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Airlines In Indonesia; How Are They Doing?  
User currently offlineStevenG From Netherlands, joined Oct 2005, 99 posts, RR: 0
Posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5441 times:

Every now and then topics appear in this forum on aviation in Indonesia where new carriers appear and others go belly up fast.

As I am planning to go to Indonesia in April/May I am trying to find out which airliners are still in business. Of course GA. They have a proper website, although online-booking is still impossible.
IIRC Bouraq is out of business while Merpati and Mandala are almost. Lion Air is one of the unreliable carriers in terms of safety and flight schedules. If they have/had websites, they hardly work at all or are incredibly slow. Adam Air can’t provide any information on timetables and booking as well.

Could some-one provide me with information the current state of the Indonesian airliners and their respective websites? Or direct me to a place where the most accurate information can be found?

Then another question. About a year ago there was a topic in this forum on a mega order from Lion Air for 737NG’s. This order made it even to CNN-text. Unfortunately the topic ended up in a Airbus vs Boeing flame war but some here doubted if the order would make it all due to the financial troubles the company was facing and several of their business plans that ended up in nothing. I am curious how things worked out since then. Does anyone know?

Regards,
Steven

15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5414 times:

CO's GUM-DPS not doing so well even at 2x per week...may be Dropped  Sad

Japanese pax are kinda scarred to go...


User currently offlineFlyjetstar From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5411 times:

This story was in The Age, Melbourne Australia, newspaper today.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/busine...rket/2006/02/05/1139074107787.html

This as the story suggests might be an opportunistic move by QF or a reflection of some financial assistance needed.


User currently offlineAfterburner From Indonesia, joined Jun 2005, 1209 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5398 times:

Hi Steven,

I try to give you some information about some of Indonesian airlines (although I know that there are members of this forum who can do this better than I do. HB-IWC is one of them).

Merpati:
I don't think the government will allow Merpati to go bust. There are a lot of remote areas in Indonesia that are accessible (conveniently) only by air. And Merpati fly there.

Lion Air:
They are the launch customer of Boeing 737-900ER with at least 30 orders.
http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/i_ca5.html

Adam Air:
Qantas wants to buy 30 percent of stake in them but Adam Air only wants to sell 20 percent. Qantas will also lend them 37 Boeing 737-400. Indonesian government has given permission to Qantas to do this.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/busine...rket/2006/02/05/1139074107787.html
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news...&sid=adokJKkmqJdU&refer=news_index

Batavia Air:
They just received their first A319, the first Airbus narrow-body for an Indonesian airline. The aircraft will be use for Guangzhou and some local cities routes.

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Awair:
Now they have become Indonesia AirAsia. Now use several Boeing 737-300s.

[Edited 2006-02-06 05:21:24]

User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4502 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

One word for airlines in Indonesia these days: struggling. If you would like to be more or less assured you will reach your destination more or less on time, I'd advize you to go for Garuda. With multiple daily frequencies on most domestic routes, Garuda is as good as you're bound to get in Indonesian aviation.

As for the others, a couple of them have gone tits up (Bouraq, Jatayu), and others are on life support (Mandala, Merpati bailed out again by the government), while others are notoriously unreliable (Lion and offspring Wings, and increasingly also Adam Air).

Domestic fares tend to go up and down on a seasonal basis, so don't expect to get anything el cheapo around long weekends and public holidays. During off peak seasons, there are some really sweet deals, even on Garuda. As for booking online, you are restricted to Air Asia Indonesia, which serves limited domestic sectors. If not, you can always contact some of the Jakarta-based members of the forum here and see what's possible.


User currently offlineStevenG From Netherlands, joined Oct 2005, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5255 times:

Thank you for sharing this information!
I will get into contact as soon as my plans are more concrete.


User currently offlinePtrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3921 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5222 times:

Steven,

Pelita Air is supposed to be a reliable airline also (and my flight with them last October was OK). Online booking? I had to pay cash even in Denpasar  Smile

Merpati is notorious for cancelling flights just for lack of pax.

Peter



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineEasyHoliday From Indonesia, joined Jan 2006, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5185 times:

Hi Steven,

I always suggest my pax to travel with Garuda, they are the most reliable right now. And plus their newest aircraft B737-800 with winglets arrived. And serving the last flight out of Jakarta to Surabaya. It's a very beautiful aircraft in GA livery.
Merpati: Even I avoid that airlines if possible, unless you need to travel within Sumatra or Celebes island, sometimes they are the only choice.
Lion: Lots of complains from my pax. Plus the unsafe image it has.
Batavia: Only 1 complain I received so far. Which was from myself  Smile I was travelling Semarang-Jakarta, the incoming aircraft blew its tire on landing. We were not informed when we would depart and what happened. A 1 hour journey turned into 3 hours waiting on the ground. I demanded refund. After another hour of hard arguing (they even told me it was my fault that I chose their airline) they finally gave my money back. And told me not the let the other pax know about the refund. You know what I did, I told the whole pax in the lounge about it. 30 people marched to the office and demanded refund.
Adam Air: No complain I received so far.
Pelita: Used to be okay, but notorious to cancel flight at last minute. My company statistics say out of 10 flights we sold, 7 got cancelled. So we are avoiding this airline right now.
Bouraq: Bankrupt. My family friend owned this airline. The owner told us that the sales force was so corrupt. The last blow was during November 2004 when they sold only 10% of their capacity on all routes even though it was holiday time. The sales people hold the seats telling the pax they were full so that they can sell the seats above the company fare rules. So nobody wanted to pay that much. In return out of 10 flights, they cancelled 8 at some of the days.
Hope this helps you.

Best regards,
Steven


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4502 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5180 times:

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 6):
Pelita Air is supposed to be a reliable airline also

As far as I know, Pelita is no longer operating scheduled flights. As a matter of fact, I wonder whether Pelita is operating at all these days. They used to offer quite comfy flights, though.


User currently offlinePtrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3921 posts, RR: 18
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5092 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 8):
As far as I know, Pelita is no longer operating scheduled flights.

Gee, things change fast. I flew with them last October.



The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineViasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1873 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5031 times:

I was there in december an i had the pleasure to be onboard of three different airlines.

1st leg: DPS - SUB with Nusantara Air Charter F28-4000
2nd leg: SUB - CGK with Sriwijaya Air B737-200
3rd leg: CGK - DPS with Batavia Air B737-200

Indonesia and it's airlines (only which are in business)*:

  • Adam Air: 7 B732, 3 B733, 8 B734, 1 B735 (normal ops, large network)
  • Air Efata: 2 MD-88 (new in business, only some routes)
  • Airfast Indonesia: 2 MD-82 (not sure if they operate still schedule services)
  • Batavia Air: 2 A319, 17 B732, 1 B733, 4 B734, 1 F28 (normal ops, large network, is the F28 still in service?)
  • CardigAir: 3 B732 (is this a cargo or a pax airline?)
  • Garuda Indonesia: 6 A333, 14 B733, 26 B734, 5 B735, 1 B738, 3 B744 (normal ops)
  • GA Citilink: 3 B733 (would chance it's fleet to 10 A319)
  • Gatari Air Service: 5 F28 (not all in service, new operator on schedule flights)
  • Indonesia Air Asia: 5 B733 (former Awair, normal operations)
  • Jatayu Air: 1 B722 (only one 727 in service, all other planes are stored)
  • Kartika Air: 2 B732 (maybe more B732, back in service)
  • Lion Air: 5 B734, 10 MD-82, 1 MD-83, 5 MD-90 (normal ops, large network together with Wings Air)
  • Mandala Airlines: 1 B722, 12 B732, 2 B734 (normal ops, large network, new nice colors!, is the B722 still in service?)
  • Merpati: 8 B732, 2 B733, 1 F28 and smalle planes (reduced ops, but would grow with more planes, more planes are stored at SUB and CGK)
  • Nusantara Air Charter: 2 F28 ("new" in service, only some routes)
  • Pelita Air: 2 F28, 2 F100 and small planes (not sure if they really operate schedule flights, KALstar was/is the brand for this flights)
  • Riau Airlines: 2 F50 (only some routes)
  • Sriwijaya Air: 10 B732 (large network, normal ops)
  • Transwisata Air: 4 F50, 2 F28, 1 F100 (no informations)
  • Trigana Air Service: 5 ATR42, 1 ATR 72 (no informations)
  • Wings Air: 7 MD-82, 3 DHC-8-300 (see Lion Air)
  • Xpressair.com 3 B732 (no informations)
  • more airlines with smaller planes


* only count the planes which are in service (not leased out to other carriers).



User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4502 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4976 times:

Very accurate list there, well done! We would need Mandala499 here to give us an insight into some of the details of these airlines and their active fleets.

Quoting Viasa (Reply 10):
Batavia Air: 2 A319, 17 B732, 1 B733, 4 B734, 1 F28 (normal ops, large network, is the F28 still in service?)

I flew the F28 around 3 months back. I don't know whether it is still around these days. It used to fly daily Pontianak-Jogjakarta-Surabaya and back, and that flight offered the best timed JOG-SUB.

Quoting Viasa (Reply 10):
Indonesia Air Asia: 5 B733 (former Awair, normal operations)

I'm not sure they are already up to 5 airframes. They have been flying a reduced schedule in the past couple of weeks, so I think it's only 4 at the moment. This number is bound to go up as Air Asia takes delivery of more A320s and the B733s are deployed in Indonesia.

Quoting Viasa (Reply 10):
Kartika Air: 2 B732 (maybe more B732, back in service)

They might be operating 3 airframes by now, as they have been adding some routes lately. Nobody really knows what's going on at that airline. I read that they plan to build their fleet to 5 B732s as soon as possible.

Quoting Viasa (Reply 10):
Mandala Airlines: 1 B722, 12 B732, 2 B734 (normal ops, large network, new nice colors!, is the B722 still in service?)

The B722 is definitely not in service. It is stored at CGK. I also very much doubt that Mandala is operating all of its 12 remaining B732s right now. Here's an airline in trouble.

Quoting Viasa (Reply 10):
Lion Air: 5 B734, 10 MD-82, 1 MD-83, 5 MD-90 (normal ops, large network together with Wings Air)



Quoting Viasa (Reply 10):
Wings Air: 7 MD-82, 3 DHC-8-300 (see Lion Air)

The question with Lion and Wings really is which airframes are currently operational. There have been a couple of incidents again, and some of their planes have been sitting idle at CGK and other places. Also, some MD80s are deployed abroad. I don't know what's happening to the Dash fleet. Last thing I heard was that there was only one airframe operational. It is clear though that the combined active fleet of Lion and Wings is lower than the 31 frames mentioned.


User currently offlineViasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1873 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4953 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 11):
I don't know what's happening to the Dash fleet.

I see often the Wings Dash-8 aircrafts landed at DPS, but I'm not sure if it's only one airframes or more.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 11):
It is clear though that the combined active fleet of Lion and Wings is lower than the 31 frames mentioned.

Really? One more MD-82 (Wings) is stored at CGK and it's maybe W/O. Two more Lion Air B734 are leased to Pacific Airlines (Vietnam) and two more MD-82 are also leased to MAI - Myanmar Airways Intl.

I have also a B732 (PK-LIA) on my list (but stored at CGK). Is this a back-up aircraft or is it permanently stored there?

Does anybody knows more about CardigAir? I was very surprised as I see the first B732 of this new company at CGK on 22 december 2005. I think it's a cargo operator but I'm not sure.

A tourist-guide on the lovely island of Bali told me, that Air Paradise Intl. would be back in service in the second half of 2006 (with a new fleet). But I'm not sure if this is the truth or just an idea of this man... Only one A310 is left at DPS.


User currently offlinePtrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3921 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4936 times:

Quoting Viasa (Reply 10):
Pelita Air: 2 F28, 2 F100 and small planes (not sure if they really operate schedule flights, KALstar was/is the brand for this flights)

On 6 October 2005 I was on a Denpasar-Bima-Ende-Kupang scheduled flight. There were indeed small KalStar markings on the F28, but the ticket counter at DPS was the Pelita counter.

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Quoting Viasa (Reply 10):
Trigana Air Service: 5 ATR42, 1 ATR 72 (no informations)

One of these ATR42s also had KalStar markings in late 2004.
Another one is being operated by Trans Nusa Air, a one-horse airline from Kupang, Timor.


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The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4502 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4930 times:

Quoting Viasa (Reply 12):
I see often the Wings Dash-8 aircrafts landed at DPS, but I'm not sure if it's only one airframes or more.

The 3-strong Dash-8 fleet has been involved in all kinds of operations. They have been based at Jakarta for flights to Bandung and Lampung. Later they were based at Manado, North Sulawesi, when Lion operated a mini hub there with flights to smaller towns in Sulawesi, islands in the vicinity as well as flights to places in North Maluku and Papua. After that, they were moved back to Jakarta and later to Denpasar for a regular Bali-Lombok shuttle. As far as I know, that set up is still going on, but could be taken care of with just one aircraft.

At some point during the Manado operation, at least one and probably 2 of the aircraft were effectively out of operation because some technical issues and a dispute between Lion and leasing company as to who would fit the repair bill.

Quoting Viasa (Reply 12):
I have also a B732 (PK-LIA) on my list (but stored at CGK). Is this a back-up aircraft or is it permanently stored there?

PK-LIA is definitely not a back up aircraft. It was involved in some incident a couple of years ago and has been the object of a prolonged dispute involving Lion, the leasing company and some insurance company.

Quoting Viasa (Reply 12):
A tourist-guide on the lovely island of Bali told me, that Air Paradise Intl. would be back in service in the second half of 2006 (with a new fleet). But I'm not sure if this is the truth or just an idea of this man... Only one A310 is left at DPS.

Wishful thinking on behalf of the man...

Quoting Viasa (Reply 12):
Really? One more MD-82 (Wings) is stored at CGK and it's maybe W/O. Two more Lion Air B734 are leased to Pacific Airlines (Vietnam) and two more MD-82 are also leased to MAI - Myanmar Airways Intl.

The fact is that the operation Lion/Wings is currently running at CGK does not warrant an extensive fleet as described in your list. Frequncies have gone downhill for over a year now, and flights are often cancelled for all kinds of (non-) reasons.

I am impressed about your thorough knowledge of the Indonesian domestic aviation scene though. Even for insiders here in Jakarta, it is often impossible to keep track.


User currently offlineViasa From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 1873 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4847 times:

Quoting Viasa (Reply 10):
Jatayu Air: 1 B722 (only one 727 in service, all other planes are stored)

Now they have two B722 in service.


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