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Tired Transatlantic 767s  
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 12469 times:

As good a workhorse the 767 has been on transatlantic routes, many are begining to look very worn and tired. Particularly those old Air Canada 762s and Delta 763s.

Delta seem determined to expand their transatlantic routes to Europe but all they have available is those 763s which are getting a bit long in the tooth. If Delta is serious about further expansion in Europe, why dont they get a few more 777s for busy routes or even bring back some MD11s (please, proper long haul jets) maybe even order some 787s for future years. Whatever, their present 763 fleet is inadequate for their expansion plans, in my opinion.

Contrast some of the older 767s with those gorgeous 762s of CO which are all new and clean. I would love to see Delta maybe order some new build 762s as CO did. They would be good for thinner European launch routes too.

76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3762 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 12436 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
Delta seem determined to expand their transatlantic routes to Europe but all they have available is those 763s which are getting a bit long in the tooth. If Delta is serious about further expansion in Europe, why dont they get a few more 777s for busy routes or even bring back some MD11s (please, proper long haul jets) maybe even order some 787s for future years. Whatever, their present 763 fleet is inadequate for their expansion plans, in my opinion.

The problem is that DL does not have any money, so the 767 is their only option for long haul expansion  Smile


Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
Whatever, their present 763 fleet is inadequate for their expansion plans, in my opinion.

I disagree, the 763 seems to be perfect for expansion projects such as JFK-MAN and JFK-TXL  Smile

DL is choosing to bring the 764's into transatlantic operation, personaly a plan long overdue  Smile

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
Contrast some of the older 767s with those gorgeous 762s of CO which are all new and clean. I would love to see Delta maybe order some new build 762s as CO did. They would be good for thinner European launch routes too.

DL are getting rid of their 767-200's, plus DL don't have the money for new 767's. If they did I think they would choose the 787 over the 767!

At the end of the day, the 767's are doing the job fine... Don't fix it if it aint broke  Wink

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineDL787932ER From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 12436 times:

You may have noticed that DL is not exactly flush with cash these days. They've had to defer the remainder of their 777 order. On the other hand, ther 764s being converted to international are only a couple years old, and it's been said that people should expect a new long-haul order when DL announces its exit from bankruptcy - some combination of 787 and 772LR.

Until then, I think that if the update of BizE is done properly, there's nothing wrong with the 763ER. They're not exactly ancient.



F L Y D E L T A J E T S
User currently offlineRdwootty From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 901 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 12412 times:

Lucky delta passengers you have 2 aisles!!
CO passengers have one
So which would you prefer to fly Transatlantic on


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 12389 times:

The 764 moving to transatlantic routes is a good option, yes. They are younger and cleaner than DLs 763s for sure!

On the one hand though we hear DL is desperatley short of money and then they employ some top designer to create a new 'high fashion' crew uniform.

Are Air Canada still using the 762s on transatlantic? they must be coming up to 25 years old!


User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 12389 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
As good a workhorse the 767 has been on transatlantic routes, many are begining to look very worn and tired. Particularly those old Air Canada 762s and Delta 763s.

Hang in there!! For the handful of AC 762's that will remain, complete interior refurbishments begin in approximately 2 months, complete with AVOD.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineNonRevKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 12389 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
If Delta is serious about further expansion in Europe, why dont they get a few more 777s for busy routes or even bring back some MD11s (please, proper long haul jets)

Hahah, you're funny!

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
Whatever, their present 763 fleet is inadequate for their expansion plans, in my opinion.

Well, your opinion would be wrong.

The 764's aren't good enuff for you?

Quoting Orion737 (Reply 4):
On the one hand though we hear DL is desperatley short of money and then they employ some top designer to create a new 'high fashion' crew uniform.

UGH! Christ almighty, when are some of you going to get it thru you're heads! The money was paid to the designer YEARS ago, FA's pay for their own uniforms, and this doesn't cost much more when you have to re supply the uniforms anyway!

You people whine about Delta's "inferior" product, then whine when they try to improve it! You have absolutely no clue how the industry works!


B

[Edited 2006-01-28 23:22:32]

User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 12355 times:

Look at CO. They prefer the 767 to the 777 for most European routes. The 767 is much lighter than the 777 and burns much less fuel. They are also cheaper in ownership costs.

Maybe the A332 is better than a B763, but it's also more expensive. The 777 is in a another size class entirely, with yet higher costs.


User currently offlineCRFLY From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2004, 197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12293 times:

As B742 said "The problem is that DL does not have any money, so the 767 is their only option for long haul expansion" and now they have horrendous uniforms starting May 1st... I prefer a worn out 763 with 10 ladies dressed in orange than 14 on a 777 due to "visual contamination:, especially in those Business Elite Cabins: Blue seats, grey and blue walls, orange uniforms...

On the other hand, the US carriers' perfect workhorses are the 762, not even the 763, as there is not much of a demand from the US to smaller cities in Europe... That's why CO is making tons of money, flying the 757 to smaller cities, 762 to medium cities and a combination of 764 and 777 to the most important European Hubs, something that I consider "The Prefect Fleet Mix for the European Routes..." but they were smart to see this and reopen the assembly line for the 762 years ago with a lot of success...

Lets see how airlines are going to do with the new A350 and B787, those planes might help the supply and demand problem to smaller european cities and other smaller cities in Asia...



With Age comes Wisdom...
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12274 times:

Im popping over the pond with a Valium for my friend NonRevKing. Think of your blood pressure!

User currently offlineJlbmedia From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 621 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12274 times:
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I think USAIRWAYS uses some of the older 762's on many PHL-European routes. They are painting the exterior, but so far no word on the inside.


JLB54061
User currently offlineAtmx2000 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4576 posts, RR: 38
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12251 times:

Quoting CRFLY (Reply 8):
Lets see how airlines are going to do with the new A350 and B787, those planes might help the supply and demand problem to smaller european cities and other smaller cities in Asia...

Those aircraft are larger than the 762. The A350 isn't even in the 763 class.



ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12251 times:
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Quoting NonRevKing (Reply 6):
FA's pay for their own uniforms

are you serious ???



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineRedDragon From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 1135 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12220 times:

Quoting CRFLY (Reply 8):
[CO] were smart to see this and reopen the assembly line for the 762 years ago with a lot of success...

There was hardly any re-opening to do, given that all 767s are built effectively interchangeably on one production line...

*bites tongue re. Valium comment*


User currently offlineGofly From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 1727 posts, RR: 39
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12207 times:
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Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
Whatever, their present 763 fleet is inadequate for their expansion plans, in my opinion.

Evidence?

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
They would be good for thinner European launch routes too.

Evidence?

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
Delta seem determined to expand their transatlantic routes to Europe but all they have available is those 763s which are getting a bit long in the tooth

Orion, as mentioned above, they don't have anything else!

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
or even bring back some MD11s (please, proper long haul jets)

There is a reason that they retired their MD11s, look it up. It is not remotely feasible for them to bring them back.

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
why dont they get a few more 777s



Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
maybe even order some 787s for future years

Money, money, money. They don't have any.  Wink

Orion, did you apply any thought to your post?



Living the high life on my ex-Airliners.net Moderator pension...
User currently offlineAa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3345 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12182 times:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 12):

are you serious ???

Of course they do. Most airlines (not sure about Delta) give a few credits a year and then the rest are bought with cash. Everyone else buys their work clothes, right?

AAndrew


User currently offlineEHHO From Bulgaria, joined Dec 2005, 815 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12127 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
on transatlantic routes, many are begining to look very worn and tired. Particularly those old Air Canada 762s

I'm not aware of any AC transatlntic service on 762s. They only use A340s, A330s and 763s over the pond.

Just ran a random check on a few AC 762s on www.acarsd.org: yep, they're only used on YYZ-YUL runs and holiday trips to Florida and the Carribean.



"Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as much as you please" -- Mark Twain
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12118 times:

Glasgow used to always be 762 for Air Canada, always.

User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12118 times:
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Quoting Aa757first (Reply 15):
Of course they do. Most airlines (not sure about Delta) give a few credits a year and then the rest are bought with cash. Everyone else buys their work clothes, right?

true .... I guess I never thought about it that way ( or more accurately , I never thought about it at all )



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3762 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12090 times:

Quoting EHHO (Reply 16):
I'm not aware of any AC transatlntic service on 762s. They only use A340s, A330s and 763s over the pond.

AC operates the 762 during summer to MAN and GLA from YYZ  Smile


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Photo © Mick Bajcar
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Is AC serving GLA this summer?

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12090 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
If Delta is serious about further expansion in Europe, why dont they get a few more 777s for busy routes or even bring back some MD11s (please, proper long haul jets)

The 76ER IS a proper longhaul jet. It's the backbone of DL's T/O fleet, and it does the job reliably, and still has many years left in them. Why replace something that's working just fine for them?

I do like how the -400's are being moved Intl too, should have been done a long time ago.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12090 times:
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Quoting B742 (Reply 19):
Is AC serving GLA this summer?

nope ...after more than 50 years the service is canned



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineB742 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 3762 posts, RR: 19
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12090 times:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 21):

nope ...after more than 50 years the service is canned

What a real shame, is this due to poor loads or due to Air Transat at GLA?

Rob!  wave 


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12053 times:
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Quoting B742 (Reply 22):
What a real shame, is this due to poor loads or due to Air Transat at GLA?

I think poor yields rather than loads ... but competition has a lot to do with it too ... I think that there is another Canadian airline flying to GLA as well as Air Transat



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 12031 times:

Zoom they chased AC awaaay, ah zoom lalalalala

25 Matt : Yes, they still do, especially in the summer. This summer, for example, AC will be using the 762 on the following routes: YYZ-DUB-SNN (AC894) YYZ-CDG
26 CRGsFuture : You are correct Z6, known as Zoom Airways. There owned by a Scotsmen. Edit: Orion beat me to it.[Edited 2006-01-29 00:11:16]
27 FLYACYYZ : GLA is history (for the time being) due to poor yields. The 762 is also used to DUB/SNN/AMS & the odd summer tourist flight to CDG/LHR. It will also
28 EHHO : Thank you, gentlemen. I stand corrected.
29 LTU932 : And I believe they're flying every now and then 762s to SJO from YYZ, while TS has restarted seasonal service from YUL (and YYZ, but I'm not sure) wi
30 Post contains images FXramper : Yeah. I know a girl that just got a job as a flight attendant for CO. Training is 4.5 weeks, non-paid. At the end of it, if you make it, you get to s
31 Positiverate : "All they have available is (sic) those 763's". That's all most airlines have available. Would you rather they put the 757's on trans-Atlantic? They
32 GARPD : Co 757s are quite comfortable with excellent cabin service. Personaly, twin or wingle aisle makes no difference to me.
33 AerorobNZ : You're kidding. I have picked up 2 full sets of the new NZ uniform for free. Value is probably a minimum of $2000 a set - it's a major designer label
34 Skydrol : 757: 33% aisle seats, 33% window seats, 33% middle seats 767: 57% aisle seats, 29% window seats. 14% middle seats Although it might not make any diff
35 Post contains images MD90fan : From what i've read on here US's 762 are pretty ratty There still is the YUL-PAP Sat. flight?
36 Carpethead : Check out the interior of a 767s produced after 2002, they have the feel of the 777 (albeit a little thinner). Although I have never crossed the Atlan
37 Lufthansa : Well, when you consider that a few years back NW made those DC-9s like like 717s inside and most pax had no idea they weren't on a new jet, or that SA
38 Post contains images A340600 : Another great statement from you which you obviously haven't bothered to research. As already said they paid for them ages ago. I think we should put
39 EHHO : Well, they actually look very crappy, quite a bit worse than some Maddogs that AA has (especially the ex-TW ones). I flew LN-RMH about a year ago, an
40 Matt : Yes, read the message and you'll see that it's there. The list I posted was for summer flights (2006). At the moment (winter season), AC's 762 are fl
41 NonRevKing : I think I speak for most people on here when I say...Huh? I'll trade you for a bucket load of common sense. I have plenty...You need some. Yea, most
42 Post contains images GARPD : Thats as maybe. The thing that I look for is comfort and service plus a good view out of the window. If a flight has all 3 of these, I will enjoy it.
43 TomFoolery : I have been on DL 763 and although a bit dated, it was at least in good working order (as far as the passenger service units) and the IFE worked, and
44 Adriaticus : I'm indeed surprised. Talking first-hand, I can tell you FX does not sell the uniforms (nor any part of any kind of work equipment) to its employees.
45 Post contains images Vs25 : I had my first flight on a 767 from LHR-IAD about a year ago with UA and although I loved the 2-3-2 (and E+), I was shocked by the state of the aircra
46 Post contains links and images DptMAN : How about BA's MAN>JFK B767. View Large View MediumPhoto © Wingnut dptMAN
47 JFK998 : BA has a daily 767 service from Manchester to JFK, and they only use one 767 for that route on a daily basis. I would think that old bird is tired...
48 Post contains links and images VinnieWinnie : I"m glad to announce that the winner of this worn and tired B767 contest is OO-TUC, TUI Belgium's sole workhorse for long-haul destinations : View Lar
49 NYCAAer : No chance whatsoever. American made the decision in 2003 to use the 777s exclusively on LHR/LGW routes where a larger 3-class aircraft is warranted,
50 Positiverate : But to clarify again, the 763's are getting them as well. Um, take a look at the pictures. The dresses are actually red, not orange.
51 Post contains images Xkorpyoh : all the BA 763 have been refurbished and they look like new inside. I flew last nov LHR-DAR and it was very nice and comfy, with PTV and everything.
52 MD90fan : How are the loads on YUL-PAP?
53 Access-Air : I think its funny that most of the people posting "Its time to retire the 767s" are people that were born in the 1980s or later.... They seem to have
54 Matt : I don't know for sure, but I imagine they're good considering the huge Haitian population in Montreal. The flight, however, only operated once a week
55 Access-Air : Um...Access-Air Didint make that comment... Access-Air
56 CalAir : I flew G-BNWY LCA-LHR in August and the economy cabin looked very worn. We were in the forward portion of economy in the leather seats, but no PTV (w
57 ORDagent : DL et al should take a page out of NW's book. The DC-9's though ancient have had interior rebuilds and look just fine...
58 DTWAGENT : I have a questions??? What is DL going to do for the HNL, OGG, Kona routes. They are using their 764 on them now... If they move them over to the tran
59 DL787932ER : The rest of the 764s, probably. They're only converting 8 out of their 20 to international.
60 DAL767400ER : Correct, plus a 763ER on ATL-OGG. Small correction: 8 out of 21 764s. As for the 763 cabins, they appeared pretty normal on my last two flights on th
61 Post contains images A340600 : As previously mentioned, all been refurbished, G-BNWH included. Also, that is the end of a 'MAN BA 767' as it will be on constant rotation now, no ai
62 RwSEA : First off, DL only has a few destinations that could support a 777 that don't see them already. In my opinion, these are FCO, MXP, and GRU. For other
63 Cgnnrw : You took the words right out of my mouth. Let's face it a lot of our younger a.netters are simply spoiled. When their toys begin to show a bit of wea
64 AerorobNZ : the problem is as has been stated that they are not in the long term plans of many airlines now, so the capital for investing in refitted cabins can b
65 777jaah : I don't think those 767s should be replñaced just bc they have 15+ years in service. AV has faced competition on their T/O routes from Iberia and Air
66 EHHO : AF and IB have A345s? They fly them to Colombia? Since when did US bankruptcy laws apply to AV?
67 Post contains links Atmx2000 : http://www.atwonline.com/channels/da...nomics/article.html?articleID=1288 http://news.airwise.com/stories/2004/12/1102849716.html They had a US subsi
68 777jaah : Sorry. They fly A343s. If you knew you shouldn't be so sarcastis, just correct me. And yes, US laws apply to Avianca Inc. a fully established america
69 EHHO : I didn't know that, thanks for the info. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to be sarcastic.
70 Jmc757 : Classic! Can I use that as my signature, I've never really known what to put but that seems perfect! Once again I'm sat at my computer pondering why
71 Richierich : I haven't flown on a BA 767 since they have been retrofitted with new interiors (?) and PTVs but I can say that previously the BA 767 trans-Atlantic
72 LongHauler : I find this amusing. I would guess that 99% of the people on this website would give their left testicle (if so equipped) to cross the Atlantic on an
73 Letsgetwet : . 757: 33% aisle seats, 33% window seats, 33% middle seats 767: 57% aisle seats, 29% window seats. 14% middle seats[/quote] But it doesn't make sense
74 TOLtommy : Still younger than a NW DC9, and you can expect to see those for a few more years at least. The 767 is a great airplane. When well maintained, there'
75 FlyDreamliner : The 767 is my aircraft of choice for long haul (well, anything less than say, 11 hours or so). It has the fewest middle seats, and nicely straddles be
76 Rainbird : The first refurbished ship with the new interiors and the Panasonic eFX Digital IFE( the same IFE used with Song ) is scheduled to be done this sprin
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