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Help With A.net Aircraft Designations  
User currently offlineAviationAddict From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 610 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2845 times:
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Hi all, I'm still a little new to all of this so please bare with me while I sound like an idiot. What do the last two digits of the aircraft type designations mean? For example: 747-4H6, what does the H6 signify? Also, how do you folks know when all the various aircraft featured in the database were built, is there someplace online where I could look this stuff up? (I've yet to find anything on any of the manufacturer's websites.) Any help would be much appreciated!

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2838 times:

In Boeing a/c designations, the last two places in the series represent the customer code. For example a 737-700 series a/c delivered to AirTran would be a 737-7BD (Unless it's one of the ones leased from G.E. Capital Aviation Services, which would make it a 737-76N). Here is a site that lists all of the Boeing customer codes:

http://www.airlinecodes.co.uk/

Just click on the tab that says "Boeing Codes"


User currently offlineAviationAddict From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2834 times:
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Does the same apply to other manufacturers? I was just using the 747 as an example, but I've seen similar designations on Airbuses and other types as well. For example, Airbus A319-111. Does the 11 represent the customer code too (which in this case I would assume would be Frontier)?

[Edited 2006-02-05 17:22:35]

User currently offlineJorge1812 From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 3149 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2823 times:

Quoting AviationAddict (Reply 2):
For example, Airbus A319-111. Does the 11 represent the customer code too (which in this case I would assume would be Frontier)?

No. It's for the engine version...but I don't understood the system. IIRC LH and DE have the same engines on their A-320 but LH has the -211 and DE the -212.

Georg


User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2808 times:

To AviationAddict and all other interested parties:

The Boeing production code list is available on-line at various places; however, I have a complete list available I can send. Let me know!!  bigthumbsup 



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3306 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2792 times:

Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 3):
No. It's for the engine version...but I don't understood the system. IIRC LH and DE have the same engines on their A-320 but LH has the -211 and DE the -212.

The -212 has higher-rated engines. The A320-211 has CFM56-5A1 engines, the A320-212 has CFM56-5A3, and the A320-214 has CFM56-5B4/P engines. The same is true of the A320-231, -232, and -233, with V2527-A1 , V2527-A5, and V2527E-A5 engines, respectively.

For clarification, the Boeingcustomer code does not change if the owner changes. In some instances, an airline may cancel an order and the aircraft could be delivered to another airline, but the aircraft would keep the code of the airline that originally ordered them. This is the case with some of Virgin Atlantic's Boeing 747-400s. These are 747-443s, originally bound for Alitalia, until they cancelled the order so the aircraft were delivered to Virgin instead.

BTW, welcome to Airliners.net!  airplane 



[Edited 2006-02-05 18:30:46]

User currently offlineAviationAddict From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2737 times:
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Quoting OB1504 (Reply 5):
BTW, welcome to Airliners.net!

Thank you very much! Thank you for the clarification as well!


User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3097 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2731 times:

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 5):
For clarification, the Boeingcustomer code does not change if the owner changes. In some instances, an airline may cancel an order and the aircraft could be delivered to another airline, but the aircraft would keep the code of the airline that originally ordered them. This is the case with some of Virgin Atlantic's Boeing 747-400s. These are 747-443s, originally bound for Alitalia, until they cancelled the order so the aircraft were delivered to Virgin instead.

BTW, welcome to Airliners.net!

I'm sure Boeing has a reason for this, but can anyone explain why its so? Doesn't it make sense to use the code of the airline to whom the brand new aircraft is delivered.....?


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2702 times:

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 7):
I'm sure Boeing has a reason for this, but can anyone explain why its so? Doesn't it make sense to use the code of the airline to whom the brand new aircraft is delivered.....?

The only thing I can think of is to reflect options/customizations chosen by an owner, i.e. flight deck configuration, etc. (For example, I read somewhere that [some of] TWA's aircraft have switches that flip the opposite direction AA's aircraft)... Hypothetically speaking, if TWA had an order in prodution when they were acquired by AA and those aircraft were built with the 'reversed' switches and then delivered to AA, it would make sense to me to use TW's customer code.

It could also be some sort of compliance thing (once it starts being built as a 737-7H4 it stays a 737-7H4) but that makes a little less sense to me.

I would appreciate it if someone sets me straight  Smile

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineEGNR From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2680 times:

Quoting AviationAddict (Reply 2):
Does the same apply to other manufacturers? I was just using the 747 as an example, but I've seen similar designations on Airbuses and other types as well. For example, Airbus A319-111. Does the 11 represent the customer code too (which in this case I would assume would be Frontier)?



Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 3):
No. It's for the engine version...but I don't understood the system. IIRC LH and DE have the same engines on their A-320 but LH has the -211 and DE the -212.

Airbus model numbers are decyphered as follows...
A3XX-ABC
Obviously, A3XX is the model - e.g. A320, A330, A340, A380, etc.
'A' denotes the series of that model - e.g. A340-200, A340-300, A340-500, A340-600, etc.

'B' denotes the engine manufacturer as follows:
'0' = General Electric,
'1' = cfm International,
'2' = Pratt & Whitney,
'3' = International Aero Engines,
'4' = Rolls Royce,
'6' = Engine Alliance

Examples:

A320-111 - an A320-100 fitted with the first variant of the cfm powerplant made available on the A320.

A300-605 - an A300-600 fitted with the fifth variant of the General Electric powerplant made available on the A300.

A330-342 - an A330-300 fitted with the second variant of the Rolls Royce powerplant available on the A330 model line up.

Note: ('5' is not used - not sure why, maybe the joint venture for the engines on A400M was assigned the '5'?).

'C' denotes the variant of that engine, e.g. on the A340-500 and A340-600. Both use the Rolls Royce Trent 500, but the A340-600 uses a higher thrust variant, so we have A340-541 and A340-642.

MyTravel, Thomas Cook and Monarch all fly A330-243s with high seating capacity for IT charter work. Emirates, bmi, Etihad also fly A330-243s but with far fewer seats.

Airbus's numbering system is more like that of a car manufacturer - everybody has the same model designation (badge on the trunk), but picks their own options (configures their own interior - seat numbers, etc.).

Whereas Boeing give each customer models with their own unique numbers, e.g '7X7-X36' for British Airways, '7X7-X38' for Qantas, '7X7-XH4' for Southwest.



7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
User currently offlineJorge1812 From Germany, joined Apr 2004, 3149 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2644 times:

I understand that a B 747-430 stays a B 747-430 whatever happens to it. But what's with an Airbus? Can an A 320-211 be converted to an A 320-212 or even an (e.g.) A 320-232?

Georg


User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1915 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2618 times:

Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 10):
I understand that a B 747-430 stays a B 747-430 whatever happens to it. But what's with an Airbus? Can an A 320-211 be converted to an A 320-212 or even an (e.g.) A 320-232?

Certainly. And it has happened a number of times.
The Airbus system is in fact very simple.
You get an airframe with its weight characteristics symbolized by the first digit (for ex. -2xx) and engines symbolized by the following two digits
(for -x12).
If the airframe or the engines are modified, the three digits are modified accordingly.


User currently offlineEGNR From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 508 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2594 times:

The first A380-861 will be converted to an A380-841 for onward sale to Etihad I believe.

Also, the first A318 has had PW engines (A318-121), then it flew with cfm engines (A318-111) and is now flying again with PW engines (A318-121). However, all of the photos in the database here list A318-121 despite the different engines (in some cases, the designation on the photos is different to these two - the only designations avaialble on the A318).



7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
User currently offlineBohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2671 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2580 times:

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 7):
I'm sure Boeing has a reason for this, but can anyone explain why its so? Doesn't it make sense to use the code of the airline to whom the brand new aircraft is delivered.....?

My guess is it has a lot to do with paperwork, and there is lots of paperwork. Once a plane is ordered and cancelled, then someone else picks up the order, it would be a nightmare to change the customer number on all that paperwork.


User currently offlineDEVILFISH From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4781 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2556 times:

Quoting EGNR (Reply 12):
However, all of the photos in the database here list A318-121 despite the different engines (in some cases, the designation on the photos is different to these two - the only designations avaialble on the A318).

Could just have been missed by the caption writer. Frontier's aircraft carry -111 designation.



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2538 times:

Quoting Bohica (Reply 13):
Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 7):
I'm sure Boeing has a reason for this, but can anyone explain why its so? Doesn't it make sense to use the code of the airline to whom the brand new aircraft is delivered.....?

My guess is it has a lot to do with paperwork, and there is lots of paperwork. Once a plane is ordered and cancelled, then someone else picks up the order, it would be a nightmare to change the customer number on all that paperwork.

It has little or nothing to do with paperwork. There are structural differences between operators, one operator may have a galley in one location the other airline may have a lavatory there. The structural attachments are there for a galley or a lavatory, to convert from one to the other could take considerable time and money. One may have structural up grades to increase the GTOW and the operator doesn't. There are any number of differences between customer models.

Another thing to consider is that if an order is cancelled the manufacture my try and collect money from the canceling airline. They could say the airframe was built for them and had to be sold at a discount to another operator because of configuration differences.


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