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US Airways To Hawaii Having A Rocky Start  
User currently offlineBallsdeep From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 56 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 11031 times:

Looks like the new flights to Hawaii are not off to the best of starts.

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/0125hawaiiflights25.html

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3963 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10969 times:

Eh, it's kinda old news. Nothing to read too much into, the same thing happens when a flight goes down on mechanical, especially at field stations....people get pissed, and it happens with every airline, every day.

That said, it IS a seasonal thing. Once the winds change, everyone will have forgotten about it.


User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2071 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10969 times:

Ah, teething problems on a new route. This is one of US's (HP) longest and most complex routes; I'm sure they'll get things sorted out given time. In the meantime, sounds like it's been rough on passengers and employees alike.

User currently offlineDfwagt From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 78 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10969 times:

Perhaps they could use one of the 762s on the route? It holds about the same amount of pax, but they could take a full load.

User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7737 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10942 times:

This has already been discussed in the past few weeks.


But I think the magnitude of the problem is greatly overstated. By HP's own numbers, only .5% of pax since the routes inaguration have been involuntarily bumped. Since this is also the first time America West has operated such a flight (yeah, yeah I know they did this 15 years ago w/ the 747) there were bound to be some problems that needed to be worked out. Hopefully when the paperwork change is finalized most of the technical issues will be worked out.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineNeednewairport From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 10785 times:

This not surprising, they are pushing the 757 to the limits with this route. I cannot imagine what they will do when it is 110 in PHX and they are trying to take off.

User currently offlineAlexInWa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10594 times:

We all knew this would happen. One would think they would put the 767 on this route.


You mad Bro???
User currently offlineCltguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 597 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10594 times:

Quoting Neednewairport (Reply 5):
This not surprising, they are pushing the 757 to the limits with this route. I cannot imagine what they will do when it is 110 in PHX and they are trying to take off.

They will ask the passengers to get out and give the plane a little push. lol


User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1593 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10570 times:

The article states...

The planes already carry extra fuel because there is no place to tank up between here and Hawaii.

LAX would not work as a quick fuel stop? They have a 8 hr turn around on the islands so a late arrival is not the end of the world.



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1829 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10508 times:

I wish the new US well, and I hope they can work the problems out with their Hawaiian flights, but I don't think I'd want to fly from PHX to Hawaii on a 757. They ought to use a 767 or A330.


Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineJunction From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 766 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10457 times:

How does TZ do it? They have been flying 757s from PHX to Hawaii for years.

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10444 times:

Quoting Junction (Reply 10):
How does TZ do it? They have been flying 757s from PHX to Hawaii for years.

And CO goes Europe-EWR as well.


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7737 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 10362 times:

Folks, from all accounts it looks mostly like a paperwork issue. PHX-HNL/OGG is not all that long of a flight for a 757, it is more a matter of making sure the aircraft has a legal amount of fuel on board to making the crossing from the mainland to the islands. Once the MTOW is raised on the 3 ETOPS 757s should have much fewer problems. An extra 10,000lbs of payload would certainly make a huge difference.

The 57s that UA, AA, and TZ fly to Hawaii from the west coast probably have the higher MTOW already.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10265 times:

Quoting Neednewairport (Reply 5):
I cannot imagine what they will do when it is 110 in PHX and they are trying to take off.

One thing has nothing to do with the other. You're talking about a temperature component to takeoff performance. The story mentions how they need to offload passengers to carry the requisite fuel load because of seasonal headwinds. There are no isses with regards to the 757's peformance on takeoff. The two are not related.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10183 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 12):
The 57s that UA, AA, and TZ fly to Hawaii from the west coast probably have the higher MTOW already.

Indeed.

UA's Cali-based 752s employ the PW2040 specifically for that purpose.


User currently offlineWA727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10152 times:

This problem will be tested again when they start KOA and LIH service from PHX in March. Hoping the loads will justify use of the 762 or even the A333 on the HNL route, but I doubt it. Currently pax have a choice between HA 763, TZ 752 and HP/US 752 from PHX. Can we stop typing HP/US yet?

WA727 in PHX



Don't just stand there, go get some glue!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10115 times:

Quoting WA727 (Reply 15):
Hoping the loads will justify use of the 762 or even the A333 on the HNL route, but I doubt it.

No amount of loads will justify either. HNL is strong performing, but the international routes are stronger.

This will all be resolved. These 757s are a low gross weight. They can be fixed with paperwork.

N


User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7737 posts, RR: 16
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10074 times:

Plus until the integration is complete, ie everyone on the US cert, I don't believe that a USEast aircraft can operate a USWest route.

Plus as Neil said the 67s and 333s are far more needed on TA flights ex-PHL/CLT.



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineWA727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10074 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 16):
No amount of loads will justify either. HNL is strong performing, but the international routes are stronger

True the intl routes out of PHL and CLT are strong. PHX has yet to see the A330.



Don't just stand there, go get some glue!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10027 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 17):
Plus until the integration is complete, ie everyone on the US cert, I don't believe that a USEast aircraft can operate a USWest route.

US East can operate two Hawaii flights under the current agreement. Maybe there will be some winter HNL flying with a 762 that's off the Europe rotation, but probably not just yet.

Quoting WA727 (Reply 18):
PHX has yet to see the A330.

And they probably won't for a while... the A333 is not the ideal plane for Phoenix-Europe services, unfortunately. They could maybe get a good London service but it would certainly be restricted by some small amount.

US does not have a good plane presently for PHX-EU services at all, actually. Their 767-200ERs are also a lower gross weight and would need engine upgrades in addition to the MTOW upgrades to make Phoenix a reliable service.

N


User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1612 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 9977 times:

I wouldn't exactly call having to bump customers because the plane is so full a bad thing. I mean granted, it is not good on one hand, but maximum capacity flights are a good thing. I suppose a lot deals on yields, but filling a plane up, generally, is good. At least they are getting market share.

How many A330s are on order? Though HP is operating the flight now, a US A-330 could takes its place if this trend keeps up and/or during the busy season and/or high wind. I guess the 762 is an option too, just hoping for the A-330.

M


User currently offlineUA2162 From United States of America, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 488 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 9920 times:

Quoting WA727 (Reply 15):
This problem will be tested again when they start KOA and LIH service from PHX in March.

Great! I just got a job as a CSR for the KOA flight (I start on Monday.) Hopefully most of the bugs will be worked out before they start KOA service. At least I hope they are!


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 9872 times:

the thread heading is a bit off...this is a "good" problem too have...TOO many pax...

now if they had too few passengers,then the "rocky start" would be more appropriate...


HP will do fine once the paperwork is sorted out....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3963 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9655 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 22):
the thread heading is a bit off...this is a "good" problem too have...TOO many pax...

now if they had too few passengers,then the "rocky start" would be more appropriate...

The problem referred to was planes being fully booked, but having to bump pax for whom seats WERE available because of weight and headwind issues. Thus, the aircraft flew with a number of empty seats.

That said, most of the problems were during the first week or so of service. This is when a large amount of heavy cargo was being carried to stock the stations. Spare tires, towbars, maintenance equipment etc. That's some pounds right there. I'm not sure if they are doing this as flights start up, or if they have already equipped the KOA and LIH stations.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9485 times:

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 19):
Their 767-200ERs are also a lower gross weight and would need engine upgrades in addition to the MTOW upgrades to make Phoenix a reliable service.

couldnt be that difficult to accomplish (and that's if it's even necessary for their entire 762ER fleet) considering that they at one point considered flying said aircraft PHL-NRT.


25 Gigneil : You might be quite right... but I couldn't imagine it to be cost effective to do at this time with a fleet of 332s and 358s on the way. I would leave
26 PanAm747 : I'm still not sure why HP ended their code share with Hawaiian Airlines on this route. Hawaii routes are almost all leisure travellers. Not the high y
27 CALMSP : yes, temperature plays a factor, also PHX/LAS is also a lot higher elevation than that of LAX/SFO
28 Alexinwa : If I am correct they have a number of 767's and a 333 doing PHL/CLT/CUN/SJU. So the reason they couldn't swap for Hawaii is not because of the atlanti
29 AlexInWa : PHL-AMS 767 #42 PHL-CLT 767 #183 PHL-CLT 767 #1075 PHL-CLT 767 #307 PHL-FRA 333 #782 PHL-LGW 333 #98 PHL-MAD 767 #12 PHL-MAN 333 #196 PHL-MUC 767 #14
30 MidnightMike : Wonder if there was a tour group of scuba divers? That is a lot of weight to cause an aircraft to go overweight on just passengers & bags for a 757.
31 Tornado82 : Hmm... the CLT-PIT-PHL repositioning run is gone? I got my first ever 767 trip on that one 2 years ago, and remember almost booking it as recently as
32 Usairways85 : Are you referring to 762 CLT-PHL-CLT flts, because if so you can look a few posts up that shows 3 daily CLT-PHL 762 flts. Which is surprising to me,
33 FXramper : Is HNL gated restricted? Drew!
34 VEEREF : ??? Actually temp has everything to do with this. If the temperature rises, takeoff performance does indeed deteriorate, necessitating a further redu
35 ConcordeBoy : when are those scheduled for first delivery?
36 Post contains images Bomber996 : The 757 has AMAZING takeoff performance. depending on the lenght of the runway it is using the 757 SHOULD have no problem making it to HNL from PHX,
37 Stirling : Hawaii is hot right now. Very hot. Doing a little comparison shopping...(Longest Continental-US route vs. Longest Domestic-US route) 031106-031906 PH
38 DesertJets : As far as I can surmise the flights are departing at or near MTOW (in this case ~240,000#). But due to fuel requirements on this flight pax/cargo pay
39 Tornado82 : It's more than 2 years ago come to think of it.... But I definitely flew MGW-PIT-CLT-MDW once in college, it was one of those "want to go home, will
40 Leothedog : So what? Not everyone who comes in to a.net and reads these threads reads every thread and responses ever posted. I come and go and I've never seen t
41 OPNLguy : If HP is trying to get certification from Boeing for 250,000 lbs versus 240,000 lbs., it sounds like we're talking a max structural takeoff weight lim
42 Neednewairport : Thank you, my point exactly. When I worked flights LAS to HNL in the summer we were restricted due to high temps and weight. I just wonder how HP, op
43 Jetdeltamsy : Don't UA and AA fly 75's to/from the West Coast? Do they have the same problems???
44 ContinentalEWR : The US Hawaii routes are no way the longest in their system. All the European flights are longer.
45 Cubsrule : The 67s do warm-weather destination flights every winter. I don't know if US needs the capacity, but I assume they do. Hawaii takes up several of a f
46 Positiverate : I couldnt have said it better.
47 Hawaiian717 : Maybe not for the airline, but you're talking about getting a whole planeload of people to HNL late, which means you piss off all of them, whether be
48 777fan : That would play right into HA's hands. Why would you want to take a meaningless 40 minute flight to refuel? Waste of fuel and potential revenue, yes?
49 ConcordeBoy : ...for the US/HP system of course
50 Ha763 : What do you mean by gate restricted? The arrival time of their flight is after the mid-day rush of flights and all the gates at the Overseas Terminal
51 Gigneil : Come on boss. Read the thread. The ex-HP 757s need MTOW upgrades. N
52 Transtar01 : Not a good start for the new USAirways service. I've traveled on them all to HNL, and the absolute best way to travel is on the daily Continental 767-
53 VEEREF : Yes, it does have spectacular performance, but even the mighty 757 is not immune to atmospheric changes. Keep in mind that it's not just a matter of
54 VEEREF : Okay, still confused how temperature and weight do not seem to be a factor for HP 757's when those two criteria apply to EVERY other aircraft ever bu
55 Wjcandee : Yeah, they would, according to the article. Once again, it's near the aircraft's permissible MTOW, which can be fixed with an (expensive) paperwork c
56 We're Nuts : If it hadn't come from an HP ramper, I wouldn't have believed it.
57 HPRamper : Obviously the point of that post was missed. I mentioned the HNL weight story was old news. The response I got was that sometimes people miss the news
58 Coronado990 : A quick fuel stop may avoid this... Phoenix frequent flier Alan Anderson, a loyal America West customer, flew from Phoenix to Honolulu on Jan. 2. He
59 HPRamper : It happens every day on other flights. People know about the Hawaii flights now, it's in the computers and online so it shouldn't be considered some n
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