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British Airways' Pilots Prepare For Long Strike  
User currently offlineConcorde001 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 1230 posts, RR: 3
Posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7352 times:

Oh no, not again!

Quote:
Pilots at British Airways (BA) are being advised by their union to borrow £25,000 each to prepare for a long strike over their pension scheme. The British Airlines Pilots Association (Balpa) says it is preparing for an all out strike of its 2,822 members at BA

Full BBC News article can be found here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4697766.stm

If 2006 turns out to be another year (4th in a row) of industrial unrest at BA, I think their reputation will suffer very badly.

Let's hope a deal is reach!

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineApuneger From Belgium, joined Sep 2000, 3032 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7189 times:

hm....not good...I already got caught in one of the strikes (back in July 2003), and this July I'm flying them BRU-LHR-YVR and YYZ-LHR-BRU. Oh my...I hope BA management can reach an agreement with the unions or at least find some sort of solution to make sure the pilots don't go on strike.

Greets,
Ivan



Ivan Coninx - Brussels Aviation Photography
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7167 times:

Balpa at it again - the pensions discussions havent even started. Is BALPA run by Ian Paisley or something? God, those guys deserve a labotomy. Wonder what the unionhuggers are saying over on PPRUNE!

(oh, and now that the news is out that pilots should borrow 25K, the banks will load the repayments, due to fear of unpayment - Balpa are so stupid)



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineZoheb From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7154 times:

Ooooh, chance for BA Executive club members to get another round of free BA miles.

Last year most got around 100,000 BA miles, with the Gate Gourmet strike.


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7088 times:

Quoting Zoheb (Reply 3):
Last year most got around 100,000 BA miles, with the Gate Gourmet strike.

I got 50,000 but would prefer a strong airline, positioned for growth, which will drive more security, rather than an entrenched shrivveling carrier that will happen if they cant get the pensions bill down.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineTrekster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6931 times:

And this will do what exactly. The pension deficitae is there, and the company are doing all they can.

Do the pilots really expect to come back to a job if they all strike, mucking up all our pax plans. They wont wanna fly with us, and will go elsewhere, leaving no one to fly, meaning they will get laid off. There is not much the company can do, but there trying there dam hardest. The bleedin union aint helping. Hence i aint a memeber of one. Ii dont like them


User currently offlineTheSorcerer From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 1048 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6923 times:

I'm flying to DUS on the 24th of march, hope this isn't going to be affected.
Dominic



ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6900 times:

This wont go to a strike - Hopefully the pilots are intelligent enough to ignore Balpa.

The one crazy union in BA is BASSA - the cabin crew union - boy are they short of a few screws.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineBA747400 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 428 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6851 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 4):
I got 50,000

Were you stranded because of the strike?

I hope this situation is resolved quickly.....this could truly hurt their reputation: 2 strikes in less than a year?!


User currently offlineFlyingHippo From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 680 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6795 times:

I don't understand why every union members think they deserve pensions when they retire... have they ever heard of a 401K plan (or something similar in UK), or saving????

I don't know how much a captain gets paid at BA, however, I don't think it will be worse than a lot of regular Joe Schmos who make a lot less than a BA captain who has been making a pretty good salary for the past 15-20 years, and WITHOUT a pension!!

My job offers a pension plan, its so little that I won't feel the difference if they take it away. When I retire, I'm going to depend on my 401K savings and my nest egg I've put away. Why can't union members learn how to do that?!?!?!


User currently offlineHS748 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6751 times:

Don't over-react. This is just a negotiating ploy by BALPA. Can you seriously see pilots borrowing £25,000 to fund a strike? And let's face it, BA pilots are so well paid they wouldn't even need to borrow the money!

User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (8 years 5 months 3 weeks ago) and read 6729 times:

Quoting Trekster (Reply 5):
the company are doing all they can

So how come BA Can Afford To Pay . com?



I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
User currently offlineMhodgson From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2002, 5047 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6588 times:

Quoting Rick767 (Reply 11):
So how come BA Can Afford To Pay . com?

Do you seriously think that BA are wanting a strike? If they could pay, they would do - they know how much damage the August strikes have done, they know how precarious their business would be if it happened again, especially as this time it would be pilots striking, which would probably affect LHR and LGW, and cannot be stopped in the short term simply by offering food vouchers. The management are not stupid enough to risk their business; a 3rd year of strikes has probably affected them enough without a 4th year of strikes affecting their entire London operartion.



No trees were harmed by this message. However, several million electrons were terribly inconvenienced
User currently offlineSteve6666 From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6552 times:

Read the latest balance sheet, and BA cannot obviously afford to pay. BA has equity of about £1.7bn, and long term interest bearing debt of about £3.8bn, so in other words it's about 200% geared.

Bear in mind that a heavily geared commercial property company whose operating assets generally appreciate can afford gearing around 100% and that BA's assets will almost exclusively be depreciating, the markets probably would not be able to stomach BA filling a £1.8bn pension deficit in one go, from cash.

Bear also in mind that, in 9 months to 31 December, the business has generated £400m of cash, and is facing a significant medium term exceptional cost from the T5 move which will have to be funded from cash.

As more macroeconomic, general points, when one side exclusively feels the pain, contracts get renegotiated. Equally, final salary schemes are pretty much over for various reasons, not least because of a particularly stupid new accounting rule which not only forces companies to put the deficit on their balance sheets, but is overly pessimistic in calculating the deficit.



eu nasci ha dez mil anos atras, e nao tem nada nesse mundo que eu nao saiba demais
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7081 posts, RR: 57
Reply 14, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6543 times:

Quoting BA747400 (Reply 8):
Were you stranded because of the strike?

Yes - However, BA looked after me really well.

Quoting Rick767 (Reply 11):
So how come BA Can Afford To Pay . com?

The logic beyond this presentation doesnt follow. Are they suggesting that BA dont pay their debts... Are they really blaming the american government. Are they really suggesting that its everyone elses problem? Typical Union rubbish



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6341 times:

The joys of Unions...... we will get you more pay, but we may also get you fired..... and screw the customers.

User currently offlineSATX From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2840 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6319 times:

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 9):
I don't understand why every union members think they deserve pensions when they retire... have they ever heard of a 401K plan (or something similar in UK), or saving????

You talk as though 401k's existed from the beginning of time. They're a fairly recent event from what I understand. What would you tell a person who chose to work for a given company because of the pension plan?



Open Season on Consumer Protections is Just Around the Corner...
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2072 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6251 times:

Scaremongering by the Union. Unfortunately private pensions in the UK aren't ironclad, and changes in UK accounting rules means deficits in Pension Funds must be included as part of a company's debt. UK Financial press talking generally that some major UK firms could go to the wall over their pension fund deficits (I'm not suggesting BA is one) and with one of the largest Pension Fund deficits BA need to come up with a solution. BA needs to fund a major longhaul fleet renewal in next couple of years and the financing to do this won't be helped if a major Pensions black hole exists, unresolved. BALPA will have to realise they can't preserve the status quo, and pointing a gun at the head of BA Management isn't really constructive. Nobody likes the thought of working longer, or making higher contributions, but it's surely better to work with Management to come up with a long term solution to a long term problem.


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineGritzngravee From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5520 times:

If one of the guys from the UK could help me on Union rules about coffers that would be helpful. Here in the states each union member pays dues to the coffer so when a potential strike situatiuons occurs they can cover their losses when out of work. This was a strategy used by the TWA(transport workers authority) in NYC due to the MTA(metro transit authorities) lies of not having money when they had billion dollar surpluses but wanted to cut pensions and benefits. So when the TWA told the MTA they would walk out and they did, federal law prohibited a strike and it led to substantial fines of over a million. Not to worry they had enough money in the coffer to cover the fines and any expenses the striking workers needed. Unions can be a pain in the ass or they can actually work(helping and protecting the employees who aren't protected by their corporate structure). It is becoming too commonplace in corporate society, the distancing of the front office execs from the work force. It is like they are working against each other. One wants all of the profits and the others want the pension and benefits. Who deserves what?!

User currently offlineRichardPrice From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5274 times:

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 9):
I don't understand why every union members think they deserve pensions when they retire... have they ever heard of a 401K plan (or something similar in UK), or saving????

A pension in the UK takes one of three forms:

1. A company linked pension, where both you and the company makes payments into your pension fund, usually the company pays a lot more than you (3x or more). This is an employee benefit and if the company offers it its part of the contract. A pension deficit is created in two ways - the market doesnt produce as much interest as people expected, or either of the two parties fail to pay in the expected amount of money (or both can happen).

2. A private pension where your contributions are made directly to a pension fund of your choosing, and the company pays nothing toward it. Funds are deducted from your Gross salary and tax isnt paid.

3. The government pension fund, where your NI earnings are put into a government fund and you get paid on reaching the national retirement age. If you worked during your lifetime, you get a government provided pension, the amount depends on how much NI you pay (you have to make a certain number of years NI payments to qualify for a full value pension). Your government provided pension compliments your private pension, you get both.

A 401(k) is pretty much very similiar to 1 and 2. They are pensions with a different name (savings funds for retirement). The way in which they differ is that traditionally a pension used to be termed as a 'defined benefit' fund, eg you got an income based on your final salary, or the amount defined when the pension was taken out. A 401(k) is a 'defined contribution' fund, where the final amount isnt guaranteed but the input is fixed at a value per payment.


User currently offlineGritzngravee From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5100 times:

Ask the former Enron, Adelphia and World Com employees about 401K's and see what they tell you!!!!! "DIVERSIFY YOUR PORTFOLIO" is what they would tell you. I know everyone wants to drink the kool aid and believe in everything your company leaders are telling you, but make your own decisions based upon what YOU & YOUR FAMILY will need after you stop working. If you are depending on a 401K and a 401K ONLY to provide you with enough income while retired you definitely have a trust fund or other types of assets available to you. Because, if you are making big time contributions to your 401K and your company has to come up with cash to pay off creditors you BEST BELIEVE your 401K is history!!!!!!!!!!!! My fathers pensions went from 7K to $890 a month due to piss poor executive management of his company, while the CEO, COO and CFO walked away with over a million each, life isn't fair the majoority of the time so protect yourself and loved ones early so you will not suffer later!!!!!!!!!

User currently offline727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 793 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4725 times:

Quoting FlyingHippo (Reply 9):
I don't understand why every union members think they deserve pensions when they retire... have they ever heard of a 401K plan (or something similar in UK), or saving????

Why do Union Members think they deserve pensions? I don't know, maybe a little reason might be because they negotiated for them. They gave up something in a previous contract, perhaps many years ago, to get that pension plan. What's more, management agreed to pay out on this pension plan. A pension plan is worth millions to each and every employee. If you steal that from them by not paying up on it (UA, US, NW, DL) or you try to negotiate it away, you have to give them something of equal value to replace it. That's how negotiating works. There is nothing that the airlines could replace a pension with and they know it. If BA is anything like their American counterparts, they'll take the pensions, get pay cuts, and then give themselves all bonuses up top and call it "Inline with standard Industry Practices."

To all of you Junior Airline CEO wannabees, I'll admit some of the unions have gone a bit overboard. I would agree that rampers should not be pulling in $90k to work 3 flights a day. However, if Execuative management wants to be making money that is "Inline with standard Industry Practices," then they need to be showing profits that are "Inline with Standard Industry Practices." It's not going to happen though. Airlines are not good money makers. They never have been. If an airline is making big profits, be scared. Somebody is taking the money. When times are good an airline need to be putting the profits back into the company through capital improvements such as getting better finance rates on a/c, updating their product, or the most important buying fuel hedges. This simply hasn't been happening thus the current state of the industry.



727forever
User currently offlineJsposaune From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 291 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4717 times:

As a curious traveler, (and a non-rev one at that) what is the time line for this possible strike? I'm lookng to fly BA in early March...any issues by then??


There are no stupid questions....only stupid people!!!
User currently offlineBoeingfan From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 385 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4532 times:

...yeah right and a million pound sterling check in the mail

User currently offlinePawsleykat From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1978 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (8 years 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4438 times:

Quoting Concorde001 (Thread starter):
Oh no, not again!

Exactly my words. F@*K, do BA intend to aggravate everyone of their passengers every FLAMING year?

I really am getting tired of BA striking!

Quoting Zoheb (Reply 3):
Last year most got around 100,000 BA miles, with the Gate Gourmet strike.

It's always the same, If rich people don't get their own way, Pay Them Off!
 banghead   confused   hissyfit 



First Class passengers are my favourites. They can't get any further forward without an ATPL.
25 Paul : IMHO BA are taking the michael slightly. They are a compay with a stable quartely turnover and consequently net income. Why should the pilots take the
26 VV701 : The TUC guidelines to their members (i.e. the British Unions like BALPA) is that Unions should try to negotiate so that employers contributions to com
27 Scotron11 : Well, let us hope this is just "blustering" on their part. Maybe BA should raise the retirement age for pilots from 55 to 60 to ease the current pensi
28 Post contains images Wrighbrothers : Well, put it this way, a BA Captain gets paid about double that of a Senior Manager. I highly doubt the pilots will strike, because there won't be a
29 WhiteHatter : Amazing how all the seventeen year old economists and union experts weigh in on the subject. Strike action and bluster is a regular tactic. BALPA is m
30 N1120A : Um, BA is damn near the most profitable airline in the world. Their cries of poverty SHOULD be falling on deaf ears though it appears very few are ac
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