research of some kind since that was what she studied in college and it was something they both enjoyed together. Is the husband also involved in this lawsuit?
I have no problem with victims of air disasters being compensated for losses however, I would at least wait and hear the results from the investigation before filing suit. I also doubt Chalks had any malicious intent with their maintenance, think about it the cost of routine maintenance is far less then financially breaking a company to pay lawsuits such as this and the others that may or may not follow.
Andz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8306 posts, RR: 11 Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4135 times:
Quoting Semsem (Reply 4): Already then, I felt slightly uncomfortable as they seemed old. In fact LOL they were already about 30 years old.
Old does not equate to unsafe. SAA has 2 DC-4s in regular use, one is the last DC-4 ever built, completed in August 1947 and is perfectly safe due to the meticulous maintenence it receives.
30 years old, was it a NW-DC9? lol
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
Monger? LOL, Haven't heard that one in awhile. Get off it, the woman points out certain things, most of them are important to air safety. Lose the propaganda, you sound like Howard Dean.
Quoting Viggen (Reply 13): I seem to believe that NTSB reports are not admissable in a civil suit.
Makes sense, you all fail to realize that the NTSB's final findings are still probable cause. This is far from actually saying what happened. I think when a plane falls apart in mid air it is reasonable to assume many things. One is age and the other is maintenance. I think this lawsuit is a bit premature but Chalks may be in trouble.
25 Antoniemey: Dude, take it easy there. ONE incident, however horrible, cannot prove a lack of maintenance. Now, if they open up the wings of other planes and seve
26 Seanp11: Lets wait for the NTSB report before we do all this fingerpointing
27 OPNLguy: There is still, of course, a big difference between probable cause and possible cause(s)....
28 APFPilot1985: Where were you to defend her asinine statement that Foreign built planes are unsafe? You sure stayed away from that thread.
29 Gilligan: Publicity hound is more like it. AirTran should put in a bid today. Suing is now part of the grieving process?
30 FlyMIA: I thought it was not all ValuJet fault. I thought it was the maintnece company which did not put a hazardous material lable on the cargo which was se
31 MiCorazonAzul: It was a ValuJet manager's fault. He found those things at the airport, didn't know what they were so he put them on the flight to ATL since that was
32 OPNLguy: Not to get any further off-topic, but the SabreTech folks also made some goofs, and a major one was not installing the protective caps on the ends of
33 APFPilot1985: Ultimate responsibility of deciding if an A/C is fit for flight rests with the PIC. Her family/estate can be looking forward to some nice large suits
34 Wjcandee: You know, FWIW, it seems from the pre-accident publicity that the Chalks folks, rightly or wrongly, believed that they were running a very safe operat
35 TWA902fly: Just one question... according to what i've been learning at UND... the PIC is responsible to make sure the aircraft is airworthy. Are the lawyers say
36 Scbriml: You consider a plane falling apart in mid-air is safe?
37 Wjcandee: I think what he is saying is that merely because an airframe is an older airframe, it is not by definition "unsafe"; it can be kept safe.
38 APFPilot1985: I'm thinking he may have meant that just because it was old doesn't inherently mean that it is unsafe.
39 Ikramerica: I had a digital clock that read 88:88 all the time, flashing. Which two times of day is that right?
40 NIKV69: Didn't see the thread, I wouldn't say they are unsafe but I believe US made aircraft are superior. Well we argued this, for someone to claim ignoranc
41 Crogalski: wouldn't she have noticed any stress or cracks in her preflight inspection? I think seaplanes would go through some sort of outer preflight inspection
42 OPNLguy: Not unless she was Superwoman, and used her X-ray vision to detect the internal crack in the wing spar... I don't think there was a thing that either
43 APFPilot1985: Yeah no doubt on that, however she ultimately must have been satisfied that the a/c was airworthy, and that inspections were complete.
44 Bennett123: It seems to me that sueing before the NTSB report is somewhat premature. How about reading the report, and then deciding if the airline were negligant
45 Miamiair: But it does get Scary Mary where she wants to be: in the spot light. She now can stand on her soap box and preach that any airplane built before 1986
46 Smcmac32msn: Thank you for the correction. I didn't know it was a female pilot and I apologize for my mistake. RIP to everybody on the flight that day.
47 Pmanchuk: You know, I have to say... I really hope this is NOT the end of Chalks. Every airline unfortuantely has an accident at some point... and the the unfor
48 USXguy: Interesting that Michelle's hubby hasn't sued. Unfortunately this is a risk we all take working in the business. I wouldn't be surprised to see Chalks
49 Antoniemey: No flames here, I agree with you for the most part.
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