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JL Reduces Flying To LHR  
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2956 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6061 times:

JL will only fly a single daily on the NRT-LHR beginning summer schedule this year.

KIX-LHR will go switch to 772ER from 744.

This is quite a shock since most carriers want as much seats (premium & Y) on flights originating from there.
I wonder if they are going to sell the extra slots to the highest bidder like EK, QR or EY.

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7152 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6035 times:

LHR NRT is a dog at present - BA have recently stated that yields on this route are very poor, and they are losing money on the route.


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 6012 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 1):
LHR NRT is a dog at present - BA have recently stated that yields on this route are very poor, and they are losing money on the route.

I don't doubt what you're saying, but seeing as how JL appears to be in rather bad shape at the moment I'm guessing that's the main issue with their decision. I've flown JL and JO a few times and I found their in-flight service to be good compared to US airlines. However their recent safety record leaves a lot to be desired, IMO. Hopefully they'll learn from their experience and be more careful in the future.



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4004 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5787 times:

What will happen to the slots ? Sold ? Grandfathered by another carrier ?

User currently offlineFinnWings From Finland, joined Oct 2003, 640 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5709 times:

Sounds a very logical solution by JL in my opinion. Considering that JL is entering into OneWorld it is a good solution to reduce capacity between Japan and LHR if there is over capacity. This will benefit JL and BA as both will have a better yields and load factor. You should also remember that Japan-LHR flights goes exactly over Southern-Finland which also makes Helsinki as a convenient transfer airport for AY or BA flights to LHR.

Any info if JL is planning flights to HEL? Finnair is unable to get more slots for NRT and geographically Finland is closer to Japan than any other European country. AY would offer extensive onward connections from Nagoya/Narita/Osaka- Helsinki flights not only to LHR but almost everywhere in Europe.

Best Regards,
FinnWings


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4785 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 5653 times:

You have 4 airlines flying daily year round nonstops to NRT from LHR i.e. BA, VS, JL and ANA + many airlines flying one stop via their hubs who also give these 4 airlines a run for their money such as AF-LH-KL-AZ-AY-SK-SQ-TG-CX-MH-KE-OZ-CA.

Since JL would be joining One World, I wouldnt be surprised to see them codesharing and revenue sharing with BA on both airlines's LHR-NRT route similar to the QF-BA arrangement on the LHR-SYD-LHR route.


User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5482 times:

Quoting SATX (Reply 2):
However their recent safety record leaves a lot to be desired, IMO. Hopefully they'll learn from their experience and be more careful in the future.

What's wrong with JL's recent safety record? I thought the last major incident they had was back in 1985, more than 20 years ago.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 5):
You have 4 airlines flying daily year round nonstops to NRT from LHR i.e. BA, VS, JL and ANA + many airlines flying one stop via their hubs who also give these 4 airlines a run for their money such as AF-LH-KL-AZ-AY-SK-SQ-TG-CX-MH-KE-OZ-CA.

I can understand if the Northern European carriers compete with the British and Japanese carriers on this route. But SQ, CX and TG? That would mean adding over 6 hours of flying time plus transit time to an already long flight.


User currently offlineTokyoNarita From Palau, joined Aug 2003, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5332 times:

According to Asahi.com, JAL also announced that it plans to reduce 10% of seats being offered in international market due to poor yields on some routes dominated by leisure travelers. Besides the discontinuation of the second daily NRT-LHR, NRT-LAS-LAX-NRT, and KIX-LAX are also listed. JAL plans to reduce NRT-BKK from 3 times a day to twice daily....KIX-Denpasar will be cut to three times a week from daily...JAL also plans to transfer NRT-Jakarta, Ho Chi Minh, Hanoi, and Sydney to its low cost subsidiary JalWays.

It looks like no more JAL at Vegas...

TokyoNarita.

[Edited 2006-02-06 18:26:57]

User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4269 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5294 times:

From Oct 27, 2006 - JL will change from 744 to 772ER on NRT-AMS flights.
This also means a reduce of seats offered on this route

Eric



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5243 times:

Reduced flying means reduced need for airplanes...I wonder how they will deal with issue. They cannot keep them parked and return to profitability.

User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12569 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5148 times:
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Quoting Jaysit (Reply 6):
What's wrong with JL's recent safety record? I thought the last major incident they had was back in 1985, more than 20 years ago.

I can't remember the exact details, but there have indeed been a number of incidents recently which has raised some serious doubts about the airline's leadership and safety standards.

I'm sure other can fill you in with the exact details - they have all been discussed here.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5053 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 1):
LHR NRT is a dog at present - BA have recently stated that yields on this route are very poor, and they are losing money on the route.

interesting that BA still sends 2 744's there....maybe along with JL downsizing the route, and BA switching to smaller planes such as a 777, yields would improve...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8115 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5018 times:

I'm really surprised JAL are struggling, with worldwide air travel stronger than it's ever been, at least in terms of numbers of people hitting the road.

Also surprised there isn't enough premium travel to Sydney to justify mainline. Tonnes of Japanese business in Oz, and likewise too I suspect.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 5002 times:

JAL's image has taken a real beating because of the safety lapses. While some of them have been blown out of the proportion by an oversensitized Japanese media, there were several incidents/lapses that were pretty serious. Many Japanese are flocking to ANA which is actually showing profit growth.

I think another big factor is the poorly executed merger with JAS which is still incomplete and has burdened the company with a lot of redundant staff and levels of management.


User currently offlineFinnWings From Finland, joined Oct 2003, 640 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4806 times:

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 10):
I can't remember the exact details, but there have indeed been a number of incidents recently which has raised some serious doubts about the airline's leadership and safety standards.

That is correct indeed. JL also gave an announcement a while ago where they stated that safety hasn't been the highest priority recently. This is extremely alarming as safety should always be the most important thing for every airline no matter what is the situation. It is also a very exceptional confession as usually airlines will deny that they have endangered safety even it is obvious.

It is good that JL knows the problem and they are trying to do everything to improve the safety now.

Best Regards,
FinnWings

[Edited 2006-02-06 22:27:48]

User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6923 posts, RR: 63
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4723 times:

Later this year I'm moving to live in Japan. I've never flown either ANA or JAL. How are they perceived in Japan? Is one "better" than the other? My "home" airport will be KIX.

User currently offlineLazyshaun From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4670 times:

But with all these cut in international traffic, where will the extra a/c go? Thats a lot of 747's and other heavies sitting around.

[Edited 2006-02-06 22:40:20]


I came. I saw. I conquered
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6923 posts, RR: 63
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4670 times:

Quoting Lazyshaun (Reply 16):
c/a

a/c?


User currently offlineCloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4600 times:

How is JAL tackling labor costs? They must be high as compared to other Asian and European carriers.


Boston, USA
User currently offlineCRGsFuture From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4479 times:

I think the NRT LHR route being cut to once daily makes sense, not only for the yields but how many British people travel to Tokyo every year, some rather low number right?

I don't know about you but it makes perfect sense.

By the what were JL's recent incidencies?



Flying you to your destination; your girlfriend to her dreams.
User currently offlineAndesSMF From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4455 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 12):
I'm really surprised JAL are struggling, with worldwide air travel stronger than it's ever been, at least in terms of numbers of people hitting the road.

Again, Japan is slowly suffering a population crisis (look it up in Wikipedia), with an aging and decreasing population, the demand for air travel goes down.


User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4269 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4455 times:

Quoting Lazyshaun (Reply 16):
But with all these cut in international traffic, where will the extra a/c go? Thats a lot of 747's and other heavies sitting around.

Intl route cuts, and others go from 744 to 772ER/773ER
means, 744's will get unused now,
JL will convert those to freighters (first to be JA8902 entering service in April/May 06, now conversion at XMN), and JL Cargo older 747-200F's will be retired within a few years time from now.
So the 744's coming available will be converted to freighters, and some will replace the older 747 models (742/743) which are still in active service with JL.

Eric



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineJaysit From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3956 times:

This is interesting especially since London remains a favorite destination for Japanese tourists. I guess they're all opting for cheaper SE Asian or European options than JAL.

User currently offlineB741 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 716 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3857 times:

I wonder if UAL(747-400) or DL(767-400) will continue the LAS-NRT route?


Being Bilingual, I Speak English And Aviation
User currently offlineAmy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 1150 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3730 times:

My dad recently flew this route with JAL and said that the product was not up to the standards of BA and VS.


A340-300 - slow, but awesome!
25 Coronado990 : I guess the A-380 won't be on this route anytime soon.
26 Ikramerica : With fuel prices high, leisure travelers will lose seat availability. JL and NH are both finding it better to run 772 and 773 aircraft rather than 747
27 UpperDeck79 : Both are considered expensive for international travel, since they rarely slash prices like UA, NW, AA and others do. Some people seam a bit too worr
28 Vincewy : Also keep in mind that in the past, high speed rail (Shinkansen) lines were limited (only Tokyo-Osaka), but now it's expanding, once the whole nation
29 Post contains images UpperDeck79 : But even with Shinkansen Tokyo-Fukuoka takes more than 5 hours which is quite a lot. Flight time is 2 hours and you only need to show up at the airpo
30 Vincewy : I'm talking about shorter city pairs such as Tokyo-Nagoya, Tokyo-Osaka, Tokyo-Sendai, Osaka-Fukuoka, plus Shinkansen brings in new model every few ye
31 UpperDeck79 : There are no flights HND-NGO and HND-SDJ at the moment and the Shinkansen has been running Osaka-Fukuoka and Osaka-Tokyo already for quite some time,
32 Vincewy : Point taken, I'm speaking of business travelers, you can hop on the train, arrive in center of Tokyo where many companies are located, unlike going t
33 UpperDeck79 : Of course, that's true and I'm not arguing against it. I just wanted to raise the fact that, in my opinion, big changes to the current situation are
34 Post contains links BestWestern : http://www.asiatraveltips.com/news06/62-JAL.shtml "An income improvement of 8 billion yen is expected to result from route suspensions," JAL will incr
35 Abrelosojos : = To me this is the most surprising of all the announcements. NRT-SYD not having premium traffic is plain weird. -A.
36 Kaitak : This means that for the first time in 35 years, there will be no JAL (passenger) 747s flying to LHR. Hopefully things will recover soon. What happens
37 Cloud4000 : What about JL's operations in KIX? I'm shocked that they completely axed KIX-LAX, given that Osaka is Japan's biggest commercial city, with plenty of
38 Airbuseric : KIX-LAX,... no other carriers there then JL only. So JL will terminate services on this route, that means the route is disappearing completely.
39 N79969 : Besides being the capital, Tokyo is indisputably Japan's commercial center. Osaka was historically a commercial center though.
40 Ozvirginuk : I think you'd be surprised actually. Japan is a becoming a very popular destination, anthough there is also alot of student traffic on this route. I
41 B747-4U3 : They used to operated a thrice weekly M11 service from NGO to LHR. I think it was suspended after 9/11.
42 PM : Does their Star membership give them another edge?
43 Col : 2005 was not a good growth year for LHR. Many carriers have seen the merits of flying from the UK regions with EK, CO etc. This may have had a negativ
44 N79969 : Japanese airlines drop and add service like other companies. For example, ANA used to fly to Chicago, Yangon, and Sydney. JAL used to operate to Wash
45 Concorde001 : While I agree about carriers realising the benefits of flying from the regions, 2005 was not a bad year for LHR. As for growth, slot restricted LHR c
46 Col : Concorde001, Thanks for the information, which is very interesting. I am not arguing that there is new service and that the airlines are increasing th
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