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Jarhead Movie - TWA And Military Charters  
User currently offlineARGinLON From Vatican City, joined Jun 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4937 times:

Last night I went to the cinema to see a movie called Jarhead. I really enjoyed and think it was a really honest and brave war movie considering the current political climate.

Movie link http://www.uip.co.uk/jarhead/welcometothesuck.html

The film follows the story of this American soldier who is deployed to the Middle East in 1989 in the build up to the Gulf war. Political opinions aside (I don’t want to start an Iraq War debate) I have a couple of questions:

• When the main character is sent to Saudi Arabia, he flies on a TWA 747 (I guess a 744) that is clearly visible upon arrival. You can also see at least an extra three in the background (all TWA scheme) and one MD11 or DC10 (difficult to tell since is a far front view). My question comes about the paint scheme used and the a/c: I think the paint scheme is from the 70’s and I believe TWA never operated 744. Anybody seen the film?

• Military charters operated by airlines: We all know how lucrative this is but… Any idea on much an airline would charge for chartering a 747 all the way to Saudi? How often this happens?

Thanks!

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMxCtrlr From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 2485 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4928 times:

Most of the 747's operated by PA, NW, TW and UA at that time were in CRAF (Civilian Reserve Aircraft Fleet). I know at PA, we did the "Super Bin Mod" at MIA (to install the larger overhead bins capable of holding a duffel bag) and then sent the aircraft to Boeing ICT for the CRAF Mod (installing a main deck cargo door on the L/H side, aft of the wing and beefing up the floor).

We also did several trial conversions where the PA interior was stripped out and the aircraft was readied in Troop Transport configuration within 48 hours.

When Desert Shield (and subsequently Desert Storm) happened, several aircraft were pulled from each airlines' fleet and put into the CRAF program. Costs were covered but a profit was not made (as per agreement).

MxCtrlr  bouncy 



DAMN! This SUCKS! I just had to go to the next higher age bracket in my profile! :-(
User currently offlineKYAir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 362 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4863 times:

Quoting ARGinLON (Thread starter):
My question comes about the paint scheme used and the a/c: I think the paint scheme is from the 70’s and I believe TWA never operated 744. Anybody seen the film?

Haven't seen the film, but TWA did not operate the 744. They operated 741, 742 and 74SP only. The color scheme was probably accurate for the time-frame however. The two red stripes (think of the Tylenol line from Airplane!  Smile ) on all white was the livery at the time and was from the '70s. The newer and last livery is from the mid '90s.



Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss
User currently offlineDarrenthe747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4848 times:

i saw the movie... and incidently thought it was pretty good, but i noticed that mistake right off the bat. TWA never owned 744's.

User currently offlineARGinLON From Vatican City, joined Jun 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4830 times:

Quoting KYAir (Reply 2):
Haven't seen the film, but TWA did not operate the 744. They operated 741, 742 and 74SP only. The color scheme was probably accurate for the time-frame however. The two red stripes (think of the Tylenol line from Airplane! ) on all white was the livery at the time and was from the '70s. The newer and last livery is from the mid '90s.

I think the paint scheme on the link below is from the 70's...



Quoting MxCtrlr (Reply 1):
Most of the 747's operated by PA, NW, TW and UA at that time were in CRAF (Civilian Reserve Aircraft Fleet). I know at PA, we did the "Super Bin Mod" at MIA (to install the larger overhead bins capable of holding a duffel bag) and then sent the aircraft to Boeing ICT for the CRAF Mod (installing a main deck cargo door on the L/H side, aft of the wing and beefing up the floor).

The film stated that over 500,000 soldiers were deployed to the Middle East. I know that a big part went from bases in different parts of the world but... how many charters flights may have used? A few hundred for sure...


User currently offlineToTheStars From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4770 times:

At TWA during the 90's military charters we painted the entire plane white.


TWA-Airline To the Stars
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4724 times:

This topic was discussed a little while back in another thread but I don't have it handy right now. Do a search for it as there was a fair amount of discussion on it. One thing that looks like has changed was from the preview where they showed a 744 in the gray livery that wasn't introduced until the mid-90s when the war was over.


"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineBahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1757 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4676 times:

In trailers they show United 747 too. I think at the time there was no Star Alliance but you can see the *A logo on it. Also, it has the current color scheme of United, which was adopted in 1994.


Earthbound misfit I
User currently offlineDeltaGator From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 6341 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4666 times:

Quoting Bahadir (Reply 7):
I think at the time there was no Star Alliance but you can see the *A logo on it.

Forgot that one. Star didn't exist then so another small mistake. There was an old DL L-1011 in the background missing the Widget. Something else I believe folks mentioned was how you could see mountains in the background but that from guys who had served over there they said you wouldn't have seen that.

As a side note you can see the same kind of mistake in the Clint Eastwood movie "Heartbreak Ridge" at the end where they return to Cherry Point in NC. You can see rugged desert mountains in the background when in fact Cherry Point is in the flat piney woods of eastern North Carolina.



"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
User currently offlineTan flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1897 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4536 times:

Quoting ARGinLON (Thread starter):
You can also see at least an extra three in the background (all TWA scheme) and one MD11 or DC10 (difficult to tell since is a far front view).

Have not seen the movie, however TWA never operated the DC10 or MD11.
They DID operate the L-1011. I would assume some were used for CRAF duty at that time.


User currently offlineFlyer732 From Namibia, joined Nov 1999, 1359 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4426 times:

Quoting ARGinLON (Thread starter):
Military charters operated by airlines: We all know how lucrative this is but… Any idea on much an airline would charge for chartering a 747 all the way to Saudi? How often this happens?

Saudi isn't used anymore, but it happens daily....several times.
World Airways, ATA, Omni, Miami Air, North American are the normal carriers, but you'll also see United, Delta, Continental, Northwest and sometimes American in the mix.


User currently offlineNW305 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4272 times:

I finally saw the movie last night while here on deployment to Turkey and the 747s in the movie featured 747s in TWA colors but it was a combination of the Double Globe Logo near the door and the 1975 stripe color for the fuselage. It looks like they filmed that portion in Marana or some other aircraft petting zoo. The movie was great by the way

User currently offlineJc2354 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4255 times:

Quoting ToTheStars (Reply 5):
At TWA during the 90's military charters we painted the entire plane white

ToTheStars, just out of curiosity, why were they painted white?



If not now, then when?
User currently offlineAirAmericaC46 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 590 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4242 times:

Anybody knows all the airlines? type of aircraft used----and routing? for military charters during the Desert Storm and the Vietnam War?
Thanks for the info.


User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2673 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4236 times:

i was so impressed with the movie getting TWA in I was pretty sure they managed to get the right planes in it.

The production is leasing three L-1011s, two 747s and one 767 from Southern California Aviation.

Universal Studios also brought in a pair of UH-1H helicopters and a C-123, which Clifford pointed out to the director was painted the wrong color and not used by the military after the Vietnam War.


You can read more about this scene here.

http://www.vvdailypress.com/2004/110312114876611.html



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineVinnieWinnie From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 770 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4131 times:

I was actually quit impressed by the planes in the movie as well! Soo many of them it was just massive!

Forgot to post something but I'd really like to know about the logistics of the gulf war: How many planes? Where from? At what expense?... These are a few questions which came up to my mind after the film!

I highly recommend the film too by the way. U really feel like a jarhead at the end though...


User currently offlineFlywithjohn From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4121 times:

Well if you watched the preview for jahard when the DVD comes out you'll see a United 744 Jake Giel gets of a Delta L-4 why they changed this for the movie I got no idea. I found this interesting


Always Blue Sky's.....
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9378 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4095 times:

Quoting KYAir (Reply 2):
The color scheme was probably accurate for the time-frame however.

It was not the correct TWA livery since it has the wrong logo.

The painting of the airplanes aren't really mistakes. When the preview came out they showed UA 744s and some DL Tristars I believe. However before the movie came out, they were able to use the TWA brand name. However they were not permitted to use the 1990 logo, so they used the double globe image from the 70s. These are all associated with trademarks adn licensing issues.

They fortunately were able to reimage the planes into a TWA scheme that was somewhat realistic. The 747s shown in the movie was actually a United 744 parked at Victorville I believe.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineToTheStars From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3989 times:

Quoting Jc2354 (Reply 12):
Quoting ToTheStars (Reply 5):
At TWA during the 90's military charters we painted the entire plane white

ToTheStars, just out of curiosity, why were they painted white?

From what I remember the planes where painted totally white for security reasons. I believe that there was a small TWA next to or above the door.



TWA-Airline To the Stars
User currently offlineAA717driver From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1566 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3945 times:

Since TWA was such a big target in the Middle East for terrorists they didn't want the 747's to attract such attention.

The L10's were used for the craf but weren't painted white. I think they must not have gone all the way to Saudi. I was a L10 FE at the time and could have bid on it. (I'd probably be divorced now if I had. But that's for another thread. I will say that TWA crews were permanently banned from the Rome Jolley Hotel... : D ) I did have friends who flew the CRAF on the 747. It was an experience they never will forget--especially the trips bringing the troops home.TC



FL450, M.85
User currently offlineNW305 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3894 times:

The vietnam military charter flights were operated by most US Carriers but a few did a large number. Braniff based several of there 707s at Travis AFB and routed them via Hickam AFB, Hawaii/Andersen AB, Guam/Clark AB, Philippines to TanSonnhut AB in Saigon and Danang AB. Flights were also sent to Taipei, Taiwan, Yokota AB near Tokyo and Bangkok, Thailand. Look at a Continental Timetable from 1968, it shows all of their contract routes for Military Airlift Command (Today's Air Mobility Command). Flights departed for Vietnam from
McChord AFB, WA, Norton AFB, CA, El Toro MCAS, CA to name a few. TWA flew a lot of personnel from California to Kadena AB, Okinawa (including my family in 1969/1971) during this time. Other carriers providing airlift for the govenment were FLying Tigers, Airlift International, Seaboard World, and Overseas National. For the war in Afghanistan and Iraq contract airliners either depart from the base where an entire unit is being moved or Baltimore/Washington IAP for the regular runs to Kuwait and Krygystan.
The contract airliners to my knowledge do not actually fly to Baghdad, instead they fly to Kuwait then the personnel are moved into Iraq.


User currently offlineNW305 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3883 times:

http://www.airchive.com/Timetables%20and%20Maps/Continental%20Compressed/*COmap6606.jpg

This is the Continental Route Map from 1966 showing their contract routes supporting the War in Vietnam and other Pacific Bases


User currently offlineFlyer732 From Namibia, joined Nov 1999, 1359 posts, RR: 22
Reply 22, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3801 times:

Quoting NW305 (Reply 20):
For the war in Afghanistan and Iraq contract airliners either depart from the base where an entire unit is being moved or Baltimore/Washington IAP for the regular runs to Kuwait and Krygystan.
The contract airliners to my knowledge do not actually fly to Baghdad, instead they fly to Kuwait then the personnel are moved into Iraq.

Fairly accurate, but the BWI flights and flights from DFW and ATL are all R&R flights.

There are flights from BWI to both Kuwait and Bishkek.
ATL and DFW only go to Kuwait.

The contract airlines do not fly into Iraq, but World Airways has, a few years ago... but that was red cross supplies, not passengers.


User currently offlineAirAmericaC46 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 590 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3695 times:

Thanks for the info NW305!

Anybody knows what airlines and type of aircraft used for the military charters to Bishkek?? What routing and refueling stops?


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