A private jet coming in for a landing at Palomar airport, a small commercial airport in northern San Diego county, came in too fast and skidded off the runway, crashed into a self-storage facility retaining wall, and burst into flames.
The helicopter shot I saw on this morning's news had a green tail visible - I was afraid at first that it was an America West RJ, but apparently that is not the case. Still a very sad incident.
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Boeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10484 times:
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 5): I certainly hope so, too - general aviation and military aviation are much different cases for NIMBY's, so I don't forsee any changes to policies here.
The larger problem is convincing developers that building around airports isn't such a good idea.
In the end, the Cities themselves are the ones that approve development projects. Some cities that operate airports are stupid enough to allow incompatible development. In other cases where airports are run by Special Districts, the City overrides the recommendations by the Special District. Maybe a few hundred dead people one of these days will do the trick. It's a sick thought, yes, but it's an unfortunate reality.
Av8rPHX From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 713 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10428 times:
Quoting PanAm747 (Thread starter): The helicopter shot I saw on this morning's news had a green tail visible - I was afraid at first that it was an America West RJ, but apparently that is not the case. Still a very sad incident.
We dont fly a RJ into CRQ, you may have seen one of our Dash 8s though.
Tom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 35
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10374 times:
My brother works off El Camino Real (which runs along the east end of Carlsbad) a mile or so north of the airport. With the accident along the west end of the airport, he says he didn't see anything when he turned from westbound Palomar Airport Road onto northbound El Camino Real around 7am: http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?ad...fornia&country=us&new=1&name=&qty=
However he did say that co-workers who were in the area around 6:30am did see the smoke.
RIP those who died.
Tom at MSY
"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
Something must have been wrong with that aircraft, with a 4900' runway that would be plenty of time to still slow down to a reasonable speed with out brakes. As it is that plane just smashed through the ILS shack and flew down the slope into the other building. Very sad and very scary - RIP to all souls aboard.
AirWillie6475 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 2448 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10068 times:
According to news the flames were caused by the plane hitting the storage units. The storage units at the end of the runway contained flammable materials or liquids according to the local news. Why would someone with a brain store flammable liquids at the end of any runway? Look what happened.
PSAjet17 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9155 times:
The crew is identified as pilot Jack Francis and co-pilot was Andy Garrett. The plane was registered to Goship Air LLC of Ketchum, Idaho. One of the victims was identified by the Associated Press as Frank H. Jellinek Jr., 59, chairman emeritus of Fisher Scientific International, a Hampton, N.H., company that provides products and services for labs and clinics. The forth victim is the wife of Goship Air owner Ketchum City Councilman Steve Shafran.
After failing to stop on the runway, the Citation 560 plowed through a navigation structure (ILS) and then went down an enbankment where it hit a commercial storage facility located off the airport property.
Socalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8861 times:
I've flown in and out of Palomar several times. The runway runs dramatically uphill from east to west and literally has no runoff area at the west end, then drops off about 150' down the embankment. In other words there is no margin for error.
Av8trxx From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 657 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6253 times:
Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 11): A witness is now stating that it came in gear up and a very high rate of speed and descent.
Although it is no longer available, the Flight Aware nav log showed that the entire approach was at 190kts or greater. (All but one radar return showed speeds in excess of 200 kts) The last return was 227 kts @ 300 feet.
Pretty darn fast to be on approach to a 4800 ft strip.
2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6108 times:
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Quoting Aerobalance (Reply 24): Are they designed to crash? Should an airfield be designed for this 'reality'? As a pilot, I never believe in crashing the plane I fly - it sounds as if you do.
Like so many issues discussed in this forum, this is being presented as black-or-white, all-or-nothing issue
Should measures be taken to minimize injuries/fatalities in the event of a short landing or overrun? Absolutely. Planes do crash, and Boeing7E7 makes a great point, pointing out that ignoring that reality is foolish. The second we become reactive...rather than proactive...to flight safety issues, people will die unnecessarily as a result.
At the same time, we cannot realistically expect airfields be built in remote areas and covered with padding. An airport that is absolutely perfect in the technical sense is not necessarily going to work well in the commercial sense, and vice versa.
The reality is, like many aspects of aviation, compromises have to be made. It's not all-or-nothing. In this case, measures absolutely should be taken to increase the safety of the surrounding areas of an airport, but as soon as those measures produce a significantly negative impact on the useability of the airport, they've been taken too far.
Boeing7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6101 times:
Quoting 2H4 (Reply 26): Should measures be taken to minimize injuries/fatalities in the event of a short landing or overrun? Absolutely. Planes do crash, and Boeing7E7 makes a great point, pointing out that ignoring that reality is foolish. The second we become reactive...rather than proactive...to flight safety issues, people will die unnecessarily as a result.
Precisely my point, and as it be the Developers and poor City Management in San Diego County have ignored these realities.