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What Most Likely With Happen To NWA  
User currently offlineFlywithjohn From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 122 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3850 times:

What is the most likely of the following to happen to NorthWest Airlines

Will they become this branch off NewCo like UA Ted and DL Song or is it possible that the entire company becomes NewCo.

Or will they be liquidated and another company could buy them out, if so who has this kind of money. I mean it's not like Pan Am and TWA's flunk out. The industry is in poor shape and few airlines have these resources.

Of course they could come out of this bankruptcy and merge with Delta? Which they are already partners with in the Skyteam.

Anyone have any other thoughts of possibilities

[Edited 2006-02-05 03:50:01]


Always Blue Sky's.....
23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4278 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3771 times:

Quoting Flywithjohn (Thread starter):
Will they become this branch off NewCo like UA Ted and DL Song or is it possible that the entire company becomes NewCo.

Newco would actually be more like what MidAtlantic was, an express carrier using mainline pilots at lower wages, mostly furloughed or junior guys. This is why the Pilots are having a hissy fit because MidAtlantic got sold to Republic, and the mainline flying was lost. Ted and Song at least used mainline pilots at the mainline wages, and Ted pilots are just United A320 pilots that fly regular routes as well.

Quoting Flywithjohn (Thread starter):
Or will they be liquidated and another company could buy them out, if so who has this kind of money. I mean it's not like Pan Am and TWA's flunk out. The industry is in poor shape and few airlines have these resources

You answered your own question. As far as resources go, the Asian slots would be prime for picking, and I would think US could use the opportunity to break into the market. MSP and DTW would be hard hit, and I am not sure if another airline would hub there, but DTW could save a lot of money on Smith replacement with everyone moving into the McNamarra terminal. DC9s would definitely be parked for good I would think. The A319's and A320's would be prime for picking, with a number of airlines operating the type. Also many airlines would love some more 757's, but they would have to willing to take on Pratt and Wittney. A330's could end up with US, as they are the only US carrier operating the type, but european carriers such as EI might want in. 747's would be wanted by several foreign carriers as well.

Quoting Flywithjohn (Thread starter):
Of course they could come out of this bankruptcy and merge with Delta? Which they are already partners with in the Skyteam.

Problem being is Delta is already in bankruptcy themselves, and there would be many complications with this merger, noteably fleets. The only common plane is the 757, so this would make it tricky, plus there is overlap in the southern hubs.

I don't know if they would merge. I can tell you that US is probably the carrier with the most compatable fleet type in the US, plus MSP or DTW would compliment their existing hubs nicely. But I doubt this will happen very much.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4562 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3626 times:

The guy is new. Maybe we could cut him a little slack.

But yeah.. search is a wonderful thing.

 Smile



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineNwab787techops From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3613 times:

Quoting Apodino (Reply 1):
Problem being is Delta is already in bankruptcy themselves, and there would be many complications with this merger, noteably fleets. The only common plane is the 757, so this would make it tricky, plus there is overlap in the southern hubs.

I don't know if they would merge. I can tell you that US is probably the carrier with the most compatable fleet type in the US, plus MSP or DTW would compliment their existing hubs nicely. But I doubt this will happen very much.

US is not the US form 5 or 10 years ago. They are the " NEW USAIRWAYS" (HP's bussiness plan) a LCC, NWA is not! When US merged with HP they had bad first and bussiness service, and they had southwest on there butt for years starting form there ops out West all the way down to the merger day when southwest was in the gates of PHL . NWA is not that way,there service is just as good as any other full service airline out there. US was just about to run out of ops cash, NWA is not there yet.

If NWA was to merger I think CO would be the best mach. There is no or very little nonhub overlap routs that I can think of.Yes, everone even Gordon would like to see CO and UA merger, but come on NW and CO are two class airlines and have been together for years way before DL came around.Yes, the planes you can get me on that one, but the A330 and B767 are two class of service FULL service aircraft. Also they work together a two airline very nice today.


User currently offlineTAN FLYR From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

Quoting Nwab787techops (Reply 4):
If NWA was to merger I think CO would be the best mach. There is no or very little nonhub overlap routs that I can think of.Yes, everone even Gordon would like to see CO and UA merger, but come on NW and CO are two class airlines and have been together for years way before DL came around.Yes, the planes you can get me on that one, but the A330 and B767 are two class of service FULL service aircraft.

Well, IF such a thing were to happen, I would assume that CO would be the surviving carrier. As far as Hubs..well either CLE or DTW would have to go..way to close to each other.Then I think you can make a business plan around EWR/DTW/MSP/IAH. I think MEM would be up in the air.

And I don't think CO would keep the busses on the property too long. A marriage of the two might result in some capacity being taken out of the total system and thus fares to rise to profitable levels.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11630 posts, RR: 61
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3502 times:

Quoting Apodino (Reply 1):
As far as resources go, the Asian slots would be prime for picking, and I would think US could use the opportunity to break into the market.

If any airline in the United States would be able -- operationally or financially -- to acquire Northwest's Asian network, it would be American, and American only, because they are the only airline with enough money right now to finance the deal, are currently solvent and not bankrupt, and already have an enormous global market presence that Northwest's Asian market would highly compliment.


User currently offlineFlywithjohn From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3359 times:

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 2):
Here's a link for you.. I suggest you watch it.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php

Chris

I don't think that had a lot to do with aviation or my question there also could have been a nicer ways informing me of this and in any case there is a lot of NWA bankruptcy threads I asked questions of what's likely to happen and I asked seriously, and yes I'm new.
I formerly with Pinnacle Airlines which is another name of NorthWest Jet Airlink I wanted some other opinions that are not, shall we say so much affected with the out come.
My personal thought is that NW is going to get out of it's debt and continue as a carrier because it holds some key routes and flunk out will cause major problems for the smaller cities it serves.



Always Blue Sky's.....
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3324 times:

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
and American only, because they are the only airline with enough money right now to finance

You don't need money to buy anything including your competiton. You go to banks. They have the $$$. They sell money whether its for a card card transaction, financing a car or home or buying another airline. Minnows swallow
whales everyday. Can you say Texas International and Continental airlines and Mr. Lorenzo?
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineSupa7E7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3311 times:

They both ordered 787s, and long term will both order a bazillion of them. For that reason alone, (plus 757s), a merger could work. NW's Airbus fleet is large enough to be self-sufficient.

Also, both are prime candidates for giant heaps of EMB-190s.

Fleet planning wise, CO and NW are quite compatible, since both are committed Boeing fliers and soon Embraer as well.

Route planning wise, a NW/CO merger would be just exceptional.


User currently offlineDavid31998 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3283 times:

Yes, there have been other threads about the future of NW. But most of the discussions focus on routes, hubs, and common aircraft, in addition to general speculation that is all over the place. Few discussants (those who are knowledgable about NW) have directly stated their opinions about the probability of NW surviving. I have been a NW frequent flier for 10 years and still have plenty of miles with them. I have carefully read the treads on this topic, but I have been frustrated by the lack of a consensus.

So, Flywithjohn, welcome to the forum. Plenty of threads are redundant. If you don't believe me, search for "787 vs. 350." Yes, we are a contentious group, but you should stick around because there is a wealth of good information here.

Back to the original question: Will NW survive?


User currently offlineMoparman From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 411 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3283 times:

I would not like to see NW merge with CO at all. CO is an airline that knows how things are done; does them; and the same time sets decent standards for their passengers and employees. NW does neither. While their international services are okay, their domestic service is less than desirable. Perhaps it would be better if NW fades like Pan Am, or is aquired and the name vanishes. I don't know if any of you have thought about the implications of all of this: Just like in the oil industry: mergers = less competition = HIGH PRICES. Think about it!

I can see them merging with Delta, and perhaps become Delta's low cost carrier. They might even call themselves DeltaWest... who knows?? As far as merging with CO, that would be a sad day indeed. NW is a much better fit for Delta in terms of network and mentality.



"Harming a patient is unethical, but I can inflict as much pain as I like" Dr. Phlox
User currently offlineFlywithjohn From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3218 times:

Thank you David31998 It's nice to finally have joined this site. It helped me get hired at fedex believe it or not. Not going no where. I agree it's hard for everyone to have a general opinion about NW because it's has struggled for a long time. Some opinions sided by the fact it is a legacy carrier others because they don't know or have not researched it very good and weighed all factors. Another it the papers don't always do justice. My question is saying what will happen to NorthWest Airlines. Not so much the planes, routes hubs etc. I'm saying will NW have 100th anniversary. Or will it flunk out twice and be operated with Maine-Boston airways.

Whether It could merge with CO/DL the fleets are as followed-
CO-
777: 18
767-400: 16
767-200: 10
757-300: 13
757-200: 41
737-900: 12
737-800: 99
737-700: 36
737-300/-500: 111
DL-
777: 8
767-400: 21
767-300: 86
767-200: 10
757: 121
MD90: 16
MD80: 120
737-800: 71
737-300: 12
737-200: 36

These two companies could easy teamup aircraft wise this is NW aircraft-

747-400: 16
747-200: 8
747-200F: 14
A330-300: 8
A330-200: 7
DC10-30: 22
757-300: 16
757-200: 56
A320: 78
A319: 72
DC9: 150

Iformation from http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...s/airlines/airlines-2005030344.htm

NW as most know has a lot of older planes A320 family DC-9 could be self reliant due there large numbers. The 757 could work together. With the 787 coming this is replacement for DC-10. So only wide bodies would be a problem 747,777,A330 and 767 these would most likely by focused to certain routes only and DC-10 would most likely be parked. Either way from aircraft stand point the either NW/CO could merge or NW/DL could merge.
I'll go into a another topic with routes, pilot and everything else.

But this is about NorthWest Airlines. The company future, will we still see MSP filled with airplanes saying NorthWest Airlines having a red tail or will it AA,CO,DL or NewCo on them



Always Blue Sky's.....
User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1571 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3171 times:

Quoting Nwab787techops (Reply 4):
Yes, everone even Gordon would like to see CO and UA merger

Umm, no, everyone wouldn't. Ask a LOT of CO employees about it.

As for the rest of your post, I don't think, Continental would want the trouble that would come with acquiring Northwest, although I'm sure NW's employees would be a lot happier with CO-style management.



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineJano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 827 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3152 times:

Quoting Flywithjohn (Reply 12):
With the 787 coming this is replacement for DC-10.

NWA ordered 787 to enhance the network - overfly NRT, etc. A330s are replacing DC10-30s, which will be parked asap.

regarding the original question
What Most Likely With Happen To NWA?

They will get through it. Smaller, but leaner. It will be very though, but they will get through.



The Widget Air Line :)
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3058 times:

Quoting Jano (Reply 14):
NWA ordered 787 to enhance the network - overfly NRT, etc.

I Hope so. I think they also ordered them to have a competative product not just against U.S. competition but their Asian competitors. I see that if NW recovers, the 747 will actually go away and be replaced with just 787s for frequency.

Quoting Jano (Reply 14):
They will get through it. Smaller, but leaner. It will be very though, but they will get through.

I hope so. Smaller and leaner might be better. I see NW ending up as being two companies NewCo for the majority of their domestic routes and NWA for trunk routes and international.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineFlywithjohn From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2976 times:

Wow didn't notice I with instead of will now it's on the front page. Feel like I'm wearing a sign that says idiot now.....I agree that NWA will get smaller a probably be two different companies.


Always Blue Sky's.....
User currently offlineAa777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1246 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2821 times:

I don't think we will see NWA liquidate or be purchased. Their fleet is certainly quite different than many of their competitors. The only other large operator of 744s is UA, in financial straits themselves, having just emerged from chapter 11. The DC-10's are ancient and would be a liability in a merger. The A330's don't really fit in with any of the widebody, Boeing based fleets of any of the other major carriers. I think they will be forced to trim down, and they will pull through. Perhaps the currently precarious situation of the American aviation industry that drove them into this situation will, in fact, help ensure they are not overtaken.


Sic 'em bears
User currently offlineRedneckslim From Congo (Brazzaville), joined Sep 2005, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2662 times:

NWA could go to being an all gay airline, all sweet crews, limp wristed f/a's and well groomed rampers that look like the bounty quicker picker upper man! Brokeback Air with a very butch, cowboy theme.... cowboy hats with cute little pistols, and chaps! lots of chaps.... Have some total makeovers of the entire aircraft to reflect this new look, designer fabric on the seats, texture and color that sets the mood for really dandy flying! " You won't wish you could quit us" could be the motto.... yoga in flight, you get the idea!

User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2579 times:

I ran out of time to make my edit so I will post an addition to myself.

Quoting Centrair (Reply 15):
I see that if NW recovers, the 747 will actually go away and be replaced with just 787s for frequency.

I see NW ending up as being two companies NewCo for the majority of their domestic routes and NWA for trunk routes and international.

Current fleet
747
757
DC-9
DC-10
A330
A320
A319

Post BK Fleet(s)
NWA
787 - Asia Routes (frequency/overflying)
A330 - Europe and Short Asia
A320 - Domestic Mainline and Asian hopper flights
A319 - Domestic Mainline

NewCo
CRJ or EMB - Everywhere that is too small for an A319 in domestic U.S and Canada...yes Canada.

Why no 757s?
Currently NW flies these domestically and in hopper flights in Asia. They could be replaced by A320s and frequency.

The A320s would be used to expand the system they are currently using the 757s on. ie NRT-NGO-SPN, NRT-CAN, and NGO-GUM.

Why no 744s?
Currently NW's routes in Asia all go through NRT/KIX/NGO. With the 787, they can overfly Japan and do direct. The need for such volume will not be as important. They could reduce the number of flights to Tokyo by half and do the rest direct. However some flights might require something of volume. Maybe the MSP-NRT-MNL would still require a 744, however DTW-NGO-MNL could be a 787.

Over flying Japan and eliminating the 744 not only cuts maintenance costs and staffing but also landing fees at NRT slots.

Also if NW gets rid ot the queens, they have a very competitive product compared to U.S. and Asian carriers. When that product is put through the entire fleet, they have something that would be world class and operationally and cost efficient.

These are of course opinions. I love the 744 but sadly, I just don't see it sticking around in the NW fleet for much longer.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineFlywithjohn From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2545 times:

Quoting Centrair (Reply 19):
These are of course opinions. I love the 744 but sadly, I just don't see it sticking around in the NW fleet for much longer.

Well I don't know for sure if they will continue use of 744 as passenger but I'm sure they would still use it cargo they also might have them parked due to the fact that the volume increase in the winter season.

But I to love 747 period I wish FDX still used them be awsome to fly them but I like MD-11 too.



Always Blue Sky's.....
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2508 times:

FlywithJohn:

Yeah the 744s could be converted to cargo. I decided to focus on the PAX side of things.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineNwab787techops From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 219 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2342 times:

Quoting Moparman (Reply 11):
I don't know if any of you have thought about the implications of all of this: Just like in the oil industry: mergers = less competition = HIGH PRICES. Think about it!

HIGH PRICES= NWA and the airline industry flys another day.


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12250 posts, RR: 35
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2307 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting Moparman (Reply 11):
I don't know if any of you have thought about the implications of all of this: Just like in the oil industry: mergers = less competition = HIGH PRICES. Think about it!



Quoting Nwab787techops (Reply 22):
HIGH PRICES= NWA and the airline industry flys another day.

Just what I was going to say. It will suck for us consumers, not being able to fly transcon for $200, but hey, that is below the worth anyways. We will have to pay more, and maybe service will again be representative of the price paid.



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineAirforum From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2253 times:

Quoting Flywithjohn (Reply 12):
NW aircraft. DC9: 150

150 DC-9s? Wow that's a lot! Interesting figures...

 white 



What goes up, must come down. Let's hope the sky never went up.
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