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AA To Remove Two Galleys From Each MD-80  
User currently offlineQqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2282 posts, RR: 13
Posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12585 times:

In an effort to squeeze more revenue from the MD-80, American is going to reconfigure the galley's in the coach cabin, allowing four more passenger seats to be installed.

This is from a flight attendant hotline:

"As background, the initial design of the MD80 aircraft, years ago, provided three galleys (in coach) to support a full meal service and for many years that galley space was in use. Since we no longer have meals in coach, the need for three full galleys no longer exists. To gain more efficiencies with our MD80 aircraft, we have determined that four additional coach customer seats can be added to each aircraft by reducing galleys in coach and redesigning the area for more efficient use of space. The G4b and G5 galleys will be removed, which will allow the four passenger seats to be added. To ensure that the same levels of food and beverage service can be accommodated with this change, 2 cart housings and new trash receptacles will be added. A locked storage bin for flight attendant belongings will also be provided. With the installation of the four seats, AA will gain an additional 1,280 seats per day which is the equivalent of 10 aircraft worth of flying, generating an additional $34.7 million per year in revenue. As part of this modification, we will also be standardizing the MD80 fleet by replacing the old TWA galleys and carts with AA galleys and carts, which will improve operational efficiencies and lower costs. As we move forward with this effort, we will be asking a group of FAs to work with Inflight Products and Food and Beverage to optimize the design. The reconfigurations will begin in September of this year."

I suppose this makes sense, but I'd like to see a drawing of the new setup so I'll reserve judgement. One concern I have, however, is the industry is constantly complaining about how there is too much capacity. How does adding nearly 1,300 seats to your inventory reduce capacity? With this new configuration there will be 16 first class and 124 main cabin seats.


The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWdleiser From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 961 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12556 times:

It will only make them money if they ensure those seats are all full. I hope they realize that and took that into consideration.... which they probably did.

User currently offlineBrick From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1586 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12490 times:

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 1):
It will only make them money if they ensure those seats are all full

Wrong. Even if those four seats are empty the airline still saves money. Those four empty seats weigh considerably less than the galleys do. Less weight = less fuel.



A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man...
User currently offlineUpperDeck79 From Finland, joined Feb 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12473 times:

Quoting Qqflyboy (Thread starter):
The G4b and G5 galleys will be removed

Some AA MD-80's have 4, some 5 gallies:

MD-80 Configuration 1
MD-80 Configuration 2
MD-80 Configuration 3

So I guess from the configuration 3 only one galley is removed, right?



AY and ANA rock!
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5824 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12433 times:

Too much capacity?
Yes, the industry complains about it, but have you looked at quarterly load factors lately? They're insane. Setting some records, I believe, at certain carriers.
The problem is not capacity, it's yields. But, even so, most airlines saw substantial improvements in yields last year (see Continental and Alaska).
So, while I hate that service has deteriorated to the point that American (who considered themselves a premium airline, the carrier of choice for businessmen of the 70s and 80s) doesn't even need galleys, this is sensible.

Another idea, if the plane is full and you're still not making money (which seems to be the case), you'd better add more seats, hadn't you? Now that I put it that way, it makes perfect sense.

Very rarely does American do dumb things. I suspect they've figured this down to the cent.


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12419 times:

Quoting Qqflyboy (Thread starter):
As part of this modification, we will also be standardizing the MD80 fleet by replacing the old TWA galleys and carts with AA galleys and carts, which will improve operational efficiencies and lower costs.

Just another move to completely wipe the TWA name off AA's slate  Sad

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineILOVEA340 From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 2100 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 12343 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 5):



Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 5):
Just another move to completely wipe the TWA name off AA's slate

How can you say that??? This has nothing to do with wiping out the TWA name and everything to do with fleet commonality and part standardization. Think about it... Less spare parts to stock, less cross training of equiptment, less variation between seat layouts...

They would be stupid NOT to do this cinsidering that they are already going to be working on those parts of the planes.


User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 12312 times:

I personally tend to avoid AA, but I still think this is a smart move on their part.


Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3704 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 12280 times:
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This will also make the aircraft lighter, thus saving some fuel each time she vaults herself into the sky.


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
User currently offlineDL4EVR From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12059 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 4):
So, while I hate that service has deteriorated to the point that American (who considered themselves a premium airline, the carrier of choice for businessmen of the 70s and 80s) doesn't even need galleys, this is sensible.

What if one day, (in some alternate universe) they go back to full hot meal service in coach?  Smile LOL



We Love To Fly And It Shows.
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12013 times:

Quoting DL4EVR (Reply 9):
What if one day, (in some alternate universe) they go back to full hot meal service in coach?

Well, since we're dealing with alternate universes now, I'd assume that the 'other' AA has simply left their galleys in place. As for this universe, I'm confident they'll never go back to full hot meal service in Y until long after the MD80 type has be retired for good.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11916 times:

Quoting Qqflyboy (Thread starter):
One concern I have, however, is the industry is constantly complaining about how there is too much capacity. How does adding nearly 1,300 seats to your inventory reduce capacity?

Didn't AA already remove the ovens from the MD-80's as a weight reduction measure?? Empty galleys, or galleys carting around deadhead equipment is dead weight and has no revenue potential. It certainly makes sense on their part for all of the stated reasons.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineContrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1833 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 11882 times:

I think AA has a point. If the galleys aren't being used they can cram a few more pax in those spaces.

I think AA's new slogan should be "cramming passengers into the plane, that's what we do best".



Flying Colors Forever!
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4750 posts, RR: 44
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11771 times:

Quoting Qqflyboy (Thread starter):
16 first class and 124 main cabin seats.

Which oddly enough is only 2 seats short of the original AA MD80 configuration (before MRTC and all that bullshit)



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineAbirdA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 290 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11764 times:

Quoting Contrails (Reply 12):
I think AA's new slogan should be "cramming passengers into the plane, that's what we do best".

And yet the pitch on all of their aircraft, barring the often-discussed 757 and A300, is still well above the industry standard. The same majority of their fleet features up-to-date interiors in which all seats have winged headrests. All of that makes for flights that are more comfortable than crammed.

But thanks for the pointless waste of bandwidth anyway.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4750 posts, RR: 44
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 11688 times:

Quoting AbirdA (Reply 14):
But thanks for the pointless waste of bandwidth anyway.

You're titled to your opinion as others are to theres.

personally, I avoid AA like the plague. Never had a nice flight on them in all my travels.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11639 posts, RR: 61
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11536 times:

Personally, I think this is a very smart move. As someone who flies on American often, I can attest to the seldom use that the MD80 Y galleys get, and this is a perfect opportunity to simoultaneously save weight (and thus fuel and money) and also increase revenue with four more seats to fill, while not compromising the above-industry standard legroom AA's MD80 Y customers already get.

User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 11497 times:

Quoting AbirdA (Reply 14):
And yet the pitch on all of their aircraft, barring the often-discussed 757 and A300, is still well above the industry standard.

+

Quoting Commavia (Reply 16):
while not compromising the above-industry standard legroom AA's MD80 Y customers already get.

Neither of you have given any specifics of the new seat pitch on each aircraft type. "Above the industry standard" doesn't mean much to me. Can you please give me cold hard facts about the post-MRTC pitch with a link or two to back them up? Thanks-in-advance.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineLightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13130 posts, RR: 100
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11458 times:
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Quoting Qqflyboy (Thread starter):
AA will gain an additional 1,280 seats per day which is the equivalent of 10 aircraft worth of flying, generating an additional $34.7 million per year in revenue. As part of this modification, we will also be standardizing the MD80 fleet by replacing the old TWA galleys and carts with AA galleys and carts, which will improve operational efficiencies and lower costs.

Two good costs savings. More seats... Keeping the fleet simple. All good.

Quoting Brick (Reply 2):
Even if those four seats are empty the airline still saves money. Those four empty seats weigh considerably less than the galleys do. Less weight = less fuel.

 checkmark  Not to mention when those seats do sell, the revenue will be worth it. Also, Since AA isn't "tipping over" another multiple of 50, they'll use the same number of f/a's.

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 3):
So I guess from the configuration 3 only one galley is removed, right?

I hope AA uses the oportunity to cut down on the number of MD-80 configurations to at most 2 and I would hope 1. Can anyone tell me why there are 3 configurations? TWA? MRCR transitions?

Now AA needs to winglet the MD-80's. I've thought about it a bit more and as much as I'd like to see the PW6000A on these airframes, I don't see the payoff in 10 years.  Sad

Hopefully AA can get in the black in 2006 or 2007.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineGeorgiaAME From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 980 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11374 times:

Makes sense to me. The airlines are no longer serving food, and passenger comfort is non existent to begin with, so why not pack in a few more? And I hate to say this, but since the primary responsibilty of a flight attendant is to SERVE food (except for that 1 in a billion chance that the aircraft needs emergency evacuation), if I were a bean counter, I would strip the inflight crew to the minimum required by the FAA for safety. Delta has been flying with only a single FA in First for months now.

It's a little draconian, I admit, but since the American carriers have opted to become nothing more than Greyhound Bus service with wings, why not try to improve the profit margin? (Heaven forbid you drop unprofitable routes, or charge a reasonable and fare price for the service you are providing...)



"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
User currently offlineEXMEMWIDGET From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11324 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 11):
Didn't AA already remove the ovens from the MD-80's as a weight reduction measure??

Yes, AA did remove the coach cabin ovens on the S80 a few years ago. They simply covered over the remaining empty space with a thin sheet of metal.


User currently offlineCommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11639 posts, RR: 61
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11282 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
Neither of you have given any specifics of the new seat pitch on each aircraft type.

The seat pitch is now 32"-33", IIRC, which is above the industry-standard 31". American removed two rows of seating from the MD80 during the MRTC reconfiguration in 2000. The old configuration (pre-MRTC) was industry-standard. However, last year, when they added seats back, they only added back one row -- one less than they removed. So, essentially, it was a net removal of one row, which means that it is still above the industry-standard.

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
"Above the industry standard" doesn't mean much to me. Can you please give me cold hard facts about the post-MRTC pitch with a link or two to back them up? Thanks-in-advance.

"On the MD80 and 737 aircraft, only one of the two rows of coach seats originally removed will be added back to those airplanes."

From American Airlines' press release of 20 October 2004 available here.


User currently offlineQQflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2282 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 11097 times:

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 18):
I hope AA uses the oportunity to cut down on the number of MD-80 configurations to at most 2 and I would hope 1. Can anyone tell me why there are 3 configurations? TWA? MRCR transitions?

They will be standardized to more or less one configuration. The first config mentioned in reply 3 is the standard AA MD-80. The second and third are from TWA... the differences being the aft galley. Once these galleys are replaced, the only difference in the MD-80 fleet will be the placement of the first class lav and closet, which is a minimal difference and will effectively render a single configuration.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 19):
I would strip the inflight crew to the minimum

This has already occurred... the extra flight attendant has been removed from the staffing formula for most narrow-body domestic flying.

Quoting SATX (Reply 17):
Can you please give me cold hard facts about the post-MRTC pitch with a link or two to back them up?

The industry standard in coach is a 30-31" seat pitch. According to SeatGuru.com, the pitch on AA's MD-80s varies between 31-33". It is noted the 31" seat pitch is in the AB seats aft of the exit row, otherwise you still have decent leg room. Also keep in mind when AA created MRTC, they removed two rows of seats from every aircraft. With the exception of the A300 and 757, only ONE row was added back to the aircraft.

http://seatguru.com/airlines/America...rlines/American_Airlines_MD-80.php



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10850 times:

I actually choose AA over other carriers. With the exception of CO, my experiences on US Airlines in general have been horrible. But crossing the Atlantic on AA has been extremely confortable in Y and the occassional trip in B-Class has been wonderful. I think it's a great idea for them to add extra seats to ensure economic viability. If you want to fly for the 'glitz and glamour', then fly in first class (or business to a lesser extent), other than that, air-travel is just an efficient and effective means of transporting large(ish) numbers of people from point A to B. Long live AA. It sure beats flying on the trashy airlines from my 'neck of the woods' a la BW and AJ and various charters.

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineOkie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3044 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10728 times:

The configuration 3 is a TWA configuration with a single row of seats behind the rear galley.
TWA always filled those seats last and if the plane was not full then non revs would use them or occasionally FA's would use them on long flights.

I had to sit in the "penalty box" once, felt like I had regressed back to grade school or the group "W" bench.

Okie


25 Post contains images Lightsaber : Thanks for the info. So it will be to one configuration. Good. Also good information. AA seems to be looking ahead and keeping their airline ready fo
26 Post contains images SkyHigh777 : I wish they still served meals on planes...those were the days i guess At least it will bring more money in for American, hopefully.
27 Post contains links ChiGB1973 : I remember, not too long ago, when AA was promoting their removal of seats for extra leg room. The good ole days are going (have gone). When I flew fo
28 Post contains images FLY2LIM : It is so nice to have so many "industry experts" here on a.net. This move makes COMPLETE sense, replacing dead weight with profit making seats. Addin
29 Ca2ohHP : I give AA credit on this. They don't go to their employees for (more) concessions, or cut pensions. They think outside the box, unlike most other lega
30 Crjflyer35 : I've only flown AA 4 or 5 times in my commercial av. days, but all my Mad-Dog flights weren't the greatest, although, could be because I was literally
31 WhiteHatter : Galleys are not only heavy to constantly fly round but also maintenance heavy. Especially older ones where they are starting to become prone to faults
32 707lvr : All those LAV's take up a lot of room too. They'll go next.
33 Post contains links Xjramper : Wow....a whole inch more. For someone who is 6'5" 32-33 inches isn't a whole lot. From the looks of it, your beloved AA has 31-32 inches: http://www.
34 Post contains images AA777223 : As an AA customer, and one that lives in Dallas, I have certainly flown on my share of MD-80s. I think it makes sense. Less weight, more commonality a
35 Jacobin777 : I fly AA about 90% of my flights, of which 70% are on the Mad-Dog 80s (in fact, I'm flying this week from SJC-ORD one one)... their service is fine,
36 Commavia : Do you fly AA a lot? From my personal experience, one inch of legroom makes a considerable difference for many people.
37 United787 : Imagine how many more paying customers you could get on each plane. Maybe they can just put a hole in the bottom of each seat and place a "sanitary b
38 LMP737 : One thing I would like to see AA do is to remove the main deck four bunk crew rest from the 777 that sit in the middle of coach. Removing it and havin
39 XJRamper : Ive flown my fair share of AA flights, and trust me one inch doesn't make a difference. I flew airtran a couple of weeks ago and i was in their 737-7
40 FRAspotter : It's all about money....
41 Hiflyer : Removing galley's and adding seats is a good move even though on an older, less efficent fleet. I would surmise that this may be a first, less costly,
42 TPASXM787 : Wow those will be some sought-after seats too. Always love next to the engine on a DC-9 series. For a moment I hoped it said "AA to Remove MD-80s" Ah
43 Ckfred : First of all, the primary responsibility of the F/As is passenger safety. In-flight service is a secondary responsibility. A friend of mine, who is a
44 Uafan17 : Well AA did cut salaries and ask for concessions a while back, and IIRC AA is the only airline that operates MD-80s at this point with more than 2 ga
45 Post contains images ZChannel : Or they can install pay toilets to generate extra revenue. But, that may not work because any revenue generated by the pay toilets would be offset by
46 VHXLR8 : No, the primary responsibility of an F/A is NOT to serve food, that is just maximisation of our time. The primary role of an F/A is safey; but unlike
47 Ckfred : Here's what I don't understand about the airline industry. Twenty years ago, it was uncommon to find a hotel room that had an alarm clock, iron and ir
48 Lincoln : Not to mention the extra cleanup costs/bad PR from having to deal with those "who just gotta go" and are offended by the prospect of having to pay do
49 OHLBU : Finnair did the same with their MD-80s a few years ago when they began using them mostly for economy class only-routes. This brought 7 new seats and a
50 McMax : While I would love to see AA return to the service levels of earlier years, the problem is (as many before me have stated) that most passengers these
51 Charlipr : Now that galleys our out!!! What next??? Remove all lavatories, but the one in FC???
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