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Theoretical: If Boeing And Airbus Worked Together  
User currently offlineAirlinelover From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5580 posts, RR: 22
Posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5041 times:

I was wondering.. and it's probably been discussed before..

If (and i'm sure it won't happen) Boeing and Airbus were to join forces to create an airplane together, what would it be, what range, etc etc..

Now I am not looking for any modified airliner pics or anything, just theoretical possibilities.. By combining both of them, the best both have to offer, I'd like to see what would happen..

Anyone?

NO AvB WARS!!

Chris


Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3505 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5034 times:

You're funny, I like that.

 Wink



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineBG777300ER From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2005, 260 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5030 times:

A B390-900 (B represents boing and the numbers represent the airbus naming system), two decks plus a Boeing 747 "hump" as a third level. It will have 4 GE90s, and have the range of the 772LR. It would have new GE90s with bleedless technology, and be almost all composite, like the 787.


Koi mi sra v gashtite?
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 5030 times:

I'm guessing they'd actually build much lower quality aircraft since they would be the only game in town for most types. Necessity is the mother of all invention... and dominance is the father of shoddy workmanship.  Wink


Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineNorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4991 times:

An SST would be an interesting project for both to work on, though given some fundamental design preferences by both companies (for example their differing views on FBW systems or even the simple yoke vs. side stick) I don't know if it would work. Not too mention that an SSTs are hampered by being gas guzzlers compared to more traditional aircraft. However you never know what technology will bring us, so here is the BoeBus SST

- Cruise speed of 3.0 Mach
- Bleedless engines
- Largely composite
- seating for 350 in a 3 class layout
- operating costs equal to a 773ER
- Twin engine
- Range of 11,000nm
- MTOW equal to an A380F
- OEW equal to a 7773ER

Now if only physics/lack of technology wouldn't get in the way


User currently offlineAirfoilsguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4976 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 3):
I'm guessing they'd actually build much lower quality aircraft since they would be the only game in town for most types. Necessity is the mother of all invention... and dominance is the father of shoddy workmanship.

It would also cost 3 times as much due to it being built by a monopoly. It would also have 4 engines. A Rolls-Royce, a GE, a Pratt, and a Snecma.


User currently offlineLehpron From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 7028 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4957 times:

Quoting Airlinelover (Thread starter):
NO AvB WARS!!

Dude! Why say it?

Quoting NorCal (Reply 4):
An SST would be an interesting project for both to work on

That would be the only option at this point. It would be the only one to make any sense. Though I wish that SSBJ deal with those other two companies would just disappear.

No, I'm not wishing them ill, I just do not think they are helping the greater good of the commercial aviation industry by making an airplane that the majority of regular folks cannot afford!!  Angry I wouldn't support that.

Quoting NorCal (Reply 4):
However you never know what technology will bring us

I do. Big grin

Quoting NorCal (Reply 4):
Now if only physics/lack of technology wouldn't get in the way

Science is our friend. But you have to have faith in people first. We are the ones who come up with ideas, not the technologies.



The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
User currently offlineNorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4922 times:

Quoting Lehpron (Reply 6):
Science is our friend. But you have to have faith in people first. We are the ones who come up with ideas, not the technologies.

haha, yeah I know, I guess I am getting impatient  embarrassed 
I know plenty of Aero-engineers and they are incredibly bright and I believe/hope they will make stuff like SSTs an economical reality


Training to be a pilot I always want something bigger/faster/better to fly. I'm ok with technology as long as it doesn't design me out of the cockpit, but I guess that is my problem to deal with  Sad.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9643 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4901 times:

If Airbus and Boeing combined, then there would be some huge antitrust issues. There are only two large scale makers of full size jetliners nowadays. Boeing and McDonnell Douglas probably wouldn't have been allowed to merge in the 1980s before there was a third competitor. Quality would fall and prices would rise if Airbus and Boeing worked together. That isn't the way business works best.

Quoting NorCal (Reply 4):
- Cruise speed of 3.0 Mach
- Bleedless engines
- Largely composite
- seating for 350 in a 3 class layout
- operating costs equal to a 773ER
- Twin engine
- Range of 11,000nm
- MTOW equal to an A380F
- OEW equal to a 7773ER

Now if only physics/lack of technology wouldn't get in the way

Actually a lot of this is possible. If money were not a factor, then yes you could get a plane to do all of that. Of course an ideal plane would be made out of titanium (not composites). Titanium is stronger and lighter than aluminum and is all around the perfect material for a plane. Now if only it didn't require a complex manufacturing process that would make planes cost in the billions each.

Size isn't a limiting factor. It could happen. Heck if we wanted to, we could launch a mission to send humans to Pluto, but that isn't happening any time soon. Money is the limit of progress and technology.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 4856 times:

If they worked together, we'd be stuck on the 80s generation of aircraft forever. There'd be no innovation, no reason to change.

They'd get making a 767 down to $3.50, and still sell it for $125m.

N


User currently offlineGARPD From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2660 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4820 times:

Hmm, if A and B worked together....

If we took just the good bits from both manufacturers, you'd get a plane that would perform as promised and be delivered when promised and at a steal of a price...

 devil 



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlineGlareskin From Netherlands, joined Jun 2005, 1307 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 4808 times:

Quoting GARPD (Reply 11):
and at a steal of a price...

Ha ha ha, I see what you mean. The price coming from Boeing, right?

Quoting Airlinelover (Thread starter):
If (and i'm sure it won't happen) Boeing and Airbus were to join forces

For a long time the same was said about Boeing and McDonnel Douglas. Just wait until the Chinese will have their own successful jets in the skies.......



There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4666 times:

Quoting NorCal (Reply 4):
An SST would be an interesting project for both to work on, though given some fundamental design preferences by both companies (for example their differing views on FBW systems or even the simple yoke vs. side stick)

As an aside, it seems to me that since newer aircraft are FBW anyhow, that they could be designed to accept either at build time, or have the configuration changed after the fact. For instance, you buy a 787 with a yoke...you sell it years later to a stick operator, who pulls out the yoke, and on the side panel, installs a sidestick.



When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineTrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4769 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4609 times:
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in the ? early 90s when Boeing was working on a potential 747 replacement, the Very Large Commercial transport, they did approach some of Airbus' parent companies - DASA etc about joint development. Funny, back then they refused to approach Airbus itself as they said then it "wasn't a proper aircraft manufacturer"! Probably same reason they had no problems with Bush 1 negotiating the launch aid subsidy issue with the EU which they now say is illegal but felt was a decent agreement then.

User currently offlineA319XFW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4539 times:

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 13):
in the ? early 90s when Boeing was working on a potential 747 replacement, the Very Large Commercial transport, they did approach some of Airbus' parent companies - DASA etc about joint development

I think it was a bit more than talks.
But then once it finished, people thought it was a ploy from Boeing to waste Airbus' time and they never really wanted to cooperate from the start. But that's what I heard from other people (and read it somewhere here too), so don't know if it is true of course!


User currently offlinePRGLY From Czech Republic, joined Dec 2004, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4533 times:

We would have to create some -C- to be able to to open new A+B v C war


just fly - it is nice
User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4519 times:

I for one would be partial to an Airbus 721 (or whatever name you prefer) - roughly a 757 wing with an A321 fuselage. Hot rod with a more comfy interior!  Smile


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineFLALEFTY From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 470 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4436 times:

These are great times with are living in brothers & sisters!

Boeing and Airbus are doing a great job of prodding one-another into building better planes. Why mess with a good thing?

Competition is GOOD!


User currently offlineBohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2700 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4416 times:

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if it is revealed that Airbus makes some parts for Boeing planes and Boeing makes some parts for Airbus planes.

User currently offlineEI321 From Iraq, joined Jul 2009, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4416 times:

I hope A and A dont join forces. why? Competition results in cheaper, safer and more ground breaking planes (like 787). Also, the existance of a 'BoeBus' monopoly would make it more difficult for smaller manufacturers (Russian, Chisese a/c, Embraer, etc) to enter the market place.

User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4366 times:

Quoting PRGLY (Reply 15):
We would have to create some -C- to be able to to open new A+B v C war

Merge Bombardier and Embraer?



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinePRGLY From Czech Republic, joined Dec 2004, 494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4274 times:

Quoting DEVILFISH (Reply 20):
Merge Bombardier and Embraer

I m almost sure that hypothetic -C- will come from China one day



just fly - it is nice
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26499 posts, RR: 75
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4272 times:

Actually, this is the result of them working together


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Photo © Terence Li



I am not kidding.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineJonathan-l From France, joined Mar 2002, 504 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4244 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
Actually, this is the result of them working together

I think more details, beyond the Very Large Commercial Transport, would be appreciated.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4242 times:

Competition helps Everyone  Smile
regds
MEL



Think of the brighter side!
25 Post contains images Lehpron : Aerospace engineers are gifted with the knowledge to do anything, as in any field of engineering; we do the impossible. We are limited because of sev
26 Post contains images Gr8Circle : Well, to start with, their assembly plant would be somewhere mid-way.....in Iceland? And what in the world would happen to more than half the A.nette
27 Airlinelover : From the Boeing Side From the Airbus Side Chris
28 DLKAPA : Doesn't Boeing assemble something like 25% of the A380?
29 Post contains links JAM747 : Boeing in the mid 70s did approach Airbus about building a twin wide body together. It would have a A300 fuselage and Boeing wing. Airbus turned it do
30 Trex8 : EADS has a contract to supply a composite bulkhead for the 787. I'm not aware of any Boeing division which supplies Airbus directly though Spirit whi
31 Glareskin : How smart of you to find out what he meant with that!
32 Post contains links A319XFW : Hawker de Havilland of Australia ( http://www.hawkerdehavilland.com.au ) is owned by Boeing and builds the wing fences for the A380 amongst others. (
33 AvObserver : According to the 1999 Norris and Wagner book, "Modern Boeing Airliners", Airbus, itself, eventually did become formally involved in this study which
34 Gigneil : No. Boeing manufactures the wingtip fences, and that's it. N
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