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Bae ATPs- are they In Service?  
User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3381 times:

I was always a fan of the ATP. It was such a good looking aircraft, more so than the ATR72. I often wonder why the aircraft proved to be not very popular and why so many were retired prematurely from passenger service.

I remember British Midland ordering the ATP and it seemed an ideal aircraft for many of their regional routes but they did not last very long with BD.

Likewise BACitiexpress retired the ATP yet still to the day flies Dash8-300s.

The 748 was an aircaft with extreme longevity so why did the ATP fail and are there any in regular passenger service?

I know some still fly as cargo aircraft but do Air Europa still use the ATP? or SATA Acores?

The ATP striked me as being an excellent aircraft for Eastern. Particularly complimenting the J31 and J41. Why was the Saab chosen over the ATP, which surely could have been obtained quite readily and cheaply?

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAmy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 1150 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3377 times:

Loganair and Sun Air (both BA franchise partners) still operate ATP.


A340-300 - slow, but awesome!
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4358 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3341 times:

Quoting Amy (Reply 1):
Loganair and Sun Air (both BA franchise partners) still operate ATP.

Not correct ! Loganair parked theirs in sping 2005 in favor of more Saab 340s, while Sun-Air withdrew the last in january 2006 in favor of Do-328s. So if you want to get on a passenger flight, SATA and Asian Spirit are the only possibilities!



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineMilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2012 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3292 times:

When Air Wisconsin, United Express, operated the ATP, the joke was that ATP did not stand for Advanced Turbo Prop, but rather for, ANOTHER TECHNICAL PROBLEM. Actually, they were a nice airplane to fly in, as long as the weather was good. In bad weather, they all bounce around and are vomit comets, with the exception of the Queen of Turboprops, the L-188 Electra, one of the most comfortable aircraft to ever grace the skies.

User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3282 times:

Whats the relationship between the J-61 and ATP?


http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineYak97 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3238 times:

Emerald Airways (LPL) operate the ATP to IOM on contract with Euromanx.

They also have a freighter (non-large freight door) operating LBG-MRS on contract.

West Air Sweden operate a large fleet of ATP's in freight fit (both LFD & normal door).

Atlantic Airlines in CVT are just about to start operating ATP's in freight role.


User currently offlineYak97 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3236 times:

I believe Eastern chose the Saab 2000 as the ATP is too slow over longer sectors. Also a bit bigger 66 seats against 50 seats on 2000.

User currently offlineCa2ohhp From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3211 times:

Quoting Milesrich (Reply 3):
When Air Wisconsin, United Express, operated the ATP, the joke was that ATP did not stand for Advanced Turbo Prop, but rather for, ANOTHER TECHNICAL PROBLEM.

Yeah I remember having to work them. They were horrible as far as loading luggage and being weight restricted. You had to open the rear emergency hatch, climb into the galley, and open the bulkhead in the tailcone, and load bags in it. I used to call it the flying sandbox because it always needed ballast.


User currently offlineSkymonster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3151 times:

ATP stood for "Another Technical Problem" or "Alternative Transport Provided". Rather unreliable in British Midland service, they weren't too bad to fly on, but rather noisy at the front of the cabin which was fairly near the prop discs. As a pax I always preferred the Dash-7 on the EMA-LHR route - the Dash was a MUCH nicer passenger a/c. Westair have instigated a new maintenance regime which supposedly addresses and deals with many of the reliability issues that plagued the type's early years of service.

A


User currently offlineDoor5Right From United Kingdom, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 707 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3138 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 4):
Whats the relationship between the J-61 and ATP?

BAe renamed the ATP the Jetstream 61 as a marketing device to help sell a "family" of aircraft, the Jetstream 31, 41 and 61 (the ATP).

Although prone to a few technical problems, the ATP was surprising comfortable for passengers, particularily if seated in the last three or four rows. The rows between the engines, however, were rather noisy. I always enjoy my BA flights in the ATP when it flew several UK domestic routes.



My soul is in the sky...
User currently offlineTristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4068 posts, RR: 33
Reply 10, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3129 times:

Come to ARN any weekday night and you will see West Air Sweden flying the Post. About ten assorted ATPs and 748's operate in and out from 2300 to 0500. When I get to work at 0515 there is usually a HS748 starting up outside T3 with the last post departure. Lovely sound.

User currently offlineEgmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3110 times:

Quoting Orion737 (Thread starter):
but do Air Europa still use the ATP?

No they exist any more IIRC they ceased flying late 2001 or 2002.


User currently offlineOrion737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3092 times:

BD were very enthusiastic about the ATP when they were the first airline to place an order. They raved about the large turboprop and its suitability for their network.

In fact, BD were thinking the ATP would prove as popular and serve BD as well and for as long as the Viscount before it. Shame they were so short in service with BD.


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3024 times:

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 11):
No they exist any more IIRC they ceased flying late 2001 or 2002.

Air Europa still fly intra European and Spanish domestic routes.



[Edited 2006-02-06 14:23:57]


Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineEgmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3014 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 13):
Air Europa still fly intra European and Spanish domestic routes

Yes UX mainline, but not the Express division that operated the ATP's.


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3000 times:

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 14):

Ah right, I stand corrected. Big grin



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineJmc757 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2000, 1301 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2976 times:

Quoting Yak97 (Reply 5):
Atlantic Airlines in CVT are just about to start operating ATP's in freight role.

Atlantic are having a lot of trouble with their ATPs. They still haven't started flying yet and are now quite delayed. Every time they try to take them for a check flight something else goes wrong. And judging by what has been said here; this is now a new problem for the ATP!


User currently offlineSkidmarks From UK - England, joined Dec 2004, 7121 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2959 times:

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 2):
So if you want to get on a passenger flight, SATA and Asian Spirit are the only possibilities!

And Euromanx/Emerald - until June at the moment, but with 3W getting rid of their Do328's and RJ70's they could end up with the 2 ATP's for a while longer.

And Eastern use J41's because they A) Got the job lot on an excellent deal from BRAL/BACX and B) They are ideal for the routes they fly and the loads they achieve. The ATP wasn't in the frame at any stage. The SAAB 2000 is a far better aeroplane than the ATP and is proving itself on Easterns routes.

Andy  old 



Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
User currently offlineEgmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2909 times:

Is the ATP the only propliner that can use air bridges?

User currently offlineYOW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2876 times:

Quoting Ca2ohhp (Reply 7):
Yeah I remember having to work them. They were horrible as far as loading luggage and being weight restricted. You had to open the rear emergency hatch, climb into the galley, and open the bulkhead in the tailcone, and load bags in it. I used to call it the flying sandbox because it always needed ballast.

Loads the same way as a Hawker 748, cool, never knew that.


User currently offlineCa2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2843 times:

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 18):
Is the ATP the only propliner that can use air bridges?

I believe Saab 340/2000 can. American Eagle used to bring air bridges to their ATR's at KORD and numerous field stations.


User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4042 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2838 times:

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 18):
Is the ATP the only propliner that can use air bridges?

A woman I used to work with many years ago, punctured the side of the fuselage on a BD ATP with an airbridge at LHR !!!. She was looking at the bottom of the jetty to line it up with the door (which is standard for a jetty driver) but didn't notice that the stupid little guide wheels the jetty's had back then were on the side of the a/c higher up (due to the smaller more cylindrical fuselage on the ATP). As she was moving the jetty forward, as it was still some distance from the door sill, one of these guide wheels burst the fuselage on one of the "Cut Here" panels by the flight deck !!. OOPS !!!.

 Smile



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offlineATCRick From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 772 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2808 times:

wasn't there a major problem with the ATP's? Something about engines shutting off flying through weather or something like that? I don't remember the specifics. All I know, is that when UFS operated them out of ORD they were pieces of sierra.


natch!!
User currently offlineCa2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2775 times:

Quoting ATCRick (Reply 22):
wasn't there a major problem with the ATP's? Something about engines shutting off flying through weather or something like that? I don't remember the specifics. All I know, is that when UFS operated them out of ORD they were pieces of sierra.

Not that I recall. UFS couldn't take care of a golf cart, let alone an airplane. Back when Air Wisconsin still operated the famous KOSH-KATW roundtrip (19 nautical miles), an ATP lost an engine on climb out of KOSH, but continued on to KATW as that is ZW headquarters and MX base for ATP's at the time. What I recall mechanics saying was its a great airplane to fly on, but just sucked to fix. Something about spare parts being custom produced also jacked costs on the type up.
I know the EMB-120 was grounded because of an engine issue in part because of the crash of ASA flight 2311, but I don't recall that of the ATP.


User currently offlineDoor5Right From United Kingdom, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 707 posts, RR: 16
Reply 24, posted (8 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2771 times:

No mention of the ATP would be complete without the well known G-MAUD.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Garry Lewis - AirTeamImages



This aircraft began life as G-BMYM with British Midland and was transferred to Manx airlines in 1993. To honour the retirement of a well known Manx Airlines staff member, in accounts I believe, the aircraft was re-registered in her name: G-MAUD.

After a year or two she saw service again for British Midland before returning to Manx airlines in 1997 when Manx began operating as the BA franchise British Regional Airlines.

The same year saw her painted in the "Blue Poole" BA colour scheme and for many years this aircraft was a familiar sight at regional airports all over the UK on the BA/Manx/British Regional routes.

It was lovely of Manx, a small airline with a big heart (and still missed by many loyal fans) to have a nice human touch in naming this aircraft after an employee.

[Edited 2006-02-06 20:12:25]


My soul is in the sky...
25 Egmcman : [quote=Door5Right,reply=24] G-MAUD is at SEN in storage at the moment.
26 David L : Yes and production was moved to Prestwick (WOOHOO!) shortly before it was cancelled (D'OH!).
27 Door5Right : Give the old girl a wave from me when you next pass by!
28 747400F : SAS Q-400 uses airbridge - at least they did when they flew to BLL
29 GDB : I always wondered how BAe managed to drop the ball with ATP. Think of their heritage; Viscount-first turboprop and successful with it. Vanguard-while
30 CWAFlyer : Air Wisc used to use the jetbridge on their DO-328's. I seem to recall the Eagle's ATR's using something like the turbo-ramps that SKywest uses now,
31 Skymonster : No it wasn't a shame. Pretty much everyone was pleased to be shot of them when they were dumped on Manx. Aside from the reliability problems (they we
32 Post contains links and images BDKLEZ : I started working in aviation 12 years ago with BD. This was the very first Midland aircraft I was on. Very noisy on the ground, but it was a dream in
33 BDKLEZ : When you say Manx, you actually mean another company within the ABH group. ABH = Airlines of Britain Holdings Ltd. Manx, Loganair, British Midland we
34 Post contains images Skidmarks : Ah, G-MAUD. She had an awful reputation in the hangar at Ronaldsway after arriving for an E check usually 5 days - and going out about a month later!
35 Orion737 : The ATP is a fairly modern aircraft though. It had 'new' engines, glass cockpit and the like. If it is anything like its daddy the 748, it should have
36 Post contains links and images Skymonster : We often wondered why they didn't move the dash/hypen in the registration from its correct position so that instead it was inbetween the T and the P o
37 Orion737 : They are nearing 20 years old but thats young compared to how long the predecessor the 748 and BDs Viscounts lasted!! They are no older than many ATR4
38 Post contains images Skymonster : Orion, did you ever fly on them? They were dreadful things. I talk from experience - check above to see the number of times I've flown on ATPs. I hav
39 ATCRick : Trust me....as far as the ones operated here in the US(few I agree) it was junk.
40 Orion737 : I am suprised to hear of the aircraft's reliability problems. Particularly as its predecessor the 748 was such a workhorse and still reliable into old
41 Post contains images Skidmarks : The 748 was, and still is a very robust aircraft with simple engines (Darts). The ATP was stretched, "improved", more complicated and with less relia
42 Skymonster : Sigh! No it wasn't... I said above (reply 36) which routes the ATPs operated - I forgot BHX-BRU though. The ATPs were never on EMA-GLA (except for a
43 Door5Right : Perchance does this refer to the Captain of the same name?
44 7LBAC111 : You seem to struggle to differentiate between a 'pretty' looking aircraft, and an effective piece of equipment for an airline. Many aircraft look fan
45 Orion737 : Your right, it does seem to have been unpopular with both passengers and airlines alike. I suppose the fact that so few remain in passenger service th
46 Egmcman : No they are G-JEME ex S2-ACY and G-JEMD ex S2-ACX at Emerlad Airways.
47 Orion737 : I wouldnt be suprised if Emerald had problems with those ex Biman ATPs. They were inactive at Biman for awhile awaiting sale.
48 Post contains links Canberra : Hi Servaas, Could you or someone else please confirm that! Was planing another attempt to get a Sun-Air ATP flight in Marts. According to BA/Amadeus
49 Post contains images Skidmarks : I think the agreement runs out in June or sometime similar. Yes, we get both A & C in on a daily basis. They do either the LPL or MAN runs. Or anywhe
50 Post contains images Canberra : Thought this needed some quick action, so I booked myself a daytrip to the Isle of Man. EUR 145 all included with a schedule as follows Wednesday 15
51 Post contains images Skidmarks : Wow! Visitors two days running!! Capital146 on the 16th, and your good self on the 15th. I'm stunned! And all just a day after my birthday! A large b
52 MEA-707 : According to Aviation Letter, a quite reliable magazine, all three were parked in december and early january. Makes sort of sense as they got a lot o
53 GDB : Perhaps the root of the lack of success with ATP goes back a long way, before the aircraft was even conceived. R/R's bankruptcy in 1971, due mostly to
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