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Avianca "to Order" 42 Widebodies (Airbus/Boeing?)  
User currently offlineLuisde8cd From Pitcairn Islands, joined Aug 2004, 2571 posts, RR: 31
Posted (8 years 8 months ago) and read 12560 times:

Local media in Colombia is reporting that AV is looking to renew its fleet in a six-year period. They asked both Boeing and Airbus to submit their offers by March 27th.

AV wants 58 planes, including 42 widebodies.

Source (Spanish)
http://www.eluniversal.com/2006/02/04/eco_ava_04A666611.shtml

Anyone from Colombia has more info?

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis

80 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months ago) and read 12545 times:

42 widebodies? It seems quite a too large number of WIDE-BODIES for an airline the size of AV. Perhaps it is 42 new planes total. I doubt AV can support 42 wide-bodies. Not even the largest carriers in Latin America have 42 wide-bodies on their fleet(s).

User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9847 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months ago) and read 12529 times:

Wow, that's a pretty large order. My bet will be that Boeing wins this order with a mix of the 737NG and 787 but anything can happen. For all we know Airbus might have had a business trip to Avianca as well when they were performing A380 test flights in Colombia some time ago. If Airbus was there you might as well send in a few sales representatives to discuss possible deals to Colombian airlines, right?

But as I've said before, I still see Boeing winning this order if true.

Roger


User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months ago) and read 12503 times:

Reading the "El Universal" article from Venezuela (in Spanish), it reads "cabina ancha" / "widebody's". Most likely the press misinterpreted the term...they are not aviation experts.

User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2561 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months ago) and read 12480 times:

El Universal was quoting business newspaper la Republica.
I really think that the latter got the numbers mixed up in the first place, and it should be 16 widebodies and 42 single aisle aircraft. These numbers may include options too.
AV will have to replace 14 757/767 (I assume in this total that they will get another 767 later in this year), and something like 18 MD83s.
The airline will have to take into account growth, that in latin America is expected to be significant. It is not unlikely that the the orders will include aircraft for other airlines under the Synergy umbrella.


User currently offlineSumma767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2561 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months ago) and read 12480 times:

Quoting A388 (Reply 2):
If Airbus was there you might as well send in a few sales representatives to discuss possible deals to Colombian airlines, right?

Indeed! The commercial director was certainly there buttering up both AV and the press.


User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1116 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months ago) and read 12480 times:

Quoting PRAirbus (Reply 1):
42 widebodies? It seems quite a too large number of WIDE-BODIES for an airline the size of AV

Well, the article makes reference to aircraft with "cabina ancha" which, translated directly, means "wide cabin". However, I suspect these "widebodies" are simply larger, single-aisle aircraft, such as the 737-900ER or, perhaps, the A321. I suspect AV will also be ordering for OceanAir and, perhaps, Wayra Perú as well.

A/B could fight over the replacements for AV's MD83's and 757's by their offering 73G/738/739ER or A319/320/321 families. The 787-8 appears to be a great replacement for AV's 767's.


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months ago) and read 12480 times:

A few months back, there was a rumor on this forum about AV ordering around 10 or 15 B787s, I forgat the exact amount. I think 42 'wide-bodies' would be too large a number for AV. It could be 42 airframes total.

On the same token, good news for Colombian aviation, and congratulations...


User currently offlineUSADreamliner From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months ago) and read 12441 times:

Great, I hope they order a mix of 737NG and 777, 787.


USADreamliner Big grin


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9847 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months ago) and read 12427 times:

Quoting Summa767 (Reply 5):
Indeed! The commercial director was certainly there buttering up both AV and the press

Hey Summa767 how are you doing? You are exactly right. If I were Airbus I would send a sales team with the A380 back than to discuss potential aircraft deals in Colombia. The A380 was going to Colombia anyways so why not make use of the opportunity? Big grin

Roger


User currently offlinePdpsol From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1116 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12327 times:

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 8):
Great, I hope they order a mix of 737NG and 777, 787

Hmm... I agree with 73G/738/739's and 787's replacing the MD-83's/757's/767's, but the 777 appears unnecessary. AV could put the 787-8 to good use on its flights to MAD.


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5222 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12243 times:

I think order is for 42 aisle aircraft and 16 widebodies. Avianca please go Boeing!!!

ghost77 APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12127 times:

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
think order is for 42 aisle aircraft and 16 widebodies.

Those are my thoughts too.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
Avianca please go Boeing!!!

It is most likely... (based on AV's loyalty to B for years)



I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12041 times:

I think Boeing's got the edge on this one because of the versatility of the Dreamliner. It's great for the thin-ish long haul to destnations in Europe and it's available to explore new markets further afield. The shorthaul competition however (unless a winner take all situation) will be interesting. Airbus has managed to keep boeing at bay regarding 737 sales and they could sway AV towards the short-haul buses! I really don't see anything else but 787's in AV long-haul future though!

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5222 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12028 times:

Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 12):
It is most likely... (based on AV's loyalty to B for years)

You never know!! Check MX!! From Boeing to Fokker and Airbus...

ghost77 APM



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5912 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11976 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I could see AV having a need for widebody airplanes. They have 767's now. They had 1 or 2 747-200's back in the early 90's. Why not???

MX never was a truly a Boeing airline. They had 727-200's well before Airbus produced A320's and they had DC-10's as widebodies, with exception of their 767-300's.

AV has been a Boeing customer for the most part, with the exception of the MD-80's and the F-50's. Does AV fly F-100's??? Anyway, they were owners of 707's, 727's, 757's, 767's and 747's.

I think they could buy primarily 787's, with a handful of 777-200ER's.

That's my 2 cents. Only the future will know.


User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11584 times:

Do you think 772ER's are absolutely necessary given the -9 variant of the 787 and the prospect of future improvements to MTOW through improvements and also future variants eg -10 (for EK).

I would love to see another carrier from this part of the world select the 777, but i don't know if it's absolutely necessary.

What does AV run to LHR, MAD, BCN CDG (any other cities they serve) and what frequencies??

Also the 787-3 would be perfect for the MIA and JFK traffic and it would probably be pretty economical to run a small sub fleet of -3's given a potentially sizeable fleet of 787-8/ -9's wit AV.

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineBG777300ER From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2005, 260 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11555 times:

Order a freakin 748i, it needs passenger orders!!  Smile


Koi mi sra v gashtite?
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11474 times:

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 16):
LHR, MAD, BCN CDG

As of now they only fly to MAD (BCN?) with 762/3 family aircraft



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11401 times:

I'm surprised they don't fly to LHR and more cities in Spain. In that case I think they should go with the 787 for sure. 787-8's at first that could be swapped over to open up new European cities and 787-9's or (if built -10's) to handle growth. The 777 might be too much capacity if flights currently use 767 variants. I see this as a strong potential 787 customer. Good luck AV!!!


“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11385 times:

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 15):
Does AV fly F-100's???

it will start anytime. The Synergy group (owner of Avianca) purchased 29 f-100s ex AA for their airlines. 10 or those will go to Avianca and they are expected any day now.

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 15):
I think they could buy primarily 787's, with a handful of 777-200ER's.

Don't forget some 737s to replace the MD80's.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 16):
What does AV run to LHR, MAD, BCN CDG (any other cities they serve)

Unfortunately AV does not serve LHR and CDG for a few years now.

Along with MAD and BCN, it also serves ALC in Spain and the following routes: MEX, SCL, EZE, CCS, LIM, UIO, GRU, GIG, PTY, AUA, CUR, PUJ, GYE, MIA, FLL, NYC and JFK. It will start LAX this year again and there are rumors of other cities in Europe but they are just that, "rumors".

Domestically it has almost 55% of the traffic.(18 routes within Colombia)

[Edited 2006-02-05 01:48:59]


I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5912 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11326 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

AA1818...you have a good point. They could buy just a family of 787's to meet all of their widebody needs. How could I forget the 787-10. I chose the 777-200ER because the 787-10 hasn't been offered yet. It's just matter of time.

Yes...I forgot about the 737NG family. I could see AV buying 737-800's (for their MD-80's) and -900ER's for their 757's.


User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11218 times:

Cheers Wedgetail.....it may be premature of my to assume that the -10 variant will be offered.

I'd like to see who AV choses for their shorthaul operator. A Boeing order would be nice, but then again the A32X is a strong(er) competitor and we could see AV operating a mixed fleet!

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12189 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10663 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Would the B787-10 interest AV? B787 slots are getting full, so maybe a launch customer for the B787-10

User currently offline777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10232 times:

A few weeks ago I flew JFK-BOG with AV and had the chance to cross a few words with the captain, as we had a glass of water in the galley. I asked him directly about fleet changes and he said that they were expecting to be changing their 767s and MDs. He really hoped for some 744, but he said it was very difficult to see, mainly bc of the 787 family. I asked him if there was any chance of them becoming Airbus customers, and the answer was "No way". Why?? I guess loyalty to Boeing long haul products. That's he thought, and for the record, he is just a pilot, no management power at all. Do Management in AV take pilots feedback in these cases?? I sure don't know.

Anyway, 737s for the MDs and 787s for medium and long hauls. Those 787s will be fitting right in the money for AV's future european routes, which I'm sure they're eager to fly again (Mainly CDG which is only serviced by AF daily, and LHR).


Links to La Republica in english:

http://www.larepublica.com.co/notici...&template=noticia&fecha=2006-02-05


For even more discussion, don't count down Airbus so early in the game. AV had some indirect experience with the A320 that inherit from Aces after the Alianza Summa deal, and if I'm not wrong, their maintenance team is certified to deal with those ac. So airbus might have a shot in this deal. Time will tell.

http://www.larepublica.com.co/notici...&template=noticia&fecha=2006-02-05


Good luck.



Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
25 Acesscolombia : Yes they actually had 4 Jumbo Jets, the first in south america to do so I doubt it, that was one of the major reason Alianza Summa was ended, as with
26 Luisde8cd : Might sound rude... but that's not correct. The first 747 operator in Latin America was Viasa. They began 747 service in April 1972 (3 years before A
27 AA777223 : I would love to see them choose a mix of 787 and 737NG. I doubt they would have a need for anything larger than a 787-9, like the 777. I certainly don
28 CRFLY : Question for my Colombian friends: How are the finances doing at AV now with the Ocean Group?
29 Post contains images Legacy135 : Going by history it looks indeed obvious for AV to go for an all Boeing fleet. Just take also into consideration, we face here a major deal. Finally t
30 AR385 : The biggest airline in Latam in terms of widewodies is LAN, with 13 763's, and 4 A-340's I think. The following is just a hypothesis, but might be wel
31 AA1818 : What sort of role will politics play ina deal such as this. With Venezuela, Brazil and Argentina speaking out against the US, where does COlombia stan
32 BoeingFever777 : Could they be looking at the ew 737-700ER? Eitherway I believe Boeing will get this sale due to what other have said AV is a Boeing customer has been
33 Post contains images Scbriml : What commonality would there be between the 737 and 787?
34 Acesscolombia : Not at all, thanks for the correction.
35 Post contains images RICARIZA : AVs (Aces) experience with the A320 was not the best one due to the turnaround times (longer than the MDs, because of cooling of brakes of the A320),
36 Acesscolombia : Nope, not a typo, I just love 727's and yes its a really stupid thing to wish for but I loved the 727 filled skies of the 80's. As I told you before
37 Post contains images Jsqvl1 : ....You forgot to mention the 737!!
38 Avianca : + do not forget some 737-100 they had for short time (I think they were one of the first airlines that ordered the 737) but after short time they sol
39 777jaah : Agree it was a problem, having two maintenance teams. Well, somehow what you say really closes the door for Airbus. The only way I can see AV orderin
40 Post contains images Arcano : Well, after flying MD90s and F50s, even a 732 feels as a widebody I also vote for that So was LAN till the 320/340... They do fly to other cities in
41 Avianca : you qutet my with something that I never have said in my reply?
42 Summa767 : The arguments against Airbus have been that their technical support for Aces was not as good as Boeing's has been for Avianca and that -as it has also
43 Post contains images B742 : Yea..... 8x 777-200's 12x MD-11's 5x 767-300's *Above is currently how many widebodies Varig has registered to them, some may not be flying due to fi
44 RICARIZA : Don't be so hard on yourself, I love the lines of the 727 too, I just thought that you were referring to the 787.. didn't know that.. thanks for post
45 Tavong : Well AV was one of the "launch" costumer of the 737-100 but due to the state of the Colombian runway's the engines took all the dirt on them and that
46 Bogota : Gus, that is interesting because I thought that usually when runways are not in very good condition you need wing engined planes precisely to avoid th
47 Tavong : Well i'm not an aeronautical expert but AFAIK ifthat was correct the 737-100 would be kept instead of switching to 727s, the 737-100 was at it's time
48 Ghost77 : MX was a truly Boeing operated. They had 44 B721/722s; largest B727 fleet outside the US. Later they introduce 10 F100s and 08 A320s and some B727s s
49 Incitatus : This could be a threat to Copa. Bogota is a much bigger source of traffic than Panama City. Copa showed that it is possible to establish a hub in the
50 Bogota : Not a very nice comment on your behalf.
51 Incitatus : Well, if one of Colombia's neighbors that has a lot of oil was led by a president with an IQ above 80, they could do just like the Emirates.
52 Post contains images Anxebla : Are you praying over it, Ricardito? This forum is not our forum in Spanish, so please like we say in our language:madura ya! I say you this in the mo
53 Acesscolombia : Dude not cool, even as a joke its still really harsh. Plus, Avianca is owned by a Brazilian multimillionaire. And to you Ricariza,thanks for the back
54 Acesscolombia : That is a really good point, the matter here is that Colombian government has nothing to do with Avianca for it is owned by a foreign (Brazilian) mag
55 Post contains images Anxebla : That is true and well-known fact, Acess
56 Acesscolombia : Well the people in the company always told me that they had struck a good deal with Airbus since the company wanted to get their planes into a new co
57 Jacobin777 : correct, but those were during the "dumb" days of the Boeing sales team (not that I'm not saying Airbus was selling an inferiour product, because the
58 Atmx2000 : Avianca's creditors?
59 Post contains images AcessColombia : You got me there.
60 Elcapi1980 : Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 50): So we could have a race to become the EK of the western hemisphere. Question is how do they fund it. Canal bucks versus c
61 Ikramerica : maybe a mix of A320 series and 787 series. If they have a 6 year time frame, I can't see the 350 being in the mix.
62 Luisde8cd : After CCS's revamp and the birth of govt-funded Conviasa, I think PTY and Copa have to something to be worried about. CCS's location is as perfect as
63 Atmx2000 : Gees, there are lots of touchy people around here.
64 MD90fan : When did Conviasa but a ex.UA 763?? IMO it seems like Boeing doesnt has as much interest in getting orders from start-ups as Airbus is. (Kingfisher,A
65 Post contains links Jsqvl1 : ....Wrong, the 737-900ER is not the newest family member. It is the 737-700ER. Heres the link: http://www.boeing.com/commercial/737family/737-700ER/b
66 S.P.A.S. : Requests for proposal have been sent to Toulouse and Chicago (nee Seattle) for 20+22 A32X/737NG and 7+7 A350/787, according to this week's Flight Inte
67 Cuprita : Great news for AV...I hope a B737-B787 order.....
68 757MDE : In fact Aces was going to receive more A320s, I think they were going to have 8 at the end, I think even one of them was ready to fly to Colombia fro
69 SOUTHAMERICA : In order to improve its cost-structure, last year AV went from 45-minute turn-arounds, to scheduled 25-minute rotations in all domestic spoke destina
70 757MDE : Yes... most of the obra blanca is done already, I just don't know if it's operating as of now. I don't know how the access is going to be, but the 30
71 EddieDude : Like Ghost mentioned, MX was indeed a Boeing airline. There was a time when they had an all-727 fleet and they bragged about it. It seems that soon M
72 Summa767 : The 42 widebody was a newspaper mix-up. As posted in reply 66, it is 20 plus 22 options A320/737NG and 7 plus 7 options A787/A350 We should know some
73 Avianca707359B : I agree, however is either the largest 737NG or the smallest 787 the best aircraft to replace the 757 on such routes as BOG-JFK or CLO-MDE-JFK? The 7
74 EddieDude : Sounds to me like the 787-300 is going to find a home in BOG.
75 Avianca : well if the 787 is to large for BOG-JFK the plane is generally to big for AV and this is not the case. BOG-JFK is not operated with an 757 its with t
76 Post contains links Avianca707359B : Sure it is; the 757 is used during high-season about 3-4X per week and is operated as AV-24 BOG-JFK & AV-025 JFK-BOG. See: http://flightaware.com/liv
77 FCKC : As mentionned above AV is planning to (re)open new European routes. CDG in sight ? As for the order i think the fact that they are loyal Boeing custom
78 Bongo : I think you mentioned the key topic... and that is why exactly don´t think they go Airbus.
79 RICARIZA : I beg to differ. I doubt that Efromovich will receive pressure from the Colombian Government to go Boeing. I spoke with a friend at the Interior Mini
80 FCKC : RICARIZA God listen to you !!!!!!!!!
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