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Gatwick Express Rail Link To London To Be Axed...  
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3002 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8239 times:

The British Goverment has announced this morning that the Gatwick Express non-stop train service to London Victoria is to be discontinued.

Gatwick Airport is about 27 miles from Central London and is considered as London's second airport after Heathrow and for many US carriers that cannot get access to the Heathrow airport market, they have no alterntive but to use Gatwick to access London.

Many of these airlines have express their fury at the possibility that the service could end as the train journey was only about 30 minutes to Central London and was compariable with travel time from Heathrow.

The reson for the non stop service being axed is that the Gatwck Express uses some of the busiest rail tracks in the country and takes up valuable space on this line and only benefits travellers to the airport and no one else.

Even though the rail service is highly profitable due to the premium fares being charged, but the trains run half empty, even during peak hours while commuter trains are packed with littler room for even standing passengers. This frees up space on the tracks for more commuter tains to run.

Gatwick will still have frequent rail services to London but airline passengers will have to share busy trains with commuters while carrying heavy bags and limited storage space for bags on these commuter trains. Making the rail service a far less attractive option.

Presently over 24% of passengers using Gatwick travel by rail and this is expected more people will resort to the already busy and congested roads around the airports.

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineXkorpyoh From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8209 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
Gatwick will still have frequent rail services to London but airline passengers will have to share busy trains with commuters while carrying heavy bags and limited storage space for bags on these commuter trains. Making the rail service a far less attractive option

but are the fares going down LGW-city center?
how long would it take with all the stops?


User currently offlineARGinLON From Vatican City, joined Jun 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8193 times:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/4676388.stm

BTW... Who can justify fares about 20% higher than normal trains when this only represents only an extra two stops.

You can see that a huge proportion of passengers going to LGW already use the normal service since it only represents and extra two stops and cost GBP8 versus GBP12

I know this is annoying for passengers going to LGW but looking at the whole picture this makes total sense.


User currently onlineCoronado990 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1597 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8176 times:

Makes no sense what-so-ever. Any link? Just sounds stupid. You cannot ignore 25% percent ridership at a busy airport like LGW. Maybe cut the headway if they are only half full but to stop the service all together makes no sense. What about non-rush hour times when people still need to get to the airport? Weekends? Or is it rush hour every minute of the day?


Uncle SAN at your service!
User currently offlineGilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8147 times:

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 1):
but are the fares going down LGW-city center?
how long would it take with all the stops?

An Open Return Ticket on the Gatwick Express is £25 and £18 with the other train operators that operate on the same route.

The train time varies with other operators but you are looking at 40-55mins.


User currently offlineARGinLON From Vatican City, joined Jun 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8147 times:

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 3):
Makes no sense what-so-ever. Any link? Just sounds stupid. You cannot ignore 25% percent ridership at a busy airport like LGW. Maybe cut the headway if they are only half full but to stop the service all together makes no sense. What about non-rush hour times when people still need to get to the airport? Weekends? Or is it rush hour every minute of the day?

You still have the normal service that uses new trains and only takes an extra 10 minutes.

The train will keep operating but it will continue to Brighton.


User currently offlineB747-4U3 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2002, 990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8109 times:

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 3):
Makes no sense what-so-ever. Any link? Just sounds stupid. You cannot ignore 25% percent ridership at a busy airport like LGW. Maybe cut the headway if they are only half full but to stop the service all together makes no sense. What about non-rush hour times when people still need to get to the airport? Weekends? Or is it rush hour every minute of the day?

It actually makes a lot of sense. I use that section of railway every day, mostly at peak times and it irritates me that Gatwick Express trains run at such low capacity, when other trains are so full they have to leave people behind. Furthermore, the Gatwick Express service is very limited in that it only runs to Victoria station, and thus people who want to go to other parts of London will have to use the normal Southern or Thameslink services anyway. Indeed, I believe the Southern service from Gatwick airport only takes 5mins longer anyway and is more frequent and cheaper. The space that those Gatwick express trains take up could quite easily be used for more commuter trains.

I don't think that the suspension of this service will affect passengers at Gatwick as outside peak times most of the commuter services to Gatwick are empty. With the suspension of the Gatwick Express service, more 12 car trains could be used (instead of the 8 car Gatwick express) which would reduce overcrowding.


User currently offlineBCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8062 times:

See also the thread Gatwick Express (Train) To Be Axed... (by Atco2b Feb 3 2006 in Non Aviation)


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User currently offlineA340600 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 4105 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7870 times:

Quoting B747-4U3 (Reply 6):
It actually makes a lot of sense. I use that section of railway every day, mostly at peak times and it irritates me that Gatwick Express trains run at such low capacity, when other trains are so full they have to leave people behind.

I do too and this does make a lot of sense. Does anyone know what will happen to the actual Gatwick Express coaches, will Southern get them?

The only thing that I think is bad is that the capacity for luggage stowing on Southern is very limited, this is something they need to increase if they're going to be taking a lot more LGW pax,

Sam Smile



Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8193 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7829 times:

Well what the heck?! I was just on that train last month and it was packed both ways... not to mention CO must really enjoy all that ad space!


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User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26370 posts, RR: 76
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7806 times:

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 1):
but are the fares going down LGW-city center?
how long would it take with all the stops?



Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 4):
The train time varies with other operators but you are looking at 40-55mins.

Actually, Southern's trains to Gatwick are often only 5-6 minutes longer than the Gatwick express.

This plan was announced quite a while ago, I guess they finally decided to make the final move. Honestly, this is a good thing because that corridor is insanely busy and the packed nature of the trains is getting to the point that it is dangerous.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5162 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7751 times:

The current Gatwick Express takes 30 minutes. The new service will take 45-55 minutes.

The main issue I see is the poor pax getting on at LGW to a full train that has come from brighton with hardly any standing room!

I;ll just go back to using the car. You can usually get quite good deals on parking @ lgw.


User currently offlineAirish From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 259 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7706 times:

Quoting ANstar (Reply 11):
The new service will take 45-55 minutes.

Where do you get that from the current Brighton service to London Victoria takes only 51 minutes off peak stopping only at East Corydon and Clapham Junction.

This idea to get rid of the Gatwick Express is great. I use the line when ever I have to go to London. Trains in rush hour are nearly always over crowed.

Lets just hope they keep the existing Gatwick Express rolling stock to run Brighton to London Victoria. That might ease the luggage problem.

Here is a link to the Brighton Main Line Route Utilisation Strategy http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/group...ments/page/dft_railways_611106.pdf



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User currently offlineFoxecho From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 746 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7661 times:

Ugh Thameslink is gonna suck, packed wall to wall...might as well fly FR to LTN to get to my friends (in Luton proper) now....

Andrew
JFK/MEM/MCI



..uh, we'll need that to live......
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5162 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7661 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Reply 4):
The train time varies with other operators but you are looking at 40-55mins.

Thats where  Smile


User currently offlineAerofan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1517 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7641 times:

this sucks - well i guess i will just have to make sure i fly into heathrow

isn't this further disadvantaging those carriers who cannot fly into heathrow.

i wonder if there will be a reduction on pax who now fly into gatwick?

when does the axe fall?

[Edited 2006-02-03 21:34:18]

User currently offlineHS748 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7633 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
The British Goverment has announced this morning that the Gatwick Express non-stop train service to London Victoria is to be discontinued.

Part of the UK government's drive to discourage people from coming here!

[Edited 2006-02-03 21:43:54]

User currently offlineIcetitan447 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7560 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
service could end as the train journey was only about 30 minutes to Central London and was comparable with travel time from Heathrow.

From LHR to LGW? what other options are there?

Just Bus?


User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7538 times:

Dont agree with this at all
Nor does BAA and half the people i work with.
I used this service when i got back from the US, nad it was pacekd full of overnight flyers that had just got into the UK, now, imagine this AND commuters as well, there is goin to be no room, and baggage will just be a nightmare.
CONGRATS UK GOVERMENT, U SCREWED THE TRAVELLER AGAIN


User currently offlineGman94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 1239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7487 times:

Makes no sense to me either. I've used the service to and from LGW and some times it has been relatively empty but at other times it's been packed. It sure is going to nice and fun when the peak time early morning transatlantic services hit the peak time early morning commuters.

Welcome to the UK.



British Airways - The Way To Fly
User currently offlineCospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1605 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7442 times:

Just another reason to open LHR to CO.and others..hope the Euros are working on that with the US govt...

User currently offlineViggen From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 7 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7385 times:

My use of the service depends, if I arrive on a weekend or outside of "Rush hour" (and anyone who's ever been on the tube will wonder when exactly it isn't rush hour) then I use the Southern service (same views of overpriced, tiny houses as the Express Smile ) and about 6 pound cheaper.

When I look at taking the tube from Heathrow T3 into Victoria station, all journey times in rush hour (9am in this case) are 50+ minutes, do it on a Saturday morning and that's jumps to 1 hour or more. It also means I have to walk to Heathrow Central (12 minutes), hop on a bus for a 40 minute ride to Earl's Court and then on the District line into Victoria (8 minutes). Heathrow is a huge pain in the arse.

If anyone wants to check, travel times on London Transport:

http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/user/XSLT_TRIP_REQUEST2?language=en

The advantage (IMHO) that LHR has over LGW is connections to other destinations, if your destination is Central London, go to LGW, get a bus, or a cab, or even the train. Yes, canceling the Gatwick Express sucks, but don't think getting to/from LHR with luggage in tow is a cakewalk.


User currently offlineIL96M From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 7118 times:

Quoting Gilesdavies (Thread starter):
only benefits travellers to the airport and no one else

Not true. I personally know a number of people who use it regularly, park-and-ride into London from the Gatwick station using the Express.


User currently offlineR44flyer From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2006, 8 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6968 times:

I always thought that the only problem with the Gatwick Express was that it didn't stop at Clapham Junction. If it just had that one stop I'm sure that it would always be full because of the interchange with other lines.

Or is that just too simple!


User currently offlineDFW13L From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 6901 times:

Now EOS and MaxJet have an advantage! The train service from STN is equal to that of Gatwick, without the hassle.

But more seriously, I would rather fly AA and connect in DFW and then again in ORD or JFK to catch the Heathrow Express if I had to choose between that or nonstop DFW to Gatwick without the Gatwick Express. Maybe this is one reason that AA has discontinued this summer's 3rd DFW-LGW flight plus downgraded flight 78 from 777 to 767 and the RDU service has downgraded to 767. Surely this isn't the reason, but it could play a part.


25 Ba97 : I would be interested in the split of business to vacation travel at LGW and use of the train. I fly monthly through Heathrow and use the Express. The
26 EclipseFlight7 : Couldn't they have all stops during the rush hours and Gatwick-Victoria the rest of the time? While you're buggered if its 6-9 AM or 5-7 PM, the rest
27 EWRSTEW : That is too bad that it is being discontinued..as a crew mwmber that has spent too many nights at a hotel near Gatwick it was always nice to take the
28 N1120A : Um, what are you talking about? Existing limited stopping services to LGW (ones that stop at Clapham Junction, East Croydon or both) take 33-38 minut
29 Post contains images Pacific : The easiest way to boost (standing) capacity is to get rid of the "cross" seats and stick "long" seats like they do on the tube. Peak hour is hell on
30 Post contains images Connector4you : That should be a NO-NO due to current security concerns . . .
31 Ikramerica : Sounds very socialist to me. The route is profitable, it helps bring tourist revenue to the city, but it isn't "fair" to the travelers who commute, pa
32 B747-4U3 : The problem is that the Brighton Mainline is one of the busiest commuter routes in the world. There is no room for adding more trains, and therefore
33 IceTitan447 : Once arriving into LHR on UAL, where do you pick up the National Express bus?
34 B747-4U3 : It is in the Central Terminal Area where the underground station is.
35 Motopolitico : Uh, the Heathrow Express spanks all of those, getting you in to Paddington in 15 minutes. Carrying luggage, there is simply no better option, and I f
36 Post contains links Jfidler : I fly TLL-LGW-TLL twice a month, and I normally arrive into LGW during peak times (morning or evening rush), and depart during non-peak times (Sundays
37 Sonyericsson : does anybody have any information on from which date the gatwick express will be gone? for me very sad, got really used to it. even if it is a bit mor
38 Door5Right : The following is taken off the BAA Gatwick website: WHAT’S IS HAPPENING TO THE GATWICK EXPRESS 03 February 2006 On Thursday 2 February the Departmen
39 AirNZ : I'm sorry, but how on earth do you get 'socialist' out of stopping a particular train service???? Absolute twaddle!! Unbelievable!! Why on earth woul
40 StarGoldLHR : London Bridge is only 5 minutes by Tube from Waterloo. Personally I always felt Victoria was out in the sticks anyway.. bad tube connections from anyw
41 B747-4U3 : I actually think it would be better to increase the Thameslink services that run to Kings Cross via London Bridge. That way passengers from Gatwick w
42 BCAL : Many friends used to park their cars at Gatwick and then take the Gatwick Express into Victoria. That was until BAA bumped up the price of short term
43 Ozvirginuk : Don't forget that VS and BA also have alot of pax from LGW. Before I moved to Sussex, I used to use the LGW express every day from Victoria down to L
44 L1011 : When will the Gatwick Express be done away with? I just bought a first class ticket on it for this July. It came in the mail yesterday. Bob Bradley Ri
45 Iflyatldl : That's really ashame-to me that made it just as attractive to fly nonstop ATL-LGW on DL. I guess it's AA ATL-ORD-LHR. I wonder what the time saving el
46 Post contains images A340600 : Quite rediculous, the age we live in where everyone is obsessed with secuirty to the point of madness. How would a terrorist know which bag was going
47 Planesarecool : I can't believe people are so wound up over it being axed. Both Gatwick Express and Southern's fast services run the exact same route from Gatwick to
48 Post contains images IceTitan447 : You know what, I said screw it. Bought my tickets on EI from LHR-ORK. It isn't worth the time to travel by Bus to LGW to take a flight Out of the sam
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