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Gulf Air To Replace 9 767s At $900 Mln  
User currently offlineGF-A330 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 1643 posts, RR: 2
Posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10389 times:

MUSCAT, Feb 6 (Reuters) - Gulf Air announced on Monday plans to spend $900 million to replace 9 aging Boeing 767s but did not name the aircraft it intended to buy.

James Hogan, chief executive officer of Gulf Air, told reporters the airline would seek a long-term loan to finance the purchase once approved by the airline owners, the governments of Bahrain and Oman.

Gulf Air, which returned to profitability in 2004 after years of losses, carries a debt of about $500 million.


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"Our idea is to change the type of aircraft to two within ten years from four now," he said after a board meeting in Muscat, which will become the airline's other hub in March.

Hogan said the Manama-based Gulf Air, which operates a fleet of 34 aircraft, would start placing orders by May. He said the airline also plans to refurbish its fleet but did not give further details.

Abu Dhabi, which launched its own airline in 2004, has announced its intention to withdraw from Gulf Air. Abu Dhabi and other former co-owner Qatar have injected millions of dollars to keep the airline afloat in its red years.

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12460 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10316 times:
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Gulf Air has a long history, I can remember their VC-10s at Heathrow a long time ago. However, the concept of a pan-Arabian airline seems to have runs its course. I hope they can survive and prosper, but it looks pretty tough for them.

I assume the two types would be A320s plus one type to replace the 767s and eventually also the A330s and A340s. Looks like either the A350 or 787 would fit the bill for the widebodies.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineCO7e7 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2848 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10260 times:

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
I can remember their VC-10s at Heathrow a long time ago

I'm assuming you're talking about this bird here:

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I hope they paint them with any of these livery:

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Photo © Lucien Schranz



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These liveries are BEAUTIFUL!


User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10132 times:

I bet DL is wishing they had some money to tak them off of Gulf's hands. They need more 767ERs for their international expansion and they have experience with these aircraft, having taken some of Gulf's 767s in the past.


Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineScbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12460 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10019 times:
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Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 2):
I'm assuming you're talking about this bird here:

I think they had more than one. I remember they carried their old BOAC registrations for some time before they were changed to A4O-.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineCloud4000 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 641 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9985 times:

Does this include the aircraft operated by Gulf Traveler too?

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 1):
Gulf Air has a long history, I can remember their VC-10s at Heathrow a long time ago. However, the concept of a pan-Arabian airline seems to have runs its course. I hope they can survive and prosper, but it looks pretty tough for them

Qatar is out. Abu Dhabi is out. How soon will Oman Air push Gulf Air out of Muscat?



Boston, USA
User currently offlineFCKC From France, joined Nov 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 9912 times:

Did they say , when they will these new planes to be delivered ?
If it's before 2008 , so they will go A330 , if they can wait for a few years more , another A350/787 battle in sight.
The second type could be A32X , if they wish to stay with a narrow body type in their fleet.
In fact it could be 737NG , if Boeing offers them a very advantageous package , including wide bodies.
But we have heard they were studying regional jets , such as the ERJ170 family.
So their order , could be :
-A330/A320 (or ERJ)
or
-A350/A320 (or ERJ)
or
-787/737NG (or ERJ)

Till 4 months to know the answer


User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2366 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9881 times:

Quoting FCKC (Reply 6):
A330/A320 (or ERJ)

Name one reason why so? An airline replacing 767s for long term? Its either 787 or A350.


User currently offlineDalecary From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9828 times:

A very good chance for a 350 order IMO. IIRC Hogan was quoted last year(can't remember if it was FI or another publication) as saying there was every chance GF would be supplied by one manufacturer in the future and they would narrow their fleet to 2 types(1 NB and 1 WB). The only Boeing's in the fleet are the 763s and they are going, which could point to advantage Airbus IMO.
I'm sure it is a 787 v 350 battle, and I would be most surprised to see the 330 involved. GF seem to know their place and don't have wild expansion plans of other carriers in the region. Hogan is pretty keen to keep the fleet at around 30-40 total for the near to mid term.


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4766 posts, RR: 43
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9758 times:

The key point in this article says 9 aircraft to be bought for US $ 900 million which means after all discounts they are spending US $ 100 million per frame for either a B 787 or A 350.

However, it is worth mentioning that the GF CEO of the late 1980s who ordered from Boeing these 9 B 767-300ERs had signed a clause which said that if GF were to ever phase out its B 767s then it could be only sold back to Boeing and no other airline.

Therefore do not be surprised to see a "trade off" deal signed with Boeing where by GF buys B 787s and gets some sort of cash back facility for selling these B 763s back to Boeing hence increasing their discount OR enabling them to squeeze in a few more aircraft into the order i.e 1 or 2.

A similar sort of deal was signed by Boeing and SQ-Singapore Airlines in 1998 where by Boeing bought SQs A 343s in exchange for an order for 20+ B 777s from SQ.


User currently offlineDeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9670 times:

I always liked their 763ER setup, with the 2L and 2R doors...people at DL will remark that they're a pain to work, but I like actually being able to board a widebody from mid, where FC traffic and therefore coach traffic is cut in half. Should have been standard on all 767's IMHO.

DeltaGuy


User currently offlineRICARDOAB From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9484 times:

Did I read somewhere in one of the forums late last year that GF had struck a deal with Boeing for 737-800's, or was that another middle-eastern airline?

User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9380 times:

Not really new, IMHO. Gulf Air has been talking about replacing the 767s for ages.

User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6882 posts, RR: 63
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9309 times:

Quoting Dalecary (Reply 8):
I'm sure it is a 787 v 350 battle, and I would be most surprised to see the 330 involved.

You're probably right but a few years back (pre Hogan?) Gulf actually announced that they were going to standardise on the A330-200 as their principal (only?) widebody aircraft. It never happened. Might it yet?

Another trivial point of interest is that Gulf seem to have suffered from indecision for a while. They had GE-powered 777s on order in the early 1990s and then cancelled them to order RR-powered A330-300s which they then switched to A330-200s (some of which they then leased to TAM).


User currently offlineDTManiac From Germany, joined Aug 2004, 689 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9284 times:

Hmmm, I am not the only one who finds their livery stunning, am I? Awesome paint job.

Regards

Frederik



Gig 'em Aggies!!!
User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9178 times:

Quoting DTManiac (Reply 14):
Hmmm, I am not the only one who finds their livery stunning, am I? Awesome paint job.

You most certainly are not. I actually find their gold livery even better looking than their "special" liveries as pointed out in reply 2.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineBucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8135 times:

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 10):
I always liked their 763ER setup, with the 2L and 2R doors...people at DL will remark that they're a pain to work, but I like actually being able to board a widebody from mid, where FC traffic and therefore coach traffic is cut in half. Should have been standard on all 767's IMHO.

Not sure, but I think Delta did pick up a 763ER from Gulf Air back in the late 90s.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4747 posts, RR: 45
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7831 times:

Quoting Bucky707 (Reply 16):
Not sure, but I think Delta did pick up a 763ER from Gulf Air back in the late 90s.

DL has a few (6 I believe) -3P6ERs in the fleet. I always thought it was odd as the FA's referred to them as 767Gulf a/c.

I prefer the 767 with the 2L/R door combo vs. four overwings...



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2177 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7559 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 7):
Quoting FCKC (Reply 6):A330/A320 (or ERJ)
Name one reason why so? An airline replacing 767s for long term? Its either 787 or A350.

Same reason as Finnair and the 340 and TP with the 330:
Availability.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12134 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7559 times:

Well, with 9 B-767-300ERs coming on the market, soon, there could be a lot of airlines interested in them. Sorry, I don't know a lot about GF.

Since DL already took some of these airplanes, I assume they are GE engines (sorry, I cannot open the pictures today, for some reason). I doubt DL can afford to pick up a few more of the GF B-767-300ERs, even though they need them.

But I think TZ can get them. Wasn't TZ looking for 5-6 GE equipped B-767-300ERs to begin replacing the L-1011-500s for their military charters?

I believe North American is also looking for a few more to add to their fleet, also for the military charters.

UA may also want a few additional B-767-300ERs, but I thought they needed P&W engines.

There is also a rumor that AA will drop the former TW B-767-300ERs (GE), also, when the leases are up (along with the former TW B-757-200 {P&W}), as they don't fit well within the AA B-767 fleet. I believe we already know that AC will be getting rid of their B-767-300ERs as their B-787-800s and B-777-200ERs begin arriving.

So, could we see several used B-767-300ERs suddenly become available in the next 4-5 years?


User currently offlineZamaria From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7491 times:

Having flown in Gulf Traveller's B767s a few times in the last few years (from AUH to TRV via MCT), these are really dingy aircraft in desperate need of replacement, or perhaps just a good scrubbing. Anyone know anything about the age and history of these aircraft?

While spending the money to upgrade their aircraft, they might as well spend money to send their crews to finishing school as I routinely encountered rude and downright nasty staff - not only on the India flights, but flights to and from Europe as well.

However, I could always count on free and wildly hilarious in-flight entertainment consisting of some poor soul(s) being berated by members of the Gulf crew for seemingly no reason. One guy, admittedly quite drunk, was threatened with immediate removal from the aircraft by a flight crewmember who was foaming at the mouth. I couldn't help noticing that we were cruising at 37,000 feet above the Arabian Sea at the time.

-Z


User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3998 posts, RR: 34
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7438 times:

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 4):
think they had more than one. I remember they carried their old BOAC registrations for some time before they were changed to A4O-.

GF operated 5 VC10 in early 1970s, until replaced by the Tristar. They all went to the RAF as tankers


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7171 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
But I think TZ can get them. Wasn't TZ looking for 5-6 GE equipped B-767-300ERs to begin replacing the L-1011-500s for their military charters?

Yes, but they wanted RR powered 763's. Since they couldn't find them (duh) the L1011's went for D-checks.

Quoting Zamaria (Reply 20):
Anyone know anything about the age and history of these aircraft?

Airfleets.net shows them being between 16 and 13 years old (from oldest to youngest). However, they only show 4 aircraft. Don't know about the other 5.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6882 posts, RR: 63
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7080 times:

Quoting Zamaria (Reply 20):
Anyone know anything about the age and history of these aircraft?

Built 1989 (3), 1992 (2), 1993 (2) and 1994 (2). Boeing lists that Gulf have bought 20 (!) 767-300ERs over the years.


User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 6686 times:

Quoting GF-A330 (Thread starter):
Our idea is to change the type of aircraft to two within ten years from four now," he said after a board meeting in Muscat, which will become the airline's other hub in March.

I was wondering, A-340 and A-330 or Airbus and Boeing.

Quoting Behramjee (Reply 9):
it is worth mentioning that the GF CEO of the late 1980s who ordered from Boeing these 9 B 767-300ERs had signed a clause which said that if GF were to ever phase out its B 767s then it could be only sold back to Boeing and no other airline

I wonder if there was a time clause or something to that effect. I can't really see Boeing's interest 12 to 17 years later, especially if GF decided to go Airbus. Boeing would have these 767s and no new order. Of course, now that is a good deal because of the desire for 763 aircraft. Is there a link or something to the effect?

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 19):
But I think TZ can get them. Wasn't TZ looking for 5-6 GE equipped B-767-300ERs to begin replacing the L-1011-500s for their military charters?

Great, but this is going to be years down the road, not even deciding what will replace them. By that time, WN will have TZ flying to Europe and beyond with 787s. I liked it anyway.

M


26 Horus : Indeed. This rumour has been circulating since 2000. Hopefully this time they actually act on it. Did you perhaps confuse them with Egyptair who orde
27 Aleksandar : Did someone mentioned that GF will order some 73G to replace A320s?
28 Post contains links Horus : Here is that topic: Gulf Air: 19x 737 NGs? (by GF-A330 Dec 17 2005 in Civil Aviation) Horus
29 Post contains images Aleksandar : I knew I've read about it somewhere. Thanks
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