KAUSpilot From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1958 posts, RR: 34 Reply 1, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4814 times:
A pilot strike for any extended period of time would mean the end of the airline, pure and simple. That is true for Delta and Northwest. I'd say any strike longer than a week or so could be the nail in the coffin.
It's highly unlikely that a strike will occur, since both sides know it could spell the end. Then again, the pilots have already given up a lot.....at what point will management stop asking for more paycuts? Not until everyone is eligible for food stamps would be my guess.
Ilikeyyc From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1373 posts, RR: 21 Reply 2, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4792 times:
Did I miss something? Have the pilots already taken a strike vote?
Like I have said elsewhere, I do not believe the pilots will strike and that they are just doing this to scare management and keep their members happy.
Likewise, DL said that a strike will be the end of Delta to scare all those who are happy to have a job into not supporting a strike. I won't believe anything from either side until it actually happens.
DeltaGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4776 times:
From an objective point (we're all objective here, right? ), we all know any strike, even a few days, is the end of shop for DL. Management knows this, yet still wants to test the pilots to see exactly how far they can get them to putting them on food stamps.
Lono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1327 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4705 times:
They are aware of the issue... but I don't understand why they think DL has the money left to make them happy.... I will miss DL.... sad indeed... who has the best poker face.. they (pilots) think there is more money for them... this will be interesting for the rest of the "legacies"... part of the new paradigm that has been discussed.... Just imagine the outfall... Wow...!!
Flywithjohn From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 122 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4689 times:
If they strike it won't last long because other unions will pressure them to resume the fact the jobs are gone will force a resume and managers will give in quickly and quietly.
On a lighter note I almost busted a gut with the no more tears signature
Panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4728 posts, RR: 26 Reply 10, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 4489 times:
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 9): Not if DL management cancels the pilots contract. If the contract is voided, a strike could happen immediately.
March 1 is the deadline for management and the pilots to come to a deal. If not, I believe the arbitrator will have 45 days from that point on to make a decision whether to throw out the contract or not. If the decision then is to throw out the contract, then the pilots are free to strike.
Malaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3244 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4464 times:
Quoting Flywithjohn (Reply 6): If they strike it won't last long because other unions will pressure them to resume the fact the jobs are gone will force a resume and managers will give in quickly and quietly.
On a lighter note I almost busted a gut with the no more tears signature
There are no other Unions at DL to pressure them...
the Pilots are the only Union at Delta
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
Leelaw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 4417 times:
Delta Offers Pilots A Payment Plan If Pensions Are Cut
"Delta Air Lines' newest contract offer to its pilots includes a $300 million payment if it terminates their pension plan, according to people familiar with the matter, a move that has intensified fears among pilots that Delta could become the latest airline to foist underfunded pension obligations onto the federal government....
...The current contract proposal Delta has before the Air Line Pilots Association includes a provision that would kick in if Delta turned over the obligations to the federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. The offer would give the union a $300 million interest-bearing note in the event that the airline terminates the plan, said the people familiar with the matter.
...John Culp, an Air Line Pilots Association spokesman, said any payment that Delta pilots would get in return for terminating their pension plan would be a fraction of what the airline would save by escaping its obligations. Some higher-paid employees whose pension plans are turned over to the PBGC typically lose a portion of their benefits..."
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7877 posts, RR: 8 Reply 14, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4371 times:
I worked for a company that went under - a retailer. As soon as they were placed in receivership customers stopped paying on their accounts. In the airline business customers will look to other airlines. The retailer liquidated, but the way.
With that experience I think it's time that the pilots look at what they will be left with and not what they "give up". If DL liquidates they give up their full paycheck and all of their benefits.
I also believe that DL's management needs to give up a lot in terms of pay, perks and, or course, THEIR pension. They need to demonstrate that they are taking a hit that is at least as hard as the pilots are getting.
You only have to have gone through the experience once to know that keeping the jobs going is more important that standing by their principles.
Phollingsworth From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 825 posts, RR: 6 Reply 15, posted (7 years 10 months 2 weeks ago) and read 4292 times:
Quoting Leelaw (Reply 13): ...John Culp, an Air Line Pilots Association spokesman, said any payment that Delta pilots would get in return for terminating their pension plan would be a fraction of what the airline would save by escaping its obligations. Some higher-paid employees whose pension plans are turned over to the PBGC typically lose a portion of their benefits..."
Unless the pilots hold out and somehow convince the arbitrator to not void there contract the pension plan as they know it is going away. It behooves the pilots to negotiate a settlement here. The reason for this is that if the pilots strike DL will Ch 7 and the pension plan will terminate. The secured creditors will get the money first any everyone else will loose. If they negotiate a setlement they will still loose the pension plan (it will go to the PBGC) and they will get whatever the PBGC can afford to pay, plus whatever the settlement offer they agree to.
My guess is that the pilots will loose the arbitration, so they should negotiate as far as possible and accept whatever deal they get at the end, it has the highest possible return for them. IF DL goes under many of there pilots will have a near $0 NPV on their certificates.
Ptharris From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 282 posts, RR: 5 Reply 16, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4214 times:
Wow... greed greed greed. It's all you see anymore. Is there an airline where everyone (including management) that works for the greater good? Or is that gone the way of the wagon? Too bad, I agree that if the pilots threw their hands up, so will Delta all together. It'd be a sad day to see the Widget die.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
Ca2ohHP From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 945 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4133 times:
Quoting Jumpseat70 (Reply 8): You haven't even thought of the ramifications of that comment. Nor do I think you think at all. Flame back at me all you want. I don't care anymore than you do about your convictions or philosophy's.
Wow is that sarcasm or a cry for help? Either way, if he hates Delta why do you care...he's entitled to his opinion. Most people here hate US Airways and Mesa anyways. I personally don't care for uptight a.netters that get all defensive when someone states an opinion.
DeltaMD88 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3947 times:
I just booked a flight out of ROA for the 16th through 19th of March. I would really hate to see Delta die, I have flown them since 1992 (after Eastern and PanAm went under) and have loved them ever since. This got me wondering...would other Skyteam airlines provide service for Delta's ticketed passengers if the airline were to fold, either before or during a trip? For example would NW service DL's ROA passengers assuming they don't go under themselves?
Db373 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 228 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3418 times:
Quoting DeltaMD88 (Reply 18): This got me wondering...would other Skyteam airlines provide service for Delta's ticketed passengers if the airline were to fold, either before or during a trip? For example would NW service DL's ROA passengers assuming they don't go under themselves?
By law they would have too. The problem, however, is that because DL carries the second largest amount of people in the U.S. (behind American), it would be really hard for the other airlines to rebook all the people right away. I would not want to be stuck somewhere on a Delta ticket if they were to go under. There's no telling when you'd get home.
On a side note, I would think all the airlines would be jumping at the chance to help DL passengers out, because I believe Delta also has the 2nd largest FF membership in the country. I don't think they'll go the way of Chapter 7, but IMO, if they do, I think CO would profit the most, not NW. DL and CO are very similar in route structure, and the two of them have arguably the best customer service records. That coupled with the fact that CO and DL are both in Skyteam, and you can clearly see why I think this.
as a former DL employee... I have to say since the DL pilot group is unionized... The pilot group has always had their way with DL... And much animosity has formed over the years.... Since the DL ground and the F/A group placed their faith in DL (bad idea yes?)... Now the line has been drawn by the DL pilot union and the rest will be history...(EA?)... Sorry to say but I think DL is done...
Ptharris From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 282 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (7 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3238 times:
So, what are the deadlines anyhow? If this were to happen, what would be the timeline, as an example? I mean, would they come to a complete stand still or would they struggle along and then just fall apart? I'm curious how this would all shake down. I do hope they can somehow work things out. I know that there are some serious die hard DL people that say nothing is going to happen, yet some other serious die hard DL employees and fans are starting to think the end may be coming. Has Delta come out and said anything about all this, or is this just rumor as it unfolds?
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
25 Panamair: March 1 is the deadline for ALPA and DL to come to a mutually acceptable solution on their own. If they don't, at that time, the arbitration panel wi
26 Isitsafenow: I would guess the pilots at Northwest would have the type of formula. Their voting ends Feb 28th. Now tack on apx 45 days plus the 30 days cooling of
27 Alphaomega: I'm all for the pilots fighting to keep their pay from getting cut even more, but threatening to strike, especially when they announce that if the con
28 Malaysia: In this time and age for Commercial Aviation, I feel JOB SECURITY is what everyone should look for, not payrates.
29 FlyDeltaJets: Well, I for one live in SLC, and although Id hate to see the airport 2/3 empty, I'll be relieved DL is gone.[/quote] This is defiantly coming form a
30 DeltaGuy: Bullllllllllshit. 50% of anything is alot, and that's what the pilots have taken essentially. Salary wise, they've taken the BIGGEST paycut, both in
31 H53Epilot: Not so sure. There are thousands of qualified pilots who would love to slide into any seat at DAL and be more than happy to fly for proposed managemen
32 ChiGB1973: NW is coming up on the end of their cooling off period, right? The strike vote is scheduled to be completed at about the time the cooling off period
33 Panamair: OK, maybe I'm dense but here's one thing I don't understand. Both DL and the pilots agreed to submit the case to the arbitrators if they cannot come t
34 FlyPNS1: No. The pilots would be accepting the arbitrators decision by allowing DL to throw out a legally-binding contract. The pilots don't believe that DL h
35 Supa7E7: What a bizarre notion. Of course the F/As would not possibly strike, because they are non-union. What we are witnessing is the harm done by even mere
36 N917ME: Sorry, but a strike at NW or DL simply put, will not happen. Both sides remember what a strike did to Eastern. Besides which is better less money or n
37 FlyPNS1: Many of the pilots are in fact owners of DL as they are shareholders. Granted DL's shares aren't worth much these days. And in reality, the pilots ar
38 DeltaGuy: If you'd ever want to make a qualified statement, do it! How about, telling the company not to keep pumping money out of the labor every time they ma
39 Bucky707: simple, management will keep asking for pay cuts as long as they think they could get more. I don't blame them, I'd do the same thing in their shoes.
40 Ptharris: I totally agree with you and this statement. However, there's a lot of unions that look the other way to this theory. Greed sometimes clouds what's m
41 CruzinAltitude: My only question is, is there a Hearse big enough to take Delta to the Grave Yard? Bottom line, they'll need it if a strike happens!
42 Lightsaber: It will be a madhouse trying to rebook if any of the large majors were to go under in today's high load factor environment. I was thinking what would
43 767-332ER: Who's RJ's are you selling? ASA is a separate company from Delta, so luckily we'd be fine. Comair's would probably return to GECAS and then again, AS
44 Airlinelover: This is 2006, not 1926. You can't plan on being with the same employer for your entire workign life anymore. It's just not valid. That goes for aviat
45 GeorgiaAME: The pilots have one of two choices. No job. Or a lower paying job. Status quo is not an option on their table. The unions (in general) haven't done th
46 RedFlyer: No disrespect intended; however, I don't believe DL has the market cornered on quality pilots. As for all the other arguments that generally imply DL