Quickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4864 times:
Njintern From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 58 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4782 times:
I agree with Quickmover. Because WN is the price leader in most of the large beyond-DEN markets (LAS, LAX, SEA, PDX) F9 and UA have become very greedy in the local market.
I just priced MCI-DEN RT on 3/15-3/22 at $266.60 and MCI-LAX RT (same dates) at $228.20. Do the math, it's a 49 cent yield in the local market.
If F9 wants to be considered a low-cost/low-fare airline, they need to act like one.
IADCRJ From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 332 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4724 times:
I dont know if service has commenced yet, but I knew that WN has intentions of doing a DEN - SLC route shortly after their startup in DEN.
Jmy007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 591 posts, RR: 2 Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4724 times:
Quoting Njintern (Reply 3): If F9 wants to be considered a low-cost/low-fare airline, they need to act like one.
Come on, they have to make money somewhere. F9 and UA drop prices to match on head to head routes with WN. They'll pick up that money elsewhere.
If $266 is too much, drive the 8 hours down I-70.
Cookies are the Gateway pastry. They lead to Éclairs and Bear Claws.
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 10 Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4713 times:
Currently, DEN is served by WN from OAK, SAN, LAS, PHX, SLC, MDW, & BWI, yes?
I would think one of the L.A. airports would be next (what a boon for ONT if they were the first!), along with maybe MCI or STL.
Quote: I just priced MCI-DEN RT on 3/15-3/22 at $266.60 and MCI-LAX RT (same dates) at $228.20.
Quote: If F9 wants to be considered a low-cost/low-fare airline, they need to act like one.
No carrier has the lowest fare every time. Many times I have travelled WN has been the lowest, many times the middle of the road, and a few times it has been the highest. It all depends on the demand for particular seats on a particular day. One example of fares doesn't tell the whole story - we need more data.
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FCYTravis From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 1191 posts, RR: 6 Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4684 times:
OAK and SAN are 1x Saturday-only flights, and SLC and BWI have yet to start up. They'll begin March 4.
If I had to guess, I'd bet on a service expansion to Oakland and LAX.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
Njintern From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 58 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4676 times:
My comment about acting like a low fare airline was specific to the fact that the MCI-DEN-LAX fare (1395 miles) was cheaper than the local fare (533 miles). This reminds me of DL selling MCO-CVG-DAY substantially cheaper than MCO-CVG. Not typical LCC behavior, especially considering 160% differnce in stage.
Quickmover, do you agree?
Can someone find an example today of a successful low-cost airline gouging the local to make up for lower fares in the beyond? If so, I'll gladly retract my statement.
Quickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4482 times:
Agree 100%.
I'm surprised you found DEN-MCI for $266. I've spent as much as $350 before. UA and F9 have certainly learned to coexist. Too well.
DEN-LAS and PHX were not bargains before WN showed up. Granted you can find mid week discounts, but I've seen DEN-LAS as high as $400 and DEN-PHX as high as $350.
Iowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4099 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4367 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW FORUM MODERATOR
My list of next possible cities from DEN (in no particular order):
Hockey55dude From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 213 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4308 times:
Quoting Iowaman (Reply 10): My list of next possible cities from DEN (in no particular order):
Jacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 61 Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4308 times:
Quoting Iowaman (Reply 10): LAX
OAK
MCI
STL
HOU
BNA (maybe)
SAN (maybe)
I would add SJC also as SJC is a big WN hub (they are either 1st or 2nd in terms of flights at SJC after AA/AA-eagle)...
it would be interesting to see how it does as F9 serves this route already...
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22724 posts, RR: 88 Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 4271 times:
Quoting Quickmover (Reply 9): DEN-LAS and PHX were not bargains before WN showed up. Granted you can find mid week discounts, but I've seen DEN-LAS as high as $400 and DEN-PHX as high as $350.
You might be just a little bit fair here, Quickmover. Just a tad.
Yes, there were - still are - fares at those prices, and probably some higher. But they were not the lowest or the average.
Faremeasure is not the most reliable resource in the world, but it is pretty good, based on the DOT figures, and pre-dates Southwest's arrival in DEN.
The average round trip fare DEN/LAS was $238. Since we know there were higher fares and that's an average, there must have been lower fares, too.
The average round trip fare DEN/PHX was $255.
And there were times when they were much, much lower. When Ted started, I remember the $59 round trips DEN/LAS, DEN/PHX and DEN/RNO.
Even DEN/ONT.
Of course, no one was making money on those fares.
Usairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3099 posts, RR: 8 Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4217 times:
WN doesn't really need that 3rd gate to expand. I mean in PHL at one point WN was just about averaging 9-10 flts per gate each day. Now PHL is a pretty congested airport and if they can handle that in PHL i would assume they can get pretty close to that in DEN.
So what do they have 2 gates now and 12 flts a day with a few more coming in a month or two, they should really be able to get close to 17-20 flts with only 2 gates. That still leaves some room for expansion, while it would have to be a city with only 1 or 2 a day as opposed to 4 or 5 they still could handle some expansion. With 3 gates they should easily be able to get up to 25-28 flts a day.
Quickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4173 times:
Quoting Usairways85 (Reply 15): WN doesn't really need that 3rd gate to expand. I mean in PHL at one point WN was just about averaging 9-10 flts per gate each day. Now PHL is a pretty congested airport and if they can handle that in PHL i would assume they can get pretty close to that in DEN.
So what do they have 2 gates now and 12 flts a day with a few more coming in a month or two, they should really be able to get close to 17-20 flts with only 2 gates. That still leaves some room for expansion, while it would have to be a city with only 1 or 2 a day as opposed to 4 or 5 they still could handle some expansion. With 3 gates they should easily be able to get up to 25-28 flts a day.
They now have the two former USAir gates and the former Airtran gate. USAir moved to the west end of the concourse using the former America west gates. Airtran moved to the east end of the concourse to what was once one of the two TWA gates (on the south side).
What is interesting here is that the other TWA gate (east end north side) is also the former ATA gate--now unused as ATA pulled out of DEN. If WN wanted it, they could probably get it and give them 4 gates in very close proximity.
MrSTL From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 468 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4116 times:
STL has nonstop service to DEN on F9, AA, and UA average roundtrip fare is $318.00 according to faremeasure.com. WN could seriously bring down the cost of this route if they decide to fly it. It is 770 miles or 20.6 cents per mile avg per RT. I just paid $450 three months ago on AA for my trip to Denver on a non holiday two weeks notice fare.
MrSTL From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 468 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 4054 times:
No kidding!! I checked everyone and they were all about the same fare although I think I paid a little more to stay on AA. Got to keep my FF status up, although more and more I am asking myself if it is really worth it.
777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2402 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3989 times:
I vote for DEN-Tehran!
Seriously, I'm guessing it'll target one of Frontier or Ted/UA's routes: don't know if these already exist but BWI, PHX, SEA, PDX, LAS and/or SAN come to mind.
Joeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 873 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3921 times:
My list would be in order:
Market O/D Passengers
LAX 2,231 Speaks for itself
MCI 788 O/D traffic will rise significantly because of short distance
MCO 860 WN really like Orlando
OMA 402 O/D traffic will rise significantly because of short distance
STL 674 Good Connections/ descent traffic
ABQ 379 O/D traffic will rise significantly because of short distance
FLL 684 ?????
TPA 558 Just a hunch
BNA 336 Kinda a stretch...Good Connections though
Wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5532 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3901 times:
I would bet on expanding DEN-OAK going to daily before SJC. OAK is far larger WN station than SJC, especially with the introduction of ATA service to Hawaii.
Mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22724 posts, RR: 88 Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3887 times:
Quoting Quickmover (Reply 9): I'm surprised you found DEN-MCI for $266. I've spent as much as $350 before. UA and F9 have certainly learned to coexist. Too well.
Um - I just checked MCI-DEN RT on 3/15-3/22 and I got a total (including all taxes, etc) of $163.
That means a base fare to the airline of $138 round trip. This is gouging?
That fare was available on the two previous days as well. I didn't bother checking anymore than that.
cheers
mariner
aeternum nauta
25 NateDAL: How about DAL? Ok...in all seriousness, LAX and HOU are their biggest destinations not yet served from DEN.
26 Iowaman: Not daily. Yes, however there largest station, LAS, doesn't even have n/s to MCO on WN. I'm surprised F9 hasn't thrived more in RNO, I believe they a
27 Njintern: Nope, that's not gouging, that's pricing rationally. A LCC 21 day advance purchase fare for this LOCAL market should be somewhere $79 and $99. Thanks
28 Alphascan: There is no one in the Pricing Dept. of any carrier figuring yields per mile on flights in order to set their fares. Think of airline pricing as if s
29 ORDagent: F9 is extremely cost competative. What probably happened was that the lower fare bucket on F9 was already sold out as they have a very loyal pax base
30 Mariner: "...to get thinks back in order..." So then you must think that things were "out of order" - that the price you found was an aberration. But you read
31 SJCRRPAX: I think he meant WN's operation is large relative to other carriers at SJC. I think about every other departure from SJC is WN, at least everytime I
32 ScottB: Didn't you know that no one wants to fly Southwest to or from Denver because they have an inferior product and charge higher prices? Southwest taking
33 FCYTravis: How do you know that "for sure?" SJC is slightly smaller than OAK, passenger-wise. But WN's operation at OAK is *huge* and growing, with 133 daily dep
34 TxAgKuwait: You probably won't believe me, but the next batch of cities to get nonstop WN service from Denver ABQ (3) MCI (3) OMA (3) STL (2) TUS (2) That's 13 fl
35 MrSTL: I believe you, where are the Omaha flights going?
36 Wedgetail737: WN serves more destinations nonstop through OAK than SJC. Plus, ATA's decision to fly from OAK to OGG, HNL and ITO gives WN more connection opportunit
37 Quickmover: How soon? I hope you are right, but can they squeeze 35 flights out of 3 gates?
38 Vegasplanes: No LAX ? I would think WN would launch service to the LA Basin in some way shape or form from DEN N/S. Maybe they are waiting for two more gates so t
39 Laxintl: SWA does not have an inch of room to expand at LAX. The station flight activity has remained steady at just over 100 daily flights the last 5 years.
40 CentPIT: I think PHL as well. I think PIT has a chance though. PHL will probably be first.
41 Iowaman: Now is this an educated guess, or is this something you are very sure about? PHL would seem much more likely than PIT IMO. We all know that DEN-DAL i
42 Sjcrrpax: I guess we never know the future for sure, but I go by the fact that San Jose is the 10th largest city in the U.S. and Oakland is not. SJC passenger
43 Joeljack: How do you know this information? How soon? 1 month, 3 months 1 year etc? Is this a guess or is this a "trust you, I'm 100% for sure kind of thing?"
44 Jacobin777: I sometimes wonder that too..until I sit in an emergency exit row with tons of room for a very good fare...
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