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US Expansion To Current HP Stations  
User currently offlineLGAtoIND From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 490 posts, RR: 1
Posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 6267 times:

I was wondering If US will be expanding to current HP stations that US does not fly into? Since there will be no costs in starting up a new station for 1 or 2 daily flights, these are some HP airports I could see US flying into from PHL/CLT:

JFK, SLC, PDX, OAK, SMF, ONT, YVR, SJC, OKC

Any thoughts?

63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTropicBird From United States of America, joined May 2005, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6248 times:

US currently flies into most if not all of those stations you cite via PHX or LAS. For all practical purposes, there is no difference between HP and the old US where it concerns flights and markets i.e., they will not overlap service because they are now "one" carrier as far as markets go.

User currently offlineLGAtoIND From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 490 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6166 times:

I realize that US/HP serves all of those airports now, but I was wondering if nonstops to PHL/CLT will be added.

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6126 times:

As for JFK, I would think it could be shuttered. US is already in EWR and LGA, and has a token appearance to PHL in ISP.

OKC is the furthest east, and still pretty much out of the 50-seater range from PHL... so it would either be 70 seaters, or just to CLT.

As for the others... PDX and SLC I could see getting an A319 to PHL/CLT possibly... the others I doubt have the unspoken for O&D to go into cold with a mainline jet, and beyond any RJ's reach.


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3377 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6111 times:

The point of the Merger was that US would have access to these HP destinations without serving them direct from PHL or CLT. while maybe PHL-PDX or a few others might eventually come along, i doubt we'll ever see PHL/CLT-YVR, SJC, ONT, SMF, OAK

User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6063 times:

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 4):
he point of the Merger was that US would have access to these HP destinations without serving them direct from PHL or CLT. while maybe PHL-PDX or a few others might eventually come along, i doubt we'll ever see PHL/CLT-YVR, SJC, ONT, SMF, OAK

Well, if the point was to open these stations without connecting the dots, its really not going to do much good.. Who wants to double-connect to get somewhere when all the competitors offer better routings? For a market like OKC, the merger does absolutely no good. Who is going to fly OKC-PHX-CLT-(insert east coast airport here)? Add three ERJ's daily to CLT though, and you have a real compeitor at OKC, with convenient nationwide reach.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6040 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 5):
Who is going to fly OKC-PHX-CLT-(insert east coast airport here)?

Especially when they can go OKC-EWR-___


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3377 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6003 times:

I never listed OKC as not going to receive at least CLT service. But when you can now fly PHL-PHX-OAK, RDU-PHX-OAK, BDL-PHX-OAK, PIT-PHX-OAK, CLE-PHX-OAK, BOS-PHX-OAK(yes i know, pointless with B6 but still), IND-PHX-OAK, MCO-PHX-OAK, TPA-PHX-OAK, BWI-PHX-OAK, DCA-PHX-OAK. With all those routes now possible, a PHL-OAK flight isn't that necessary.

User currently offlineIowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4363 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5935 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Maybe we will see PHL or CLT-OMA?


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4036 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5918 times:

PDX-PHL has been rumored for a while now

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5868 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 3):
As for JFK, I would think it could be shuttered.

No it can't. Business travellers from PHX and LAS want nonstops... and there are more than a few.

N


User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2426 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5839 times:
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IIRC, wasn't USAirways going to begin PIT-PDX nonstops in June 2002? I think they stated this in Summer 2001, so obviously 9/11 changed these plans.
I seem to remember something about this.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineSonOfACaptain From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1747 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5794 times:

Quoting MtnWest1979 (Reply 11):
wasn't USAirways going to begin PIT-PDX nonstops in June 2002?

Yes they were, along with service to PHL. US announced a few cities that summer that never happened because of 9/11.

-SOAC



Non Illegitimi Carborundum
User currently offlineJetboy319 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5758 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 9):
PDX-PHL has been rumored for a while now

I think 2 PDX-PHL roundtrips and 1or2 PDX-CLT roundtrips would be a nice compliment to the current offerings of HP/US in PDX.


User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5735 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 3):
As for JFK, I would think it could be shuttered.

Not if you want connecting traffic to/from Star Alliance partners. Probably will never be a big O&D station, but the int'l connections might make it worthwhile to stay.


User currently offlineAzul320 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 281 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5715 times:

US and HP must to expand in eachothers stations and figure a way to make it work profitably. Or else I don't know how else the airline will function properly. 200 daily US flights and 3 HP, for example, something must be done. The barbell needs to stand horizontal not one end on the ground and another at an 85 degree angle.


Excuse me, while I kiss the sky
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5651 times:

Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 7):
I never listed OKC as not going to receive at least CLT service. But when you can now fly PHL-PHX-OAK, RDU-PHX-OAK, BDL-PHX-OAK, PIT-PHX-OAK, CLE-PHX-OAK, BOS-PHX-OAK(yes i know, pointless with B6 but still), IND-PHX-OAK, MCO-PHX-OAK, TPA-PHX-OAK, BWI-PHX-OAK, DCA-PHX-OAK. With all those routes now possible, a PHL-OAK flight isn't that necessary.

But the point still is, the merger is pointless for these cities, because these are all routes that could have been flown pre-merger. The cities the merger really has a chance to help are cities in middle america. In order for that to happen, some dots need to be connected.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineCslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 838 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5606 times:

the only routes I think that makes sense are:
- YVR-PHL (in co-operation with AC; connecting two Star Alliance Hubs)
- SMF-PHL
- OKC-PHL
- SLC-PHL
- PDX-PHL
- ONT-PHL



--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlineEjmmsu From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5581 times:

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 17):
he only routes I think that makes sense are:
- YVR-PHL (in co-operation with AC; connecting two Star Alliance Hubs)
- SMF-PHL
- OKC-PHL
- SLC-PHL
- PDX-PHL
- ONT-PHL

Definately with OKC, and to a slightly lesser extent with the other west-coast destinations, I would imagine that they would add CLT first, or at least in tandem with PHL. CLT offers more complete and sensibly located connections.



"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3377 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5525 times:

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 16):
But the point still is, the merger is pointless for these cities, because these are all routes that could have been flown pre-merger. The cities the merger really has a chance to help are cities in middle america. In order for that to happen, some dots need to be connected.

I don't understand how these routes could have flown pre-merger when US didn't even serve OAK, SMF, ONT, SJC, SLC. Also out of these cities that were listed in the original post and what i based my post off of, which ones are in middle america? None

OKC is likely to receive CLT service


User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3411 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5465 times:

There are a handful of markets that are large enough to incorporate into the network better. That is, not having to double connect. (This has been said before):

to be tied into the east network (PHL/CLT)

PDX
SJC
SMF
SLC
AUS
SAT

to be ties into the west network (PHX/LAS)

PVD
BUF
JAX
ORF
BNA
ROC

having said that and before someone jumps down my throat, I know there aren't enough airplanes in the system to do this right now - but there are redundencies that exist (PIT/PHL - PHX/LAS) that could provide a few flights to these new routes.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5410 times:

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 20):
having said that and before someone jumps down my throat, I know there aren't enough airplanes in the system to do this right now - but there are redundencies that exist (PIT/PHL - PHX/LAS) that could provide a few flights to these new routes.

So you're going to take more connecting traffic from PIT, and into PHL... and then add a few transcons into PHL too? Yeah... have fun with that every non-VFR, non light-wind day.


User currently offlineJFKLGANYC From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3376 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5331 times:

Actually, the JFK flights to PHX and LAS do fairly well for HP. Remember, they couldn't serve PHX and LAS from LGA due to permimeter rules. They used to serve the CMH hub from LGA. But when that closed, so did LGA. In order to serve the western hubs from NYC, they would have to keep JFK open.

Also, keep in mind that this won't be like every other US merger/acquisition. US has a bad history of taking over airlines and shuttering hubs and station. But in this case, HP is doing the taking over. This is now an Arizona-based airline with an HP way of thinking.

PHX and LAS will be the last places that things get cut. I'd sleep with one eye open in PIT and CLT though.  Smile

PJ


User currently offlinePVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3411 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5314 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 21):
So you're going to take more connecting traffic from PIT, and into PHL... and then add a few transcons into PHL too? Yeah... have fun with that every non-VFR, non light-wind day.

No there are duplicate PHL/PIT-PHX/LAS flights on HP/US. This would overfly he need to stop in PHL to get out west reducing the need to have 8 PVD-PHL flights!


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5276 times:

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 23):
No there are duplicate PHL/PIT-PHX/LAS flights on HP/US. This would overfly he need to stop in PHL to get out west reducing the need to have 8 PVD-PHL flights!

Those are hub-to-hub runs though, of course there will be duplicates (in the case of PIT I'm pretty sure it's 2x, morning and evening) but getting rid of a PIT-LAS/PHX or even PHL-LAS/PHX is just like putting business on a big silver platter and delivering it to Gary Kelly.


25 Ejmmsu : They could have easily been flown pre-merger, on HP
26 HPRamper : PHL makes just as much sense as CLT. The main point would be for PDX originating pax to make the PHL Europe departures...badly needed. It would be a
27 PVD757 : there's been a very well establish trend of them doing this already... ...anyway, you're right - the route system is perfect the way it is now and th
28 Tornado82 : Not from OKC. US currently has a plethora of 50-seat RJ capacity (good or bad, they've got it, and it ain't going anywhere when you're partially owne
29 Usairways85 : Well now they are available to US fliers. Only reason i believe OKC will only see CLT at first is the lack of aircraft. My guess is that it won't be
30 Danny : With Southwest already operating BUF-PHX and BUF-LAS I don't think US will enter this market.
31 Usairways85 : The 8 PHL-PVD flts are there because of the increase demand due to WN's entry in the market. However, i don't see the point in reducing the number of
32 Post contains images HPRamper : Because if WN is somewhere, everyone else should stay away huh? I thought this industry lived on competition
33 PVD757 : thats what I'm trying to say. But because there is such a limited supply of aircraft, US/HP have to be creative to foster more east-west network syne
34 Ejmmsu : This is not the point. There really aren't any US frequent fliers on the west coast. There are, however, plenty of HP fliers out west. These were all
35 PVD757 : I'm glad someone else sees what I'm trying to talk about... In most mergers, the 2 airlines get together, trim the excess and re-deploy assets to cre
36 Usairways85 : So i guess there aren't any US fliers out East that wanted to get to these destinations but could not on US so they opted for other carriers includin
37 SHUPirate1 : There are exactly 38 stations that had both US Airways (or US Airways Express) and America West (or America West Express), namely Atlanta, Baltimore,
38 Whataboutme : I would love to see a CLT-RNO non-stop.
39 Post contains images Jetboy319 : While I see your point, and believe both PVD and MHT will eventually see the routes, I doubt that US/HP will be introducing MHT/PVD-PHX/LAS anytime s
40 Iowaman : Doubt it will happen, it's a long route that would take up an aircraft a good chunk of the day and notoriously low yield.
41 Gift4tbone : In general, I think US' expansion into the west (from the east) is more important. Becuase US was based on the east, and serves almost every east coas
42 Post contains images CentPIT : What are you thinking, saying a thing like that? In my opinion they need to add some of those smaller Midwest cities back to the PIT network. Everyon
43 Tornado82 : Exactly, and if you're going.. oh I don't know... something random like PVD-IND, PIT is alot more on the way than PHL is, but yet there are 8x PVD-PH
44 Usairways85 : I know you just picked PVD randomlly but since WN entered the market the O&D PHL-PVD has gone up like 200% or some outrageous number. But you are rig
45 Tornado82 : That's well and good, and I know blah blah Southwest effect, the same effect that causes traffic LOSSES at neighboring airports.. in the case of PHL
46 CentPIT : Why don't people that can connect through PIT do it then because we still have PVD service. Are they connecting in that mess to get more mileage? Doe
47 Tornado82 : If it's anything like ABE... they (typically) make it significantly cheaper to connect through PHL, even if you are going to a destination like IND w
48 CentPIT : Well, it seems as if the Saabs are being used on fewer routes than in the past so maybe they are going to get rid of a few? Just an observation.
49 Tornado82 : IMO, the problem isn't so much with the plane as the operator, too. I'd place Colgan well below Airliners.net's favorite whipping boy, Mesa. US has t
50 HPRamper : Getting the Q400 would be the best move possible by US. It would be perfect for those inter-hub and focus city shuttles, freeing up larger mainline ai
51 LACA773 : It would be nice to see SJC get some new service! I think SJC-PHL-SJC might do quite well since SJC is somewhat underserved considering the population
52 Tornado82 : Some of those routes might need a bit more capacity than the Q400 affords... but here are my recommendations. PHL-ABE/MDT/SCE/AVP/BWI/ALB PIT-CMH/DAY
53 Post contains images Vega : I BEG YOUR PARDON!
54 Vega : A great idea !!! Right now the best I can do is the one CO NS to EWR and then the train, or suffer through the 70+ mile 101 drive up to SFO. I think
55 Ejmmsu : Although there are always exceptions, the choice to be a US loyalist living on the west coast, pre-merger, is somewhat curious, due to the very limit
56 HPRamper : That is true, unless your only destinations are on the east coast.
57 Jmc1975 : Especially AUS, SAT and to a lesser degree PDX and SLC. Of those, BNA is probably the only feasible one...also don't forget CVG. All the others are c
58 Stirling : A lot of what I'm reading here seems to suggest that if every point on the network is not connected by at least a single connection, then the merger i
59 ScottB : Well, there have been a lot of good things (and not-so good things) said in this thread, but for the near future (i.e. next couple of years), the bigg
60 MD90fan : Does WN fly ONT-PHL? If not, when is it coming?
61 Post contains images CentPIT : No, WN does not serve ONT-PHL. Right now it isn't coming.
62 Post contains images Iowaman : Exactly, no reason to. Passengers each way were actually up over 1000% in 3Q04. Now I see why you have a grudge against WN. It seems like on a lot of
63 Tornado82 : Wrong, I disliked 'em when I lived in Chicagoland even... after seeing how those cattle have to board their planes at Midway.
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