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Canadian Port-of-Entry Facilities @ U.S. Airports?  
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4920 times:

Just like the U.S. has Port-of-Entry facilities in several major Canadian Airports, Would it be possible to have Canadian Port-of-Entry facilities in a couple of U.S. major aiports someday?
Which U.S. Airports should have those?
Which ones actually have room for such facilities?


I don't work for COPA Airlines!
32 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDYK From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 407 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4905 times:

There is no way the U.S. government would allow a foreign country to have such facilities on their soil???


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User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4859 times:

I find that hard to believe. I cant imagine we signed an agreement letting them put people on our soil, and didnt make provisions to have the same in the US. The fact is, it is expensive, and unless the carriers/public want to pay for it then it wont happen.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5309 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4824 times:

It does make one wonder how the U.S. gets pre-clearance facilities in Canada, as well as other countries, but the U.S. has never allowed Canada or other countries to set up pre-clearance facilities here.

It would be difficult, because at any given airport, flights to Canada often leave from various locations. At ORD, UA flights leave from Terminal 1, AC flights leave from Terminal 2, and AA flights leave from Terminal 3.

At ATL, IIRC, AC is on Concourse D, while DL flights could depart from T, A, B, or C.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26136 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4798 times:

Its primarily a cost and logistics issue for the other government, then a reluctance from a bilateral point of view by the US not being willing to host such foreign government clearance facilities.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4780 times:

One would think that these facilities would be reciprocally negotiated, however AFAIK, Canada and Ireland are the only two countries which have secured US preclearance.


Above and Beyond
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4764 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 5):
One would think that these facilities would be reciprocally negotiated,

But if they are reciprocally negotiated, the carriers lose the operational advantage of being able to operate from domestic terminals in the States. What's the point then?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4732 times:

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 3):
It would be difficult, because at any given airport, flights to Canada often leave from various locations. At ORD, UA flights leave from Terminal 1, AC flights leave from Terminal 2, and AA flights leave from Terminal 3.
At ATL, IIRC, AC is on Concourse D, while DL flights could depart from T, A, B, or C.

Well at any Canadian airport with U.S. Preclearance, all U.S. bound flights (except CX YVR-JFK) depart from the same area.
If an airport like ATL, IAH, ORD, DFW, EWR was to have plenty of flights to Canada, It would be logical to concentrate all of the departures on a Canadian Preclearance area..

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 5):
One would think that these facilities would be reciprocally negotiated, however AFAIK, Canada and Ireland are the only two countries which have secured US preclearance.

Aslo AUA, NAS, FPO and BDA (maybe another airport too) have U.S. preclearance.
I really don't see the need Eire or AUA would have of a national preclearance at an U.S. Airport, however due to the traffic between several U.S. Airports and Canada, few U.S. airports actually should have them.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5309 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4654 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 7):
If an airport like ATL, IAH, ORD, DFW, EWR was to have plenty of flights to Canada, It would be logical to concentrate all of the departures on a Canadian Preclearance area..

I don't think that U.S. carriers want to do this. At ORD, UA and AA flights from Europe and Asia, then the planes are towed to Terminals 1 and 3, respectively. Planes destined for Canada would have to be towed from the respective terminals to the preclearance concourse.

This would also add to the connection times, if a person going to Canada had to change planes at ORD, or at any other hub airport.


User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 829 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4629 times:

The percentage of total traffic that are transborder flights at various Canadian airports which originate at those airports is much higher than the percentage at US airports. Preclearance at a connection is less desirable than a clearance at the destination There just isn't enough traffic originating at a specific US airport bound to destinations in Canada that would require a preclearance going to Canada. I doubt the US would object to such preclearance but without US airports or US airlines wanting preclearance it isn't going to happen.

User currently offlineCharlipr From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2005, 340 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4538 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 5):
One would think that these facilities would be reciprocally negotiated, however AFAIK, Canada and Ireland are the only two countries which have secured US preclearance.

No they are not. AUA, BDA, NAS, FPO are airports were you clear U.S. Customs before returning to the states.


User currently offlineGoaliemn From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 463 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4481 times:

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 9):
There just isn't enough traffic originating at a specific US airport bound to destinations in Canada that would require a preclearance going to Canada.

I think thats the biggest factor.

Plus, even if a flight is pre-cleared, there still has to be customs at the destination airport, at least thats how it is here in the US. You have to have customs available, just in case. The US Preclearance takes some of the load off the US customs at the US airport where it lands. Air Canada, I believe, ran into that when they wanted to fly to San Diego. There was no customs there, so they ended up landing somewhere else with customs, then continuing onto San Diego.

As far as how it all works, do a google search for the preclearance act of canada. Its an interesting read on how it all works.


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4455 times:

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 9):
There just isn't enough traffic originating at a specific US airport bound to destinations in Canada that would require a preclearance going to Canada.

Out of curiosity, Which would be the U.S. Airport with the most fights to Canada (by both U.S. and Canadian airlines) nowadays?

Quoting Goaliemn (Reply 11):
Plus, even if a flight is pre-cleared, there still has to be customs at the destination airport, at least thats how it is here in the US. You have to have customs available, just in case. The US Preclearance takes some of the load off the US customs at the US airport where it lands.

I flew YVR-LAX and both inmigration and Customs were @ YVR U.S. Port of Entry facility. What I hear is that only passengers pre-cleared on Eire (DUB/SNN) have to go thru U.S. customs upon arrival in the U.S.A. as there's no U.S. Customs overthere, from all other pre-cleared passengers arrive domestic.

Quoting Goaliemn (Reply 11):
Air Canada, I believe, ran into that when they wanted to fly to San Diego. There was no customs there, so they ended up landing somewhere else with customs, then continuing onto San Diego.

I understand SAN is a U.S. Port of Entry airport, which means that the do have Inmigration and Customs facility (Mexican airlines fly/flew into SAN), so a preclared flight from Canada shouldn't have any problems there. I did hear about AS or it was AC which wanted to fly YVR-BUR or YVR-SNA and had to cancel it because at last minute they found out that the airport isn't a Port of Entry (has no customs).

It's funny how this U.S. Pre-clearance works..
CO is to fly LGA-AUA-LGA Sundays because AUA has U.S. Port of Entry facility and LGA is a Port of Entry Airport, then imagine someone someday could fly DUB/SNN - LGA Sundays just because this too!



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4432 times:

Quoting Goaliemn (Reply 11):
Air Canada, I believe, ran into that when they wanted to fly to San Diego.

2travel2know is right. You are thinking of AS not AC, and SNA not SAN.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineEnviroTO From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 829 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4428 times:

Quoting Goaliemn (Reply 11):

Plus, even if a flight is pre-cleared, there still has to be customs at the destination airport, at least thats how it is here in the US.

No. Most flights from Canada to the US arrive and depart from domestic gates in the US because US Customs and Immigration is located at Canadian airports.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 12):

Out of curiosity, Which would be the U.S. Airport with the most fights to Canada (by both U.S. and Canadian airlines) nowadays?

I'm not sure but it is probably Chicago. Back when CP was still around the flights were near hourly thoughout the day between them and AA on both routes and that didn't include UA or AC which also ran at similar frequencies. It is probably Chicago because more cities are served in Canada from there whereas only YYZ and YUL get service from LGA which I would guess is the second largest. In LGA there would be greater O&D to Canada whereas ORD would have more connections making LGA probably the most suited for pre-clearance to Canada.


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4365 times:

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 14):
I'm not sure but it is probably Chicago. Back when CP was still around the flights were near hourly thoughout the day between them and AA on both routes and that didn't include UA or AC which also ran at similar frequencies. It is probably Chicago because more cities are served in Canada from there whereas only YYZ and YUL get service from LGA which I would guess is the second largest.

It would make sense if it's ORD, it's in the middle of the U.S.A and can easily have flights to western (YVR/YYC/YEG), middle (YWG) and eastern (YYZ/YOW/YUL) Canada.
I'm not sure if MSP, ATL or EWR are big on Canadian flights too.

[Edited 2006-01-27 22:18:42]


I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineSHUPirate1 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3670 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4329 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 5):
One would think that these facilities would be reciprocally negotiated, however AFAIK, Canada and Ireland are the only two countries which have secured US preclearance.



Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 7):
Aslo AUA, NAS, FPO and BDA (maybe another airport too) have U.S. preclearance.
I really don't see the need Eire or AUA would have of a national preclearance at an U.S. Airport, however due to the traffic between several U.S. Airports and Canada, few U.S. airports actually should have them.

STT actually also has preclearance facilities, which is as bizarre as it sounds, because the US Virgin Islands are part of the United States!

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 12):
It's funny how this U.S. Pre-clearance works..
CO is to fly LGA-AUA-LGA Sundays because AUA has U.S. Port of Entry facility and LGA is a Port of Entry Airport, then imagine someone someday could fly DUB/SNN - LGA Sundays just because this too!

Don't the Irish airports only have one or the other (I forget which one though)?



Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
User currently offlineSergeant655 From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4314 times:

Quoting Goaliemn (Reply 11):
CO is to fly LGA-AUA-LGA Sundays because AUA has U.S. Port of Entry facility and LGA is a Port of Entry Airport, then imagine someone someday could fly DUB/SNN - LGA Sundays just because this too!

LGA has a small customs facility ment for biz jets. AT DUB/SNN you only clear immigration there. You clear customs on arrival in the states. A full 757 might overload customs interms of long lines


User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4248 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 16):
STT actually also has preclearance facilities, which is as bizarre as it sounds, because the US Virgin Islands are part of the United States!

I understand that the U.S. Virgin Island do follow U.S. Inmigration policies but when it comes to Customs, they've their own, since they're a Duty Free Zone.

Quoting Sergeant655 (Reply 17):
AT DUB/SNN you only clear immigration there. You clear customs on arrival in the states.

Any reason why AUA, NAS, BDA and several Canadian Airports have U.S. Customs but Eire DUB/SNN don't?



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineJetsetsteve From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4235 times:

I know for one thing alot of U.S airports have poor Facilities for our own Customs and Immagation. Imagine having to build room for another country to clear flight here.. It would be a mess.

User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 4226 times:

Quoting Jetsetsteve (Reply 19):
I know for one thing alot of U.S airports have poor Facilities for our own Customs and Immagation. Imagine having to build room for another country to clear flight here.. It would be a mess.

If it's convenient for "another country" (= Canada) and the airlines flying there to have a Port of Entry @ a U.S. Airport, and there's room on that airport, and Canada and the Airlines interested pay for that facility; What's wrong with that.
Who pays for the building and administration of those U.S. Port of Entry facilities overseas?



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineCslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 843 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4192 times:

I think the theory about having US Immigration only preclearance at SNN/DUB is because the airlines like the ability to sell Duty-Free goods inflight. With US Customs preclearance (like in Canada) airlines are prevented from offering Duty-Free sales inflight.


--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlineSflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4159 times:

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
I understand that the U.S. Virgin Island do follow U.S. Inmigration policies but when it comes to Customs, they've their own, since they're a Duty Free Zone.

True, from what I understand, territories enforce their own immigration policies all modelled on US law. From what I understand a traveller travelling to PR is supposed to have proof of citizenship on them, though PR immigration is never (rarely - I guess never say never) enforced on US bound and arriving flights, only on international flights. Apparently STT enforces the immigration checks internationally but randomly enforces them to/from the US. BTW, interestingly, I flew STT-SJU and was forced thru customs checks at SJU. Apparently SJU does not consider STT part of the US but rather it is considered an international arrival! I guess it is a matter of agreements - like Portugal being an EU Schengen country (no immigration customs) but the Madeira Islands ( a territory of Portugal in the Atlantic Ocean) needing to pass customs to enter another EU country. Same goes for the UK. No customs or immigration between EU countries except for travel between EU-UK.

Anyone else have that experience?

Adrian


User currently offlineCory6188 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2692 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4117 times:

Here's the deal about STT - I've been through that airport enough times to finally understand the system. It is a US Territory, not a Commonwealth like Puerto Rico. As far as immigration goes, they could care less who from the US comes and goes to the Virgin Islands. When you land at STT, you can just leave the airport - no FIS facilities for arriving pax. However, they do have restrictions on the amount of stuff you can purchase in the Virgin Islands without paying duty on it, and it is for this reason that you preclear customs, not immigration, when you leave STT. There are no restrictions on what you can bring to and from Puerto Rico, so going there is like being on a domestic flight.

User currently offlineANCFlyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4114 times:

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 16):
STT actually also has preclearance facilities, which is as bizarre as it sounds, because the US Virgin Islands are part of the United States!

STX as well.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
I understand that the U.S. Virgin Island do follow U.S. Inmigration policies but when it comes to Customs, they've their own, since they're a Duty Free Zone.

They have US Customs, not something like GUM, where the Guam Government has their own Customs and Immigration along with US Customs and Immigration.


25 Post contains images Goaliemn : I was incorrect on that one. There are quite afew canuck flights out of MSP, but, like others have pointed out, I don't know how many originate from
26 YOW : ORD's gotta be the city with the most flights per day to/from Canada with ORD to: YYZ ~ 20x/day YUL ~ 12x/day YOW 8x/day YWG 4x/day YYC ~6x/day YVR ~
27 TOLtommy : I take it you are aware of such a request being made and denied? Care to share the details? You were speaking specifically to flights from Ireland. T
28 TransIsland : As somebody already pointed out, some Bahamian airports have preclearance, too. Many years ago, London had it... no idea if they still do. (Don't even
29 2travel2know : Are 60 daily departures to Canada worth having a Canadian Port-of-Entry @ ORD? If that kind of traffic is worth it, Where in ORD is there room for su
30 N1120A : Actually, you are wrong there. YYZ has preclearence in both T2 and T3 (probably T1 as well). It was SNA, not SAN and it was AS that launched a YVR-SN
31 HZ747300 : When I lived in NY I traveled to Canada many times mostly for work, and I think that Canada actually comes out the winner in this one even without rec
32 ScottB : Perhaps, but it seems that there's no one who's interested in Canadian preclearance at a U.S. airport. In the case of ORD, for example, it would make
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