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AA DC-10-10 At LHR  
User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13649 times:


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Photo © Wingnut



When I saw that picture, I was somewhat surprised. Did AA operated regularly its LHR services with DC-10-10s or was it a unique occasion?

Thanks.

M.

40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7305 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13603 times:
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Actually discussed with my uncle recentally. He told me when he was right seating it for AA on the DC10 he flew regularly to HNL and London. He didn't clairfy LHR or LGW. I'd assume he meant LHR if this pic is in the database!



The picture is awesome!  bouncy 


User currently offlineNed Kelly From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 410 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 13588 times:

In the early 90's and possibly late 80's, American began using their DC10-10's on services across the pond to LHR. If my memory serves me correct the only ones that they used were the DC10-10ER's. I think that they had about 3 aircraft converted to ER.

I am not at home at the moment, so I can't check for the registrations that were DC10-10ER's. I think N125AA was one of them.

If anyone else can add or clarify, please do.


User currently offlineStevenUhl777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13462 times:

My grandfather flew on an AA DC-10 (I think it was a -30, though) from DFW-LGW for the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Britain.

User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1616 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13411 times:

Interesting that is the only photo of the DC-10 in the database at LHR. There are only 16 pictures of AA MD-11s in the database at LHR. Must not have been a very popular plane for AA to use to LHR.

M


User currently offlineLeezyjet From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 4042 posts, RR: 53
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13361 times:

Quoting ChiGB1973 (Reply 4):
Interesting that is the only photo of the DC-10 in the database at LHR. There are only 16 pictures of AA MD-11s in the database at LHR. Must not have been a very popular plane for AA to use to LHR.

Or maybe it was due to the fact that back then digital camera's were unheard of, making uploading of such shots to the then unheard of internet quite difficult.  Wink

There are probably hundreds of photo's sitting people's attics that just have not been scanned, edited and uploaded due to it being too time consuming compared to digital photography hence the reason for a low number of shots. Not just of AA either or DC-10's, but loads of a/c and airlines from the 50's-late 90's will not be represented by a high number of shots in the db, until the internet and digital photography became much more popular.

 Smile



"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
User currently offlineWillyj From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13322 times:

I flew AA DC-10 from LHR to BOS back in the early 90's. I believe that AA also used them initially (along with 747SPs) on their flights to JFK, and their flights from ORD.

AA also used to fly the DC-10 from JFK - ORY


User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1616 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13322 times:

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 5):
Or maybe it was due to the fact that back then digital camera's were unheard of, making uploading of such shots to the then unheard of internet quite difficult

Very true. Maybe some of those will get scanned after this thread!

M


User currently offlineTAN FLYR From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1909 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13299 times:

IIRC, AA used the DC-10-10-ER From ORD to LHR soon after purchasing the route from TWA. The aircraft was usually routed from DFW at either 1PM or 1:30Pm to ORD as a part of the slew of DFW/ORD flights. Flight number changed at ORD. Reverse later in the day, and I think the ORD-DFW was at 6 or 6:30 PM.timed for extra business traffic. The Aircraft were given over nights at DFW. Now, IF my memeory is correct, there was a period when the same was done only it was LAX not DFW. Maybe someone else remembers for sure.

Hope this helps.


User currently offlineLHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 13248 times:

I worked at AA at LHR in those days...we used the DC-10-10ER for LHR-BOS-LHR service only. The DC-10-30 was used on the ORD and JFK services. Actually, JFK was served by the 2 747SP's and the 767-200ER and -300ER fleet in the early 90's.

User currently offlineSleekjet From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2046 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13154 times:

As I recall, the AA DC-10 had a 2-5-2 seating arrangement. Being in the middle seat of the middle section was about as claustrophobic as it gets.


II Cor. 4:17-18
User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13067 times:

Thank you all for your answers. Now that the DC-10-10ER was mentioned, if my memory doesn't betray me, I think that it was indicated in the JP airlines fleet. So if anyone still has one from the early 1990s, he or she can possibly give us the registration of these DC-10-10ERs AA had.

On a technical level, were these aircraft equipped with additional fuel tanks in the cargo hold? Was the number of passengers limited to allow a longer range without any technical modifications (additional fuel tanks)?


User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8124 posts, RR: 54
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 13019 times:

A DC10-10ER?! Wha...?! I thought the whole point is that the -10 was short and medium haul (ie NY-LA) and the -30 was the long haul model (ie HEL-PEK). How can you have a -10ER? Why would you, given the existence of the -30? The -10 doesn't have the centre main gear, so how much extra weight (read: fuel) can a -10 have carried? -10ER? Never 'eard of it mate. I think you're confused.

Dr Hibbert: "Mr Simpson, I think you're confused."
Homer: "Oh, confused, would we?"



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 12957 times:

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 12):
I thought the whole point is that the -10 was short and medium haul

You're right, but in the past airlines like Scanair, Premiair, CP Air, Arrow Air, Capitol Air, Laker Airways 1(UK) & 2(US), Cal-Air, Novair, Western, American Trans Air, Key Air, Omni Air International, World Airways, perhaps Sun Country with DC-10-10 & -15, and probably some other crossed the Atlantic with the DC-10-10, most of the time with a fuel stop.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25512 posts, RR: 50
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 12895 times:

There were indeed some higher gross weight DC-10-10s.

The basic DC-10-10 MTOW was about 430,000lbs, while higher weight versions were available up to 455,000lb if I remember correctly.

AA referred to such aircraft as the DC-10-10ER. Others that operated these higher weight versions (but never used the -10ER nickname) included Scanair, Sun Country and Western.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12755 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 14):
AA referred to such aircraft as the DC-10-10ER. Others that operated these higher weight versions (but never used the -10ER nickname) included Scanair, Sun Country and Western.

It appears that the AA DC-10-10 photographed at LHR (N166AA) was in fact N901WA with Western Airlines.
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Photo © Frank C. Duarte Jr.



[Edited 2006-02-06 21:34:02]

User currently offlineIAHAAPlatinum From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 65 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12483 times:

I flew on an AA DC-10 BOS-LHR-BOS several times in the winter of 1991-1992, although I don't know if any of the flights were on an -ER or not. Yes, the configuration in coach was 2-5-2, but that time of year the flights tended not to be full, and it was typically easy to get at least 2 seats to myself, if not more. I miss the DC-10s!

User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12375 times:

The Orbis flying lab is listed in some areas as a DC10-10er...was that an old AA frame?

Add the original National to the DC10-10 across the pond...JFK-AMS. Shortlived.


User currently offlineMoparman From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 411 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 12323 times:

Forgive my ignorance in this matter:

Was the DC-10-10 not designed specifically for North American transcontinental routes as it lacked the intercontinental range? For the intercontental routes there was the DC-10-30/40?

[Edited 2006-02-06 22:22:30]


"Harming a patient is unethical, but I can inflict as much pain as I like" Dr. Phlox
User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12153 times:

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 17):
The Orbis flying lab is listed in some areas as a DC10-10er...was that an old AA frame?

It should have went to AA, but was insteed kept by MDC for flight testing, and delivered to Laker Airways in 1977. It later migrated to TZ, EN (Call-Air Intl & Novair) before flying for Orbis.

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 17):
Add the original National to the DC10-10 across the pond...JFK-AMS. Shortlived.

It most certainly was a DC-10-30 as NA got four of them before merging with PA. They even leased one from NZ in 1979, in full Kiwi airline livery with a fleet number '85' on the nose as a clue.


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Photo © John Kelly



Cheers,

M.


User currently offlineLurch From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 11423 times:

AA had 2 DC-10-15ERs that also operated out of LHR at one point!

User currently offlineSevenheavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1156 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11074 times:

When AA took over TWA's LHR routes in June '91 they were a little short of suitable aircraft to operate such a large number of routes at such short notice. The DC10-10 only just had the range for transatlantic ops and was limited to LHR-BOS. The rest of the routes were served as follows (from memory)

LHR - ORD : DC10-30/B767
LHR - LAX : B763
LHR - JFK : B747SP / B767
LHR - MIA : B767
LHR - EWR :B767

During the mid 90's almost all of these routes (with the exception of LAX for some reason) were served at some point by MD11's. It was the norm to see 6 or 7 lined up together mid morning.

Regards



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlineMagyarorszag From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 11074 times:

Quoting Lurch (Reply 20):
AA had 2 DC-10-15ERs that also operated out of LHR at one point!

AA never had a single DC-10-15ER, not even DC-10-15. They had DC-10-10s and -30s. The only US airline to operate the DC-10-15 was Sun Country, and there's never been DC-10-15ER at all. The sole DC-10 version that was also proposed as ER was the -30.

Regards,

M.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21534 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10745 times:

Quoting Moparman (Reply 18):
Was the DC-10-10 not designed specifically for North American transcontinental routes as it lacked the intercontinental range? For the intercontental routes there was the DC-10-30/40?

Yes, but as explained, BOS-LHR is not really all that far. It's only 2850nm.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineBN747 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 5617 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10430 times:

There was no DC-10-10ER, the DC-10-30 was the only intercontinental range DC-10 versions available, aside from the heavier-rated DC-10-40, which only NWA and JAL operated.

A weight-restricted DC-10-10 (plus fuel stop) could do the job as mentioned above.

The AA DC-10 pictured above (at Heathrow) was indeed originally Western'.
The ship is now in svc with Fed Ex. But Western also operated a few DC-10-30s as did AA.

46908 95 DC10-10 CF6-6K 04/19/73 AA (now Fed Ex) N166AA 558 N901WA

The two Sun Country DC-10-15s were both ex-Mexicana machines, below:

48259 357 DC10-15 CF6-50C2F SUN COUNTRY N154SY N10045, XA-TDI
48295 374 DC10-15 CF6-50C2F SUN COUNTRY N151SY N1004B, XA-MEX

BN747



"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
25 SCXmechanic : SY did in fact take the DC-10 across the North Atlantic many times. I did several of those trips on N153SY as it had (I think) a lower zero fuel weigh
26 Hiflyer : nope..NAL used the -10 for JFKAMS. The Air New Zealand DC10 operation was brought on by the AA DC10 ORD crash and subsequent US fleet grounding as si
27 C133 : I won't claim to be an authority on this, but I flew captain on the AA DC-10s from 1984 to 1996. According to my operating manual all AA DC-10-10s had
28 ImperialEagle : Are we sure thats not a series 30 with the center gear retracted? I can't read the numbers.
29 LTU932 : No, because if the Series 30 would have the centre gear retracted, it could only be used for low gross weight flights (e.g. Testflights, Ferryflights
30 DC-10inLB : I don't know how late in the game I'm jumping in, but what the hell, talking about one of my favorite planes AA's DC-10-10ERs were registered as follo
31 Post contains images ImperialEagle : O.K., well we do not know the particular circumstances surrounding this particular aircraft as photographed. So therefore, it is possible, unless ide
32 BN747 : Not it isn't... you can check my reply#24... Against, JPFleets or Airlinerlist.com's profile of the ship #46908 and see that she was built as a DC-10
33 Post contains images Magyarorszag : That goes the way I thought in reply 11. So, I do you explain that Swissair had four DC-10-30ER (HB-IHL/M/N/O), the first two having been converted f
34 BN747 : Read your own post bud, all DC-10-30s... ..my comment was... Still no DC-10-10ER. BN747
35 Post contains images Magyarorszag : Hum!    I have to admit that I went too fast on this one. My fault. Should have answered after I had drunk my coffee... You're absolutly right BN74
36 Post contains images ImperialEagle : Missed reading it the first time around----- I could not read the numbers of the a/c in the photo, and yes, there is the matter of the shape of the i
37 BN747 : No prob.. I'm amazed I spelled everything correctly given my horrific track record... Not only that, look at the 'sharpened rod' that protrudes from
38 Post contains links and images Magyarorszag : Here are the differents DC-10 tails & engines shapes. Early (left) and later (right) DC-10-10, -10CF & (later only) -10F DC-10-15 View Large View Med
39 Lijnden : I would like to add that National NEVER flew DC-10-10's to AMS! Only the DC-10-30's series. Back in those days there were also all kinds of restrictio
40 Magyarorszag : But Laker Airways started its trans-atlantic Skytrain with a DC-10-10 from LGW. I've retrieved a report I have since many years, published in Air Pic
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