Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
BMI Moving Jobs To India  
User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4371 times:

SOURCE:


"LONDON: Over 150 workers at Castle Donington-based British airline BMI face redundancy because their jobs are to be moved to India.

BMI announced that 154 accounts department workers, all based at its Donington Hall head office, have been told they are at risk of redundancy. It said the move followed a 12-month review of "systems and practices".

A statement said: "BMI is working with industry specialists Kale Consultants of India to develop and implement a new system."

Spokesman Phil Shepherd said Kale Consultants would take over the work done by the accounts department workers to improve efficiency and reduce costs.

He admitted the work would be carried out in India, not Britain. Although 154 workers have been given notice of redundancy, Shepherd said the change would create 21 new posts at Donington Hall.

He said it was hoped that with redeployment and voluntary severance, the number of compulsory redundancies could be kept to about 100. The new system is expected to begin in July.

BMI said it had entered into discussions with staff and the GMB union (Britain's general trade union) and promised a 90-day consultation period, starting two days ago. About 800 people are employed at Donington Hall - 290 work in the department affected by the announcement.

BMI spokeswoman Jo Tabberer said: "There will be a net loss of 133 positions. This is due to new technology in ticket transaction processing. Things can be done more efficiently now and that reduces cost and, unfortunately, reduces manning levels."

Jed Purkis, regional organiser at the GMB union, said moving the jobs to India would create resentment among staff and customers.

"The company that has supplied the computer system is running it from India, meaning the jobs will be replaced by low cost posts," he said.

"It would be a gamble on the company's part because of the backlash we have seen against those who export jobs to low cost countries"


48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHS748 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4280 times:

India is well known for the high callibre of its accountancy profession, so this is no surprise. Many companies, including BA, have already outsourced some or all of their finance departments to India. It's called globalisation!

User currently offlineConcentriq From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 368 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4207 times:

Quoting HS748 (Reply 1):
India is well known for the high callibre of its accountancy profession

This was meant to be sarcastic, correct? This is indeed called globalisation, but primary driver for this is NOT "quality" or "high callibre", but "low cost". Nothing against indian workers, but "low cost" what India is known for, which is exactly what doctor ordered for some companies.



Mobilis In Mobili
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4182 times:

I don't know why they don't move the whole airline to India. To survive this year BMI will probably need low cost everything from directors to cleaners.

User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3107 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4165 times:

Quoting Concentriq (Reply 2):
Nothing against indian workers, but "low cost" what India is known for, which is exactly what doctor ordered for some companies.

Yes, but remember that without acceptable quality, this would never happen...if cost was the only criteria, I guess Somalia or some such place would be a better option...do you see that happening? Ask yourself why...and things will be much clearer....


User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 47
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4150 times:

Quoting Concentriq (Reply 2):
This was meant to be sarcastic, correct? This is indeed called globalisation, but primary driver for this is NOT "quality" or "high callibre", but "low cost". Nothing against indian workers, but "low cost" what India is known for, which is exactly what doctor ordered for some companies.

Indian exam for certified accountants(CA) is much harder than the US equivalent CPA exam.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 4):
Yes, but remember that without acceptable quality, this would never happen...if cost was the only criteria, I guess Somalia or some such place would be a better option...do you see that happening? Ask yourself why...and things will be much clearer....

Very well put.


User currently offlineCalAir From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 298 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

Well if they are anything like the call center agents ive experienced with Capital One and 3 mobile god help BMI! Different profession I know.


British Caledonian...we never forget, you have a choice
User currently offlineAirRyan From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2532 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4105 times:

Rumor has NW sending a great majority of their rez agent jobs to Singapore. Dell had bad luck with their call centers in India though, so many are realizing that it's not all gravy as some might like to project it to be.

User currently offlineNethkt From Thailand, joined Apr 2001, 1086 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4045 times:

Yep, this is not something new.

All Europeans and American airlines are moving as much department as they can to Asia. Lower cost is what (nearly) everyone's need.

Not only ticket, reservations, pre-flight units, mileage but aslo load control!!  Wink



Let's just blame it on yields.
User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2889 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3997 times:

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 7):
Dell had bad luck with their call centers in India though, so many are realizing that it's not all gravy as some might like to project it to be.

My friend works for them and they are just opening two new offices with around 120 postitions each.........I dont think that would happen if they were not happy.


User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3966 times:

Quoting CalAir (Reply 6):
Well if they are anything like the call center agents ive experienced with Capital One and 3 mobile god help BMI!

Indeed, the majority of people that companies like those employ in India can barely speak English.
Perhaps this is just another way to get everyone to book through the web  Wink



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3951 times:

Quoting CalAir (Reply 6):
Well if they are anything like the call center agents ive experienced with Capital One and 3 mobile god help BMI!

It depends, I found Capital One's call centre to be atrocious (Citibank were not much better either) after they relocated to India. However Barclaycard must employ a different company as their Indian staff are polite, efficient and extremely well spoken.

It really does depend on the Indian company which does the work. Some seem less able to handle English than others. However if BMI are just doing accounts there then they are just following British Airways and the rest who have successfully moved back office transaction processing to Indian IT centres.


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6660 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3951 times:

Indeed, the majority of people that companies like those employ in India can barely speak English.

Personally,I find it easier to understand them than call centres in the north-east over here.


User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3107 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3834 times:

Quoting CalAir (Reply 6):
Well if they are anything like the call center agents ive experienced with Capital One and 3 mobile god help BMI! Different profession I know.

This is exactly the point that you guys miss...you're too hooked onto the voice based call centres....Kale Consultants is doing a lot of back office processing for a lot of airlines already and is a market leader in that sector...the work that BMI is outsourcing is accounting and ticket reconciliation,etc..type of work...will probably not involve much voice based support....and in this type of work, the accent or the English levels of the agents is not the prime criteria....

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 7):
Rumor has NW sending a great majority of their rez agent jobs to Singapore. Dell had bad luck with their call centers in India though, so many are realizing that it's not all gravy as some might like to project it to be.

As someone else on this thread has pointed out, and I myself know, Dell have actually opened MORE centres in India (the latest being in Chandigarh I think)...wonder why they're doing that if they are so unhappy....

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 10):
Indeed, the majority of people that companies like those employ in India can barely speak English.

Your lack of knowlegde of India is pitiful....most Indians educated in the English medium speak as well as or even better than people in Europe and N. America....


User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3794 times:

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 13):
Your lack of knowlegde of India is pitiful....most Indians educated in the English medium speak as well as or even better than people in Europe and N. America....

Try telling that to anyone in the UK has had to deal with the call centres. People cannot stand them! Try booking a train ticket and you will be routed to an Indian call centre - a nightmare as they have no local knowledge, and they are difficult to understand, and they struggle to understand us. They can cope with well known stations, but try asking for stations like 'Bare Lane' and 'Daisy Hill' and they are out of their depth.



No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3107 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3792 times:

Quoting Mhodgson (Reply 14):
They can cope with well known stations, but try asking for stations like 'Bare Lane' and 'Daisy Hill' and they are out of their depth.

That can be directly attributed to poor transfer of information by the British client...you can't blame the Indian agents for not being familiar with 'Bare Lane' and 'Daisy Hill'.... smile 


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7152 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3764 times:

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 13):
Your lack of knowlegde of India is pitiful....most Indians educated in the English medium speak as well as or even better than people in Europe and N. America

You may find that their level of english is good, but they are hopeless at understanding spoken Europan or North American english, and acting on their requirements. It took me 35 minutes to make a flight booking using the bmi call centre, as the nice, but useless staff didnt have a clue.

I moved my car insurance from Norwich Union as their new indian call centre is appallingly bad to deal with. Again, super friendly, but useless at solving my needs.

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 15):
That can be directly attributed to poor transfer of information by the British client...you can't blame the Indian agents for not being familiar with 'Bare Lane' and 'Daisy Hill'....

Dont blame the customer. The indian agents should be familiar with the locations.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineVSFLYER747400 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 133 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3757 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 16):
Dont blame the customer. The indian agents should be familiar with the locations.

Totally agree with you, all boils down to poor quality training. Those sitting in the call centers down there seem to know very little, number of times I have had to call BMI to ask a question that should get a straight forward answer and been left holding for ages while 'they go and find out'.  banghead 



Being on: (in no order) VS BA AA EK CX MH DL EI BD KL HV NW RC LH AF DA TG QF US FR LX AC SK AZ PG SQ UA PA
User currently offlineTKMCE From India, joined May 2002, 841 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

BA-WNS/SQ-ASDC/LH-RDM/LX(or rather SR)-Datamatics.

BMI to add to to a very long list - stale news!!!!
Why did they take so long to wake up ?- better late than never!

And Kale are old hands in the revenue accounting business. They have quite a few other airlines as well (I know QR is one).


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7152 posts, RR: 57
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3738 times:

Quoting HS748 (Reply 18):
Your comments reveal you as a downright racist.

Sorry, what an appalling thing to say.


Quoting HS748 (Reply 18):
Quoting Concentriq (Reply 2):
the primary driver for this is NOT "quality" or "high callibre", but "low cost".

This is accurate - Bmi are outsourcing to India to save money, not improve quality. Its got nothing to do with racism. Companies that outsource often fail to recieve the quality that is expected. The BD call centre is an excellent example.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19230 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3708 times:

I have never had any problem whatever understanding an Indian when communicating with them.

It is clear that the move was decided in order to help reduce its costs. However, the quality aspect must still be there or else it would be rather self-defeating and counter-productive. Accordingly, I am of the opinion that the quality will be equal to, or not much below, what would be offered in the UK - and at a cheaper rate.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7152 posts, RR: 57
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3684 times:

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 21):
I am of the opinion that the quality will be equal to, or not much below, what would be offered in the UK - and at a cheaper rate.

Why then are customer focused companies moving their help desks back to the UK and the US. Outsourcing of call centres and helpdesk often doesnt:

1. deliver the cost savings expected
2. deliver the quality expected

And often has the opposite effect - it drives customers and revenue away.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 21):
have never had any problem whatever understanding an Indian when communicating with them

Me neither - they understand me, but dont have a clue what to do with my request, as they are badly trained, and have no one to ask. Why- because the call centre is there to make money for them, and save money for the airline. Customer satisfaction suffers. Be it in India or Romania.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19230 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3665 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 22):
And often has the opposite effect

Because stupid fools get all concerned with the perception and have a silly 'I want to talk to a British person' mentality.

If the quality levels can't be assured and if the projected savings can't be achieved, then why would they bother? What is it - a lack of foresight? Poorly implemented? Crap training? Badly researched?



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3107 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3665 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 22):
Why then are customer focused companies moving their help desks back to the UK and the US.

Do you really think that's happening? A few companies here and there, changing their decision to outsource does not amount to "companies moving their hlep desks back to the ...." In any business, there are a few failures here and there.....you just have to go to India and see the long lines of European and American companies struggling to outsource their services to a local party, to understand what is really happening...don't hook onto those few cases and assume that the whole scenario is one of despair...most Western companies who have outsourced to India are QUITE happy with their decision.....

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 22):
customer focused companies

So, do you mean that IBM, Microsoft, Intel, GE, Bank of America, Citigroup, ABN Amro Bank, BA, etc....are not 'customer focussed???' Because all of them are laying great emphasis on their outsourcing to India.....


User currently offlineGman94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3643 times:

So when all our jobs are outsourced to India and the UK is unemployed who exactly is going to buy tickets on BMI flights. And with the jobs going to India the standard of living is gradually rising, so then what happens move again to where else these companies can get some cheaper labour?


British Airways - The Way To Fly
25 Aseem : dude!! you got it right this time. I recommend you read "The World is Flat" by Tom Friedman. rgds VT-ASJ
26 HAWK21M : I feel better training would def help.The future is in outsourcing. About the English Language I think the Accent would be the problem not the Educati
27 Post contains images Abrelosojos : = You're beginning to get it - countries evolve. India's challenge is how it does post outsourcing backend office work IN THE SERVICE sector. Most As
28 LH459 : Just so. Personally, I have no problems communicating with Indian english speakers, nor do they have problems understanding me. My father, on the oth
29 Gr8Circle : When you say 'customer' here, if you are referring to the British company that outsourced the work...well, they are completely responsible for transf
30 Tango-Bravo : Someone please explain... If customer service given by agents based in India and other overseas locations is so very satisfactory as some are claiming
31 Skymonster : Folks - all this "difficult to communicate" stuff is irrelevent in this case. BMI are moving some revenue accounting functions to India - many airline
32 Danny : You are very wrong here. Indeed professional accountants from India are very highly valued in this profession.
33 Cricket : Most of the outsourcing threads over here turn out to be a bashing fight between guys on one side (hello, hello) and the people other side whose count
34 BestWestern : I mean the end user (the traveller, not the company that is doing the outsourcing) - the customer wants the information - the agent cant give it to t
35 Abrelosojos : = Perhaps because they reserve their "best" customers for their most experienced reps which just because of simple historical time just happened to b
36 Cricket : One rteason their 'best' customers garner enough business to pay for a US based agent. Each call made to a call centre costs money - why should an ai
37 BestWestern : I fully embrace globalisation. However, as with everything, its all about execution. Companies have to do it right, and not expect huge cost reductio
38 TKMCE : Summed it up well. Plus the fact that training is not given the importance it deserves. I am from the south of India, and have problems even with Ind
39 Cricket : Proper Training - as you mentioned is the key. Of course, it doesn't help when the person on the other end of the line calls you a 'Brown *********',
40 BestWestern : India isn't the only market where part of its population is badly educated. These people think the same about Polish people also. Racism like this de
41 Post contains links Aseem : i couldn't resist posting this news item Dell to open fourth call centre in India: CEO Dell Inc, the world's largest computer maker, will set up its f
42 Matt D : 1. I concur. Offshoring is very simple. It costs about 1 tenth in salaries. That's the beginning of it. That's the end of it. It has nothing to do wha
43 Gr8Circle : You do this without even knowing if the American agent will serve you better or the non-American one will....wonder why you do that..?
44 Malaysia : As an Internal Auditor, all I know is the airlines will never outsource Internal Audit, cause thats part of internal control and its within the Airlin
45 Orion737 : The reason BMI have to take such measures is because they tried to be a low cost carrier. If they had continued their proud tradition of offering a qu
46 Concentriq : This maybe so. While i do not know personally about the state of accounting practices in India (only from words of my acquaintances and some coworker
47 7LBAC111 : No - they'd be bankrupt. End of. BMI are struggling in almost all areas of their business, and this is yet another kneejerk reaction sure to annoy mo
48 Post contains images BestWestern : A prime example of bad training was a call I had with the BD call centre in Inda this morning. I called to telephone check-in, and the really nice lad
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
QF Moving 300 IT Jobs To India posted Mon Oct 2 2006 10:46:21 by 777ER
BMI Flies To India posted Wed May 18 2005 02:38:32 by Aseem
Bmi Plans Long-haul Flights To India posted Sat May 22 2004 02:57:16 by Northernlights
600 Jobs To Go At BMI. posted Wed Oct 3 2001 14:39:36 by Hkgspotter1
QF Outsources IT Work To India posted Thu Nov 9 2006 19:10:35 by Gr8Circle
CRJs, Q400s To India posted Thu Nov 9 2006 09:58:56 by Flying-Tiger
Tiger Airways Expands To India/Sri Lanka: 6 Cities posted Thu Nov 2 2006 18:20:39 by Jimyvr
RAK Airways - 737s, 757s To India & Iran posted Mon Sep 25 2006 11:41:14 by Scbriml
Travelling To India With Malaysia Airlines posted Sun Aug 6 2006 10:51:27 by Jumbo747
Low Cost International Service From/To India posted Mon Jul 17 2006 02:55:37 by Ammunition