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Aeromexico To NGO?  
User currently offlinePzurita1 From Greenland, joined Sep 2002, 1393 posts, RR: 14
Posted (8 years 7 months 6 days ago) and read 3548 times:

We all know about MX plans to start flying to China by 2007. However, as it has been posted recently ( AeroMexico's International Expansion 06! (by Ghost77 Jan 26 2006 in Civil Aviation)#90 ) AM might also be considering flying to Asia (NGO to be precise) as soon as next May.

I believe both ventures have good chances to succes as they could target not only Asia-Mexico market, but also Asia-South America with efficent connections in MEX (avoiding difficult VISA regulations with both US and Canada set on almost every South American nation).

However I am (as always) a little bit skeptical about this AM plans. It seems they have not a/c to perform this route. They are getting two B777 in the next few months, but according to what has been said, they are going to be intensivly used in CDG, MAD, SCL and GRU runs. Moreover, isn't it May so close to start a service without any prior notice to the travel comunity?

So, I would like to ask you guys in Japan if you've heard something about this? May be someone working for the Chubu Airport could have some info about this.

If AM and MX really start serving Asia, there is no doubt MEX could become a gateway to Asia for Latin America. I can see connections to LIM, EZE, SCL, GRU, GIG, PTY, SJO.

PZ


Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1777 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3481 times:

I'm not holding my breath. I don't even see AM flying to London anytime soon, much less to Asia. Sounds good on paper though.

User currently offlineXA744 From Mexico, joined Mar 2004, 734 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3472 times:

Quoting AM744 (Reply 1):
I'm not holding my breath. I don't even see AM flying to London anytime soon, much less to Asia.

Now someone is making sense here ! You know what I mean, don´t you EddieDude ?

Regards



No matter how you fly...just never get your wings clipped !
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5219 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3458 times:

Quoting AM744 (Reply 1):
I'm not holding my breath. I don't even see AM flying to London anytime soon, much less to Asia.

Well, very truth! Thank you very much for making us touch the ground again!! If something new comes from AM; it would and could be EZE, GIG and BCN before anything!!!

Dreams for MXP/FCO, LHR, AMS, NGO and other will have to wait a little more, at least not until it's sold.

ghost77 APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3369 times:

Quoting AM744 (Reply 1):
I don't even see AM flying to London anytime soon


I'm confident this year we'll hear the news about AM flying London.


User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3358 times:

Quoting Juventus (Reply 4):
I'm confident this year we'll hear the news about AM flying London.

Hopefully if AM goes to NGO, why not MX to FRA or other german cities  Wink

Quoting Pzurita1 (Thread starter):
I believe both ventures have good chances to succes as they could target not only Asia-Mexico market, but also Asia-South America with efficent connections in MEX (avoiding difficult VISA regulations with both US and Canada set on almost every South American nation).

Agree

Quoting Pzurita1 (Thread starter):
However I am (as always) a little bit skeptical about this AM plans. It seems they have not a/c to perform this route. They are getting two B777 in the next few months, but according to what has been said, they are going to be intensivly used in CDG, MAD, SCL and GRU runs. Moreover, isn't it May so close to start a service without any prior notice to the travel comunity?

Also MX already is in talks with Baja California goverment for some facilites for the China flight.

Saludos



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineAnthsaun From Mexico, joined Apr 2004, 544 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3303 times:

I used to live in Japan a few years ago and I don´t think NGO is a good start up for AM nor for MX. If a Mexican airline wants to land on Japan, the best options are NRT or KIX.

Also, May is too close. Business deals take a little longer than that.



Over 80 years in business say a lot about success
User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4942 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3254 times:

Quoting N405MX (Reply 5):

Also MX already is in talks with Baja California goverment for some facilites for the China flight.

Baja California? You mean a flight to Asia from TIJ???? What about SAN? We're kind of lacking in the intercontinental flights department...  grumpy 



Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3228 times:

First of all there has been no news from any of my contacts about this. Chubu Management has been courting carriers to start service, espcially ones with service to South America. We lost RG and then AA. UA has some service but the problem is that all those carriers would require travelers from South American nations to get U.S. transit visas which kills the route.

Quoting Anthsaun (Reply 6):
I used to live in Japan a few years ago and I don´t think NGO is a good start up for AM nor for MX. If a Mexican airline wants to land on Japan, the best options are NRT or KIX.

NRT...slot restricted.
KIX ... latin population a fraction of NGO.
NGO...Cheap landing and 24hr ops.

NGO has one of the largest concentrations of South Americans outside of South America. The Brazillian popuation alone is around 350,000 (nationwide) and rising. 2/3 of that population is in Chubu. Peruvian and Argentinian make up the next largest south american groups.

As of now, the whole idea of AM is just what we have seen on A.net. I heard it first on A.net.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3177 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3207 times:

Quoting San747 (Reply 7):
Baja California? You mean a flight to Asia from TIJ???? What about SAN? We're kind of lacking in the intercontinental flights department...

SAN's lack of service is probably a big reason why TIJ is being considered over MEX.



FLYi
User currently offlineAdriaticus From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1137 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3181 times:

Quoting San747 (Reply 7):
You mean a flight to Asia from TIJ???? What about SAN?

EddieDude may shed more light on this one, but I believe there wouldn't be traffic rights beyond the USA for a Mexican carrier.

TIJ makes very good sense as a stop in the way to the Far East; it would not only serve as a perfect technical stop at sea level, but could also capture O&D passengers related to the maquiladora industry as well as those heading all the way to MEX and connections (including those in Central and South America).

Let's remember the Asian market is the fastest-growing segment of the air transportation worldwide. It is late already, but Mexico better tap into that market before it is really way too late.

TIJ could also serve as a modest gateway. If flights coming from Asia make a stop there, you will start seeing AM/MX flights going from TIJ to other of the border cities or even city pairs: CJS/ELP, NLD/LRD (with no current non-stop service), even CUU, MTY or SLW could receive increased or non-existing frequencies on small, ERJ145's or A319's / F100's... And a tourist trap: a TIJ-CUN flight catering to visitors from the Far East.

Currently only JR makes a single daily nonstop TIJ-CUU, and A6 a daily nonstop TIJ-MTY... The market's there, folks. All these routes could feed widebodies to Asia.

Something else noone seems to take into consideration is cargo as a driver of these flights... The Mexico-Far East air cargo service is well underserved.

IMHO, If someone in AM or MX is doing its homework, they'd better think of Asia as a priority... Yes, even before LHR or FRA...

___Ad.

[Edited 2006-02-01 05:26:40]


A300/18/19/20/21 B721/2 B732/3/G/8 B741/2/4 B752 B762/3/4 B772/3 DC8/9/10 MD11 TU134/154 IL62/86 An24 SA340/2000 E45/90
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5219 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3171 times:

Thank you very much for your input Adria!!! I sometimes really don't know what to think... but I'm also confident market is there, but what stops MX or AM was CINTRA. Everything was about setting plans for the moment but no midterm or future plans for growth considering a 10 year basis plan!!!

At least I'm also confident MX will land in China, that will be seen in 2007 but still they'll get there!!!

ghost77 APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5089 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3049 times:

When AM opens service to NGO, I will open a bottle of Antiguo and celebrate. Too far fetched I think. LHR will happen prior.

-A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1597 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3021 times:

Quoting San747 (Reply 7):
Baja California? You mean a flight to Asia from TIJ???? What about SAN? We're kind of lacking in the intercontinental flights department...

The SD County Airport Authority visited ANA in December for just that reason.
So things are in the works.



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1791 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3016 times:

If you go and visit TIJ airport you can allmost be sure that you will find passengers who live in San Diego taking flights to other parts of Mexico from TIJ, so the market is there but I do not know how big of a market this is.

This also happens in the opposite direction, for example, from TIJ there are no flights to Cabo......but there are flights from SAN direct.

I wonder if somewhere someone is keeping track of how many Southern California residents are taking flights from TIJ and how many "Tijuanenses" take flights from SAN.



Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineDCAYOW From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 602 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3009 times:

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 13):
The SD County Airport Authority visited ANA in December for just that reason.
So things are in the works.

Yes, but the problem with SAN is a service only works with the 787 or A345/6 everything else you might want to use (e.g. 747, 777) is not economically feasible from SAN. TIJ with a comparable RWY length has the benefit of unconstrained departures (no Point Loma in the way) and therefore the 777 can be used.



Retorne ao céu...
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5089 posts, RR: 55
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2998 times:

Quoting Marcus (Reply 14):
I wonder if somewhere someone is keeping track of how many Southern California residents are taking flights from TIJ and how many "Tijuanenses" take flights from SAN.

= Has crossing the border become less burdensome? I crossed it once and remember the lines to be significant.

Cheers,
A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1597 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2983 times:

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 15):
Yes, but the problem with SAN is a service only works with the 787 or A345/6 everything else you might want to use (e.g. 747, 777) is not economically feasible from SAN. TIJ with a comparable RWY length has the benefit of unconstrained departures (no Point Loma in the way) and therefore the 777 can be used.

ANA is getting the 787, right?



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2974 times:

Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 16):
= Has crossing the border become less burdensome? I crossed it once and remember the lines to be significant.

It depends on the time of day. During rush hour in the morning, getting into the United States can be hell, as many Tijuanenses are commuting across to jobs in San Diego. Conversely, at the end of the day, there is a huge influx of people back into Tijuana. Moreover, getting into the United States is always harder than getting into Mexico, just in general.

Nevertheless, both cities are continually working to facilitate the huge number of border crossings each day. I believe a new checkpoint was opened just a few months ago, which has greatly helped commute times.

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 17):
Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 15):
Yes, but the problem with SAN is a service only works with the 787 or A345/6 everything else you might want to use (e.g. 747, 777) is not economically feasible from SAN. TIJ with a comparable RWY length has the benefit of unconstrained departures (no Point Loma in the way) and therefore the 777 can be used.

ANA is getting the 787, right?

I really wonder if ANA's recent 737-700ER order could affect SAN's prospects. Personally, I don't see the plane as being that economical, but it probably also has the legs to make it out of SAN.

Nevertheless, the 787 is obviously still SAN's best bet when it comes to future international service.

Aaron G.


User currently offlineBartolo From Spain, joined Jan 2006, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2946 times:

Quoting Juventus (Reply 4):
I'm confident this year we'll hear the news about AM flying London.

This will definitely not happen.


User currently offlineMjt909 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2920 times:

Quote:
= Has crossing the border become less burdensome? I crossed it once and remember the lines to be significant.

The busiest times at the borders are in the morning on weekdays (commuters heading to work) and the afternoons/evenings on weekends (shoppers/tourists heading back north). The Otay Mesa border crossing, which is right near TIJ airport, is never as bad as the main border crossing at San Ysidro. I've made it through there in as little as 10 minutes, or the longest an hour. Again it just depends on the time of day.

Quote:
TIJ makes very good sense as a stop in the way to the Far East

Keep in mind that there is a decent sized (and growing) Chinese population in TIJ. San Diego also has a large Chinese population, which normally drives to LAX when they need to fly to China.


User currently offlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1597 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2903 times:

Quoting Mjt909 (Reply 20):
Keep in mind that there is a decent sized (and growing) Chinese population in TIJ. San Diego also has a large Chinese population, which normally drives to LAX when they need to fly to China.

I always have to send San Diego people packing to LAX when traveling to Asia. There is such a large Asian population here and all we do is bolster L.A.'s numbers. It is really getting frustrating.  banghead 



Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineN405MX From Mexico, joined May 2004, 1378 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2869 times:

Quoting San747 (Reply 7):
Baja California? You mean a flight to Asia from TIJ???? What about SAN? We're kind of lacking in the intercontinental flights department...

The problem there will be like Centrair said, the VISA, as more the US ask for more stuff to mexicans, brazilians, etc, etc, etc, it´s easier to start a flight from TIJ that SAN.

Quoting Mjt909 (Reply 20):
Keep in mind that there is a decent sized (and growing) Chinese population in TIJ. San Diego also has a large Chinese population, which normally drives to LAX when they need to fly to China.



Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 21):
always have to send San Diego people packing to LAX when traveling to Asia.

Instead of overcrowd LAX, it can be done in TIJ.

Saludos



Life is what happens when you have other plans.....
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5219 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days ago) and read 2802 times:

I was checking Boeing's numbers of the new B737-700ER!!! A MEX-LHR flights is 4.900nm, Boeing's new toy is capable of flying 5.510nm!!! AM perhaps later could consider in a way MEX-LON with B737ER!!!

ghost77 APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineMTY2GVA From Switzerland, joined Nov 2005, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 5 days ago) and read 2787 times:

It would be very impractical to use the 737-700ER to fly to LON because the tanks use much of the cargo hold, plus I imagine from MEX as usual range is most probably punished because of the Hot and High. I love AM and I would love them to have all the cool birds, but unfortunately that's how it is.

Arriba Monterrey saludos desde Suiza



Tengo orgullo de ser del norte del mero San Luisito...
25 EddieDude : So guys, do you think that the officer of AM who told the reporter about AM's plans to fly to Japan estaba pedo and that this will not happen? It can'
26 Mike1974 : Interesting to know AM is looking into the Asian market. I guess this may have to do with the possibility of MX starting flights to China by 2007. Wou
27 Marcus : In order to accommodate international flights TIJ would definitely need to expand the Customs area, as of right now it consists of 3 booths that all p
28 Adriaticus : You hit the nail... What you read is true. AM can make it to Asia from YVR using the new B772ER's, and MX can jump from TIJ with whatever widebody th
29 2travel2know : Mexico does require VISA for many Latinamerican nationals, while it may be easier to transit MEX without a visa enroute to Europe or Asia, it's a has
30 Centrair : If it can do LAX-Asia, why not TIJ? Its only a 108nm difference. LAX-Japan is about 10 hours then a flight from TIJ would be about 11 or 11.5 hours.
31 Post contains images MTY2GVA : Even more simple if IAH-NRT (which I will be flying in two weeks ) works all year long then TIJ-NGO shouldn't be a problem.
32 Ghost77 : I think it would be more convenient for AM to go via LAP or TIJ. Remember Luis Echeverría frustrated attempt MEX-LAP-HNL-NRT with Dc8s. Perhaps a MEX
33 Post contains links and images Coronado990 : Building a full length taxiway to accommodate the heavies was an important modification that was just completed as can be seen in the only overview o
34 Post contains images Latinplane : LOL! Los años del cine de oro Mexicano! Or what? Maybe one day there will be a MEX-HNL. I wonder why nobody has really explored the idea. I'm sure t
35 Post contains images Latinplane : ¡Mas bien fumo de la buena! No, really, It can be done, but this will distract AM's ability to increase its market share in its already established
36 2travel2know : Wealthy Mexicans might preffer to holiday in PPT instead of HNL. Flying from México via HNL to Japan would add miles and make the route longer. The
37 Adriaticus : In addition to this, a stop in HNL would entail 5th freedom issues, plus USA visa requirements for the pax. The competitive advantage of a stop withi
38 Bartolo : Hi Latinplane Regarding start up time. I can tell you that AM can move very quickly when the decisions are made. We utilize third party handlers and h
39 Post contains images Latinplane : Thanks for that Bartolo. Hoping that AM indeed makes it to Asia! I'm thinking that before the U.S. security measures were conceived after 9/11, this
40 Ghost77 : Hey Bartolo! Glad to know and seems we have finally an AM insider!! So, is it confirmed? You know something else on AM's 3rd B777? ghost77 APM
41 MTY2GVA : The Mexican President aboard TP-01 uses Hawaii as a technical stop when going to Asia ( at least when he went to Shangai for APEC). And when going to
42 Pzurita1 : I am completely amazed by the large amounts of both Brazilians and Peruvians in Japan. They are both among the fifth largest communities in Japan acc
43 N405MX : It can be done, but will be really restrictive, they´ll need more frames to get all the routes without problem or they will have some trouble like y
44 Post contains images Latinplane : The 777s should be used to replace the old 762s on AM primary routes. If it wants to open new markets it needs more 777s, but I don't think its that
45 N405MX : Very interesting, and indeed, it could be usefull, as a lot of koreans are working in Mexico (just an example, PEMEX), so that route will be a really
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