Orion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3434 times:
I was always a fan of the ATP. It was such a good looking aircraft, more so than the ATR72. I often wonder why the aircraft proved to be not very popular and why so many were retired prematurely from passenger service.
I remember British Midland ordering the ATP and it seemed an ideal aircraft for many of their regional routes but they did not last very long with BD.
Likewise BACitiexpress retired the ATP yet still to the day flies Dash8-300s.
The 748 was an aircaft with extreme longevity so why did the ATP fail and are there any in regular passenger service?
I know some still fly as cargo aircraft but do Air Europa still use the ATP? or SATA Acores?
The ATP striked me as being an excellent aircraft for Eastern. Particularly complimenting the J31 and J41. Why was the Saab chosen over the ATP, which surely could have been obtained quite readily and cheaply?
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4386 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3394 times:
Quoting Amy (Reply 1): Loganair and Sun Air (both BA franchise partners) still operate ATP.
Not correct ! Loganair parked theirs in sping 2005 in favor of more Saab 340s, while Sun-Air withdrew the last in january 2006 in favor of Do-328s. So if you want to get on a passenger flight, SATA and Asian Spirit are the only possibilities!
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
Milesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2019 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3345 times:
When Air Wisconsin, United Express, operated the ATP, the joke was that ATP did not stand for Advanced Turbo Prop, but rather for, ANOTHER TECHNICAL PROBLEM. Actually, they were a nice airplane to fly in, as long as the weather was good. In bad weather, they all bounce around and are vomit comets, with the exception of the Queen of Turboprops, the L-188 Electra, one of the most comfortable aircraft to ever grace the skies.
Ca2ohhp From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3264 times:
Quoting Milesrich (Reply 3): When Air Wisconsin, United Express, operated the ATP, the joke was that ATP did not stand for Advanced Turbo Prop, but rather for, ANOTHER TECHNICAL PROBLEM.
Yeah I remember having to work them. They were horrible as far as loading luggage and being weight restricted. You had to open the rear emergency hatch, climb into the galley, and open the bulkhead in the tailcone, and load bags in it. I used to call it the flying sandbox because it always needed ballast.
Skymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3204 times:
ATP stood for "Another Technical Problem" or "Alternative Transport Provided". Rather unreliable in British Midland service, they weren't too bad to fly on, but rather noisy at the front of the cabin which was fairly near the prop discs. As a pax I always preferred the Dash-7 on the EMA-LHR route - the Dash was a MUCH nicer passenger a/c. Westair have instigated a new maintenance regime which supposedly addresses and deals with many of the reliability issues that plagued the type's early years of service.
Door5Right From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 707 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3191 times:
Quoting MD90fan (Reply 4): Whats the relationship between the J-61 and ATP?
BAe renamed the ATP the Jetstream 61 as a marketing device to help sell a "family" of aircraft, the Jetstream 31, 41 and 61 (the ATP).
Although prone to a few technical problems, the ATP was surprising comfortable for passengers, particularily if seated in the last three or four rows. The rows between the engines, however, were rather noisy. I always enjoy my BA flights in the ATP when it flew several UK domestic routes.
Tristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4090 posts, RR: 33
Reply 10, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3182 times:
Come to ARN any weekday night and you will see West Air Sweden flying the Post. About ten assorted ATPs and 748's operate in and out from 2300 to 0500. When I get to work at 0515 there is usually a HS748 starting up outside T3 with the last post departure. Lovely sound.
Jmc757 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2000, 1303 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3029 times:
Quoting Yak97 (Reply 5): Atlantic Airlines in CVT are just about to start operating ATP's in freight role.
Atlantic are having a lot of trouble with their ATPs. They still haven't started flying yet and are now quite delayed. Every time they try to take them for a check flight something else goes wrong. And judging by what has been said here; this is now a new problem for the ATP!
Skidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3012 times:
Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 2): So if you want to get on a passenger flight, SATA and Asian Spirit are the only possibilities!
And Euromanx/Emerald - until June at the moment, but with 3W getting rid of their Do328's and RJ70's they could end up with the 2 ATP's for a while longer.
And Eastern use J41's because they A) Got the job lot on an excellent deal from BRAL/BACX and B) They are ideal for the routes they fly and the loads they achieve. The ATP wasn't in the frame at any stage. The SAAB 2000 is a far better aeroplane than the ATP and is proving itself on Easterns routes.
YOW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2929 times:
Quoting Ca2ohhp (Reply 7): Yeah I remember having to work them. They were horrible as far as loading luggage and being weight restricted. You had to open the rear emergency hatch, climb into the galley, and open the bulkhead in the tailcone, and load bags in it. I used to call it the flying sandbox because it always needed ballast.
Loads the same way as a Hawker 748, cool, never knew that.
Leezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4042 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2891 times:
Quoting Egmcman (Reply 18): Is the ATP the only propliner that can use air bridges?
A woman I used to work with many years ago, punctured the side of the fuselage on a BD ATP with an airbridge at LHR !!!. She was looking at the bottom of the jetty to line it up with the door (which is standard for a jetty driver) but didn't notice that the stupid little guide wheels the jetty's had back then were on the side of the a/c higher up (due to the smaller more cylindrical fuselage on the ATP). As she was moving the jetty forward, as it was still some distance from the door sill, one of these guide wheels burst the fuselage on one of the "Cut Here" panels by the flight deck !!. OOPS !!!.
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
ATCRick From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 772 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2861 times:
wasn't there a major problem with the ATP's? Something about engines shutting off flying through weather or something like that? I don't remember the specifics. All I know, is that when UFS operated them out of ORD they were pieces of sierra.
Ca2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 11 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2828 times:
Quoting ATCRick (Reply 22): wasn't there a major problem with the ATP's? Something about engines shutting off flying through weather or something like that? I don't remember the specifics. All I know, is that when UFS operated them out of ORD they were pieces of sierra.
Not that I recall. UFS couldn't take care of a golf cart, let alone an airplane. Back when Air Wisconsin still operated the famous KOSH-KATW roundtrip (19 nautical miles), an ATP lost an engine on climb out of KOSH, but continued on to KATW as that is ZW headquarters and MX base for ATP's at the time. What I recall mechanics saying was its a great airplane to fly on, but just sucked to fix. Something about spare parts being custom produced also jacked costs on the type up.
I know the EMB-120 was grounded because of an engine issue in part because of the crash of ASA flight 2311, but I don't recall that of the ATP.
This aircraft began life as G-BMYM with British Midland and was transferred to Manx airlines in 1993. To honour the retirement of a well known Manx Airlines staff member, in accounts I believe, the aircraft was re-registered in her name: G-MAUD.
After a year or two she saw service again for British Midland before returning to Manx airlines in 1997 when Manx began operating as the BA franchise British Regional Airlines.
The same year saw her painted in the "Blue Poole" BA colour scheme and for many years this aircraft was a familiar sight at regional airports all over the UK on the BA/Manx/British Regional routes.
It was lovely of Manx, a small airline with a big heart (and still missed by many loyal fans) to have a nice human touch in naming this aircraft after an employee.
[Edited 2006-02-06 20:12:25]
My soul is in the sky...
: [quote=Door5Right,reply=24] G-MAUD is at SEN in storage at the moment.
26 David L
: Yes and production was moved to Prestwick (WOOHOO!) shortly before it was cancelled (D'OH!).
: Give the old girl a wave from me when you next pass by!
: SAS Q-400 uses airbridge - at least they did when they flew to BLL
: I always wondered how BAe managed to drop the ball with ATP. Think of their heritage; Viscount-first turboprop and successful with it. Vanguard-while
: Air Wisc used to use the jetbridge on their DO-328's. I seem to recall the Eagle's ATR's using something like the turbo-ramps that SKywest uses now,
: No it wasn't a shame. Pretty much everyone was pleased to be shot of them when they were dumped on Manx. Aside from the reliability problems (they we
: I started working in aviation 12 years ago with BD. This was the very first Midland aircraft I was on. Very noisy on the ground, but it was a dream in
: When you say Manx, you actually mean another company within the ABH group. ABH = Airlines of Britain Holdings Ltd. Manx, Loganair, British Midland we
: Ah, G-MAUD. She had an awful reputation in the hangar at Ronaldsway after arriving for an E check usually 5 days - and going out about a month later!
: The ATP is a fairly modern aircraft though. It had 'new' engines, glass cockpit and the like. If it is anything like its daddy the 748, it should have
: We often wondered why they didn't move the dash/hypen in the registration from its correct position so that instead it was inbetween the T and the P o
: They are nearing 20 years old but thats young compared to how long the predecessor the 748 and BDs Viscounts lasted!! They are no older than many ATR4
: Orion, did you ever fly on them? They were dreadful things. I talk from experience - check above to see the number of times I've flown on ATPs. I hav
: Trust me....as far as the ones operated here in the US(few I agree) it was junk.
: I am suprised to hear of the aircraft's reliability problems. Particularly as its predecessor the 748 was such a workhorse and still reliable into old
: The 748 was, and still is a very robust aircraft with simple engines (Darts). The ATP was stretched, "improved", more complicated and with less relia
: Sigh! No it wasn't... I said above (reply 36) which routes the ATPs operated - I forgot BHX-BRU though. The ATPs were never on EMA-GLA (except for a
: Perchance does this refer to the Captain of the same name?
: You seem to struggle to differentiate between a 'pretty' looking aircraft, and an effective piece of equipment for an airline. Many aircraft look fan
: Your right, it does seem to have been unpopular with both passengers and airlines alike. I suppose the fact that so few remain in passenger service th
: No they are G-JEME ex S2-ACY and G-JEMD ex S2-ACX at Emerlad Airways.
: I wouldnt be suprised if Emerald had problems with those ex Biman ATPs. They were inactive at Biman for awhile awaiting sale.
: Hi Servaas, Could you or someone else please confirm that! Was planing another attempt to get a Sun-Air ATP flight in Marts. According to BA/Amadeus
: I think the agreement runs out in June or sometime similar. Yes, we get both A & C in on a daily basis. They do either the LPL or MAN runs. Or anywhe
: Thought this needed some quick action, so I booked myself a daytrip to the Isle of Man. EUR 145 all included with a schedule as follows Wednesday 15
: Wow! Visitors two days running!! Capital146 on the 16th, and your good self on the 15th. I'm stunned! And all just a day after my birthday! A large b
: According to Aviation Letter, a quite reliable magazine, all three were parked in december and early january. Makes sort of sense as they got a lot o
: Perhaps the root of the lack of success with ATP goes back a long way, before the aircraft was even conceived. R/R's bankruptcy in 1971, due mostly to