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Something New On Southwest...  
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9756 times:

Today (Feb. 5th) was the first day of SWA flights being able to conduct extended overwater operations. The old limit was no more than 50nm offshore, and the new one is no more than 162nm. This will allow fuel-saving shortcuts on flights to/from Florida...

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d143/OPNLguy/FLLBWIoverwater.jpg

[Edited 2006-02-06 05:37:11]

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5926 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9741 times:
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Perhaps we could see additional services in and out of FL in the near future.

User currently offline777WT From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 877 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9695 times:

Isn't this related to ETOPS operations?

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9668 times:

Quoting 777WT (Reply 3):
Isn't this related to ETOPS operations?

No, ETOPS is another thing entirely. The 162nm limit doesn't get one very far if they were going, say, LAX-HNL...  Wink


User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 4, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9640 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



What other 737 operators are approved for extended overwater ops?

I imagine this will make it a lot easier to deal with wx in and around the Gulf region...




2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineCharlipr From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2005, 340 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9631 times:

Did they get rafts in there planes to do this route?? I know that any time a plane wants to fly on an "AR" route, for example AR16, operators require rafts on board. FAA recommends to use AR routes more often, as to minimize departure delays when operating to/from the NE and Florida and vice-versa.

User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9607 times:

Quoting Charlipr (Reply 6):
Did they get rafts in there planes to do this route??

Some ARs require liveVESTS only; those further than 162nm require both lifeVESTS and lifeRAFTS...

No rafts on SWA aircraft, just vests...


User currently offlineCharlipr From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2005, 340 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9581 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 7):
Some ARs require liveVESTS only; those further than 162nm require both lifeVESTS and lifeRAFTS...

No rafts on SWA aircraft, just vests...

Cool!!! I learn something new everyday in this forum!!!


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9548 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 5):
I imagine this will make it a lot easier to deal with wx in and around the Gulf region...

Amen to that. The increased flexibility for weather-re-route will be significant...

Quoting Charlipr (Reply 8):
Cool!!! I learn something new everyday in this forum!!!

It'll be a bit odd for me, as I haven't operated via the ARs since I left Air Florida in 1982.

The 162nm figure originally came from an old exemption that National Airlines requested (and was approved for) eons ago so they could get between Florida and the NE, and vice versa.


User currently offlineCharlipr From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2005, 340 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9505 times:

I work for a company that does international flight plans for a well-known fractional aircraft operator, and we use AR routes all the time as long as we have a raft on board for everybody. If you start using the AR routes you will see that your aircraft will be cleared by ATC quicker, during bad weather, and those filed using the land route will be ground stop much longer. Many of the pref routes out of the New York area to the Bahamas, and Florida go on the AR routes.

User currently offline2H4 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 8955 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9466 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR



And to think.....earlier today, over in one of the Wright threads, someone was claiming "Southwest's options to improve productivity are very limited".


 rotfl 




2H4





Intentionally Left Blank
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9460 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 11):
And to think.....earlier today, over in one of the Wright threads, someone was claiming "Southwest's options to improve productivity are very limited".

They don't know us very well, dooooo they...?

When a solid line of thunderstorms cuts Florida in half, the new flexibility for re-routes will save hours of time...


User currently offlineMX757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 628 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9346 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 5):


What other 737 operators are approved for extended overwater ops?

All of CO's 737NG fleet are approved for 75 min ETOPS diversion authority.



Is it broke...? Yeah I'll fix it.
User currently offlineMandargb From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9241 times:

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 5):


What other 737 operators are approved for extended overwater ops?


===============

Aloha makes Hawaii to OAK / SJC / SFO area in their 737s.


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9194 times:

Wouldn't the title of this thread be more accurate if it said "Something New UNDER Southwest?"  Wink

I guess all aircraft now have the vests? I think you mentioned that this was a requirement in WN's view, if not a true legal requirement on its own. I'm still waiting for the 'earth shattering' thread about some new intl. destination or a new aircraft type. Well, at least I can always hope.  Smile



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineJohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2594 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 9140 times:

Funny you should mention this...I was on #1314 from PHX to OAK tonight, and lo and behold, during the safety demo the F/A's whipped out the vests and demonstrated how to use them.

I thought, "Now wait a minute...I've never seen THAT before on Southwest."


User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9110 times:

Quoting Johnboy (Reply 15):
Funny you should mention this...I was on #1314 from PHX to OAK tonight, and lo and behold, during the safety demo the F/A's whipped out the vests and demonstrated how to use them.

I thought, "Now wait a minute...I've never seen THAT before on Southwest."

Hence, why I started this thread...  Wink

Quoting SATX (Reply 14):
I think you mentioned that this was a requirement in WN's view, if not a true legal requirement on its own.

As I said earlier, it was to attain fuel savings from more direct routings to/from Florida, and get additional flexibility when re-routing for weather. The previous 50nm limitation was, quite simply, too limiting, and the new 162nm limit will make for a better operation. This has nothing to do with ETOPS, although I'm sure people will be confusing extended overwater operations with ETOPS for quite some time...


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 9076 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 16):
As I said earlier, it was to attain fuel savings from more direct routings to/from Florida, and get additional flexibility when re-routing for weather.

So does that mean not all WN aircraft have them yet? That's all I was really curious about. I thought I remember you stating that all aircraft would get these vests, though I couldn't remember if this was due to a specific requirement stating the whole fleet must be so equipped or was simply a business decision on WN's part.

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 16):
This has nothing to do with ETOPS, although I'm sure people will be confusing extended overwater operations with ETOPS for quite some time...

Thanks to your previous posts I'm well aware that this has nothing to do with ETOPS. When I mentioned international destinations I was merely thinking along the lines of Mexico and Canada. I understand that ETOPS is a far more intensive process than simply adding life vests and that it requires additional certification of both the carrier's aircraft and maintenance programs.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9016 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
So does that mean not all WN aircraft have them yet?

No, all have them. They started the installation process about a year ago (once the -200s were retired), and didn't "switch on" the new procedures until all remaining aircraft were equipped, all crews had been trained, and all seatback cards had been changed.


User currently offlineLongbowPilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 577 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 8929 times:
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Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 1):
Perhaps we could see additional services in and out of FL in the near future.

Just because they have a new route, does not mean an increase in Gate Capacity.


User currently offlineSbworcs From United Kingdom, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 848 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8888 times:

Sorry to sound so stupid but could someone explain for me what an AR route is?

Thanks

Stephen



The best way forwards is upwards!
User currently offlineOPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8858 times:

AR = Atlantic Route, a Jet Airway (one of several) off the east coast..

User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2248 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8765 times:

Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 21):
AR = Atlantic Route, a Jet Airway (one of several) off the east coast..

It should be noted that these offshore routes threaten the very existence of the DFW airport and the North Texas economy....................

Sorry. I couldn't resist.



I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineTxAgKuwait From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1803 posts, RR: 42
Reply 23, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8729 times:

And every time Southwest uses as AR, American cuts a flight between DFW and ILE, GGG, TYR, ACT, ABI, & SJT.

Ohhhhh the humanity....


User currently offlineSurfdog75 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8697 times:

Almost every other carrier has been doing these routes for years.

25 NateDAL : What about the 737s out of GUM? Some of those routes need more than 75 minute ETOPS, like GUM-MNL, GUM-HKG, GUM-Japan
26 Post contains images 3201 : Not just the AR's, but the Q's across the gulf as well.
27 Continental : Sweet! Never would have known that! What was keeping them from the 162nm limit in the first place?
28 Incitatus : Yes I made that claim. And it stands. It's possible that Northwest or United improve productivity by a large amount because their operations are rela
29 TxAgKuwait : >>Yes I made that claim. And it stands. It's possible that Northwest or United improve productivity by a large amount because their operations are rel
30 IceTitan447 : Off topic, do you know what WN's CASM is? Currently.
31 2H4 : It most certainly IS possible. As TxAgKuwait points out, the options may not be attractive, but they're there. Furthermore, it's safe to assume there
32 OPNLguy : The fact that we didn't have liveVESTS onboard. Seat-bottom cushions only get you out to 50nm max...
33 TxAgKuwait : For Q4 2005, CASM was 8.42 cents. Ex-fuel it was 6.57 cents. For the whole year, it was 7.94 cents, ex-fuel was 6.37 cents. Need to keep in mind, too,
34 Atrude777 : Cool, I will have to look out for the safety demo on my STL-FLL flight as im think the route takes us over the gulf will have to check it out. Alex
35 Post contains links and images RyGuy : In December of 2005 WestJet WS got their ETOPS in order for their flights to Hawaii from Vancouver. Very Cool, they are now permetted to fly for 3 ho
36 Planespotting : hahaha. Perhaps Pete Sessions (North Texas GOP Congressman) can add a rider onto some bill "The Sessions Amendment" prohibiting any aircraft register
37 Post contains images 2H4 : Well, it would only be fair, right? 2H4
38 Post contains images OPNLguy : Ssshh!
39 MtnWest1979 : So how does a paycut count as an increase in PRODUCTIVITY? That just cuts costs, not increase in any output.
40 HoosierCFI : I just flew the ISP-BWI flight last night and remembered thinking that they normally didn't do lifevests. They either didn't do it on my Friday BWI-IS
41 OPNLguy : Old procedures in effect on Friday. New procedures went into effect on Sunday.
42 Luvfa : Bear with us when we do the "new" safety demo. This is new for us too, LOL.
43 Post contains images Cactus739 : For all those that hate the comedy routines on Southwest beware, they now have something new they can joke about in the safety demo....   When are y
44 Post contains images OPNLguy : Just as soon as you guys start running the 757s LAX-SYD...
45 Silver1SWA : That would explain why I saw a F/A putting a vest on while I was provisioning a flight at SAN last night... It looked like she was going to use it du
46 SCXmechanic : They are doing them on all flights to practice and be consistent... That's what I read in one of the publications down in our MX office...
47 Incitatus : Do I have to read past that? All these suggestions have a big hurdle to cover either with employees or customers. You might as well have suggested pr
48 Dagolden1 : I noticed this as the flight attendant stumbled through the life vest spiel on my way to TUL from DAL today. I guess they have to give the speech ever
49 Swatpamike : Hello all If you all don't think 162nm vs 50nm makes a difference, ask the passengers today that where on average 15 minutes early arriving in TPA tod
50 FlyHoss : Yes, the CO 737-800s that operate from GUM are approved for (up to) 180 minute ETOPS. This ETOPS does not apply to the CO North American 737NGs which
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