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What Was CP Air?  
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3007 posts, RR: 27
Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5673 times:

I was looking through a 1974 issue of National Geographic today, and saw an ad for CP Air? Judging by the ad itself, I realized they were a Canadian airline. I've never heard of them before, so would like to ask some more information. What were their routes? Did they fly exclusively domestic service? Has anyone had any experience with them?

Aeroflot777

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6372 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5651 times:

The Air division of CP Rail...Canada's private coast-to-coast railroad. I think they became Canadian Airlines for a while, and then got swallowed up by AC.


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7776 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5646 times:

I am sure you'll get a lot of feedback on the history of CP, certainly many folks have very fond memories about CP. And are very mad at how CP generally got the short end of the stick by the Canadian gov't.

Long and short of it was there were at one time 2 major carriers in Canada. Air Canada and CP Air, later called Canadian Airlines. AC was/is based out east with its HQ in Montreal, and CP was based out west in Calgary IIRC. At various times the government in Ottawa poured favor on one carrier at the expense of the other, I suppose many argue that Air Canada was more favored over time.

Basically CP Air was stronger in western Canada and held most of the Canada-Asia market. And AC was stronger in the east with most of the Canada-Europe market. As the Canadian market, and transborder market, was deregulated CP Air was not able to compete as effectively as AC was. By 2000 CP was merged into Air Canada.


http://www.airliners.net/articles/read.main?id=7



Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5610 times:
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CP started out as Canadian Pacific Airlines, and I'm pretty sure flew DH Comets in the 50s for a brief time. HQ was in Vancouver (I think). Pacific Western Airlines in Calgary merged with Wardair, and then eventually that company merged with CP Air to become Canadian Airlines International. AC finally sucked them up making us a one-airline country until West Jet et al came along.

The old CP Air operated some good sized aircract -- 747, DC-10, 767, 727 -- in its hey day.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3624 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5510 times:

Quoting Arrow (Reply 3):
The old CP Air operated some good sized aircract -- 747, DC-10, 767, 727 -- in its hey day.

With one of the best liveries ever!


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Photo © Gerard Helmer




I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineAseem From India, joined Feb 2005, 2046 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5493 times:

I remember seeing their offices in DEL (late 80s/early 90s), but I presume they never operated there.
rgds
VT-ASJ



ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5493 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 2):
And are very mad at how CP generally got the short end of the stick by the Canadian gov't.

Long and short of it was there were at one time 2 major carriers in Canada. Air Canada and CP Air, later called Canadian Airlines. AC was/is based out east with its HQ in Montreal, and CP was based out west in Calgary IIRC. At various times the government in Ottawa poured favor on one carrier at the expense of the other, I suppose many argue that Air Canada was more favored over time.

Basically CP Air was stronger in western Canada and held most of the Canada-Asia market. And AC was stronger in the east with most of the Canada-Europe market. As the Canadian market, and transborder market, was deregulated CP Air was not able to compete as effectively as AC was. By 2000 CP was merged into Air Canada.

This is incorrect in several ways. CP Air was the airline division of Canadian Pacific, a Cdn multi-national. It was bought by PWA (a regional 737 carrier)..The MERGED carrier (under the management and ownership of PWA) was renamed Canadian (retaining the CP code).

CP Ltd sold CP Air to PWA in 1987. CP Air was solvent (although not very profitable) thru-out its existence. It was the larger PWA (after absorbing CP Air) which later came close to bankruptcy and was bought by AC.

Be careful in discussing CP Air and using the code CP. The 2 are NOT synonymous.

Cheers
Neil



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCapital146 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2003, 2125 posts, RR: 44
Reply 7, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5359 times:

I have very fond memories of seeing their beautiful DC-10-30's at MAN as a child. It was a livery you didn't forget in a hurry!  Smile


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Like a fine wine, one gets better with age.
User currently offlineWhiteHatter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5341 times:

Quoting Capital146 (Reply 7):
I have very fond memories of seeing their beautiful DC-10-30's at MAN as a child

don't forget the DC-8 as well! Those looked brilliant in CP colours. MAN got all three longhaul types when CP was operating there.

Pacific Western was another regular with their 707 fleet doing both freight and passenger flights.


User currently offlineOB1783P From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5330 times:

CP Air was a late branch of a Railroad empire, as was said before, and there was also an important shipping line as well. The Canadian Pacific liners (ships) were all called Princess. Princess of this, Princess of that. Lots of immigrant traffic in the early 20th century.

As far as airplanes are concerned, in the 50s, they had a subdued livery with a nice goose, and then that CRAZY orange, red and polished metal at an angle, which made 747, DC-8s and DC-10s look bigger, scarier and sometimes dirtier than any other livery.



I've flown thousands of miles and I can tell you it's a lot safer than crossing the street!
User currently offlineWukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5326 times:

Quoting KELPkid (Reply 1):
The Air division of CP Rail

This is totally an aside, but I noticed in the pix of the thread that the logo on the planes is the same as that of the locomotives in the movie "Silver Streak" with Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder... which would make sense, since I heard somewhere that although the movie was supposed to be taking place on a trans-US trip, much of it was filmed in Canada.

Were they both under the same parent company, and if so, which venture did they get into first, the rail or the air? (Rail would make sense, but...)

I should probably just go google this, but I think it's an interesting side note to the conversation.



We can agree to disagree.
User currently offlinePetertenthije From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 3364 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5274 times:

Quoting OB1783P (Reply 9):
and there was also an important shipping line as well

For what it is worth, CPShips is still around. Nowadays part of the Hapag Lloyd family, which itself is part of the TUI group (HapagFLY, ArkeFLY, ThomsonFLY etc).

http://www.cpships.com/



Attamottamotta!
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4930 posts, RR: 43
Reply 12, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5260 times:

Quoting Wukka (Reply 10):
This is totally an aside, but I noticed in the pix of the thread that the logo on the planes is the same as that of the locomotives in the movie "Silver Streak" with Richard Pryor and Gene Wilder... which would make sense, since I heard somewhere that although the movie was supposed to be taking place on a trans-US trip, much of it was filmed in Canada.

Funny, you should mention that. I noticed the same thing when the movie was first released. The locomotives were all CP Rail. The exterior shots were CP Rail cars with a different logo placed over the CP logo.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineWukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 5231 times:

Quoting LongHauler (Reply 12):
Funny, you should mention that. I noticed the same thing when the movie was first released. The locomotives were all CP Rail. The exterior shots were CP Rail cars with a different logo placed over the CP logo.

Thanks for verifying my non-craziness (at least in this topic)  Smile Didn't the pax cars have some double-arrow thing that was similar to the > in the CP livery, but not quite the "standard" logo?

I'm going to go have to Netflix that movie just out of curiosity now!

Nonetheless, it's great to see that CP logo on a plane, although now defunct... planes and trains, both marvels.



We can agree to disagree.
User currently offlineStirling From Italy, joined Jun 2004, 3943 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5199 times:

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 8):
Pacific Western was another regular with their 707 fleet doing both freight and passenger flights

On a charter basis from 1969 to 1980. They never obtained scheduled status for anything beyond North America...Seattle was PWA's only international destination.
The Pacific Western 707 fleet was made up of 2 ex-QANTAS -138B variants and 2 -300 Freight haulers.

Remember the -138B was a mod of the -100, shortened fuselage, longer range for the special requirements of QANTAS.

Pacific Western bought these ships with the route to Grand Cayman in mind...but used them other places as well. (UK/Europe)



Delete this User
User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5165 times:

Quoting Arrow (Reply 3):
The old CP Air operated some good sized aircract -- 747, DC-10, 767, 727 -- in its hey day

Before PWA purchase CP Air, CP Air didn't operate 767s just the 747s and DC-10 along with 727s and DC-8 and 737s.


User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5161 times:

Long time ago when I came to Canada as an immigrant I flew from HKG to YVR on CP Air 747-200 in early 70s then I flew on AC, didn't know what a/c it was.

User currently offlineAirCanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5132 times:

This is my first time placing a picture in here so please bare with me, I hope I understand how to do it. Found the picture of 737 in CP Air colour

[img]http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0006377/M/[img]


User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5118 times:

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 15):
Before PWA purchase CP Air, CP Air didn't operate 767s just the 747s and DC-10 along with 727s and DC-8 and 737s.

True, but CP Air did order 4 762's. The order was later cancelled in exchange for 732/733 aircraft.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3007 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5095 times:

Thank you all for the information. Now I have some sort of idea on who they were! Thanks a lot!

Aeroflot777


User currently offlineB52murph From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5048 times:

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 2):
Long and short of it was there were at one time 2 major carriers in Canada. Air Canada and CP Air, later called Canadian Airlines. AC was/is based out east with its HQ in Montreal, and CP was based out west in Calgary IIRC. At various times the government in Ottawa poured favor on one carrier at the expense of the other, I suppose many argue that Air Canada was more favored over time.

This raises another question: What about Wardair? They had several large types in the inventory, incl. 742s and 707-300s, IIRC. Did they get merged into AC as well?


User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3624 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5048 times:

Quoting Wukka (Reply 13):
Didn't the pax cars have some double-arrow thing that was similar to the > in the CP livery, but not quite the "standard" logo?

First, just FYI, CP Rail still exists: http://www8.cpr.ca/cms/English/default.htm

They're now just going by Canadian Pacific Railway (that's what "CP" stood for anyway). Their locomotives and cars still say "CP" on them, though, although the logo has been updated (I think it's just text now). They still have one passenger train, although it's a historical train, not like Silver Streak-era stuff (except for the locomotives): http://www8.cpr.ca/cms/English/RCP/default.htm

As for Silver Streak, yeah, that was all CP Rail equipment, with decals placed over the CP Rail wordmarks. The logos were basically left intact, though, which would never happen today. Supposedly the producers actually wanted to film in the United States but Amtrak was fearful of the image they'd get from the film. That's also why they went with that non-existent "Amroad" name for the carrier - it was supposed to be in the US, not Canada, so they couldn't just call it CP Rail. I guess if they'd managed to get Amtrak on board they would have just left it Amtrak in the film.

They were probably better off going with CP Rail, though, because Amtrak was in a sorry state of affairs at the time Silver Streak was shot.

One cool thing about that film is that there were basically no special effects shots. Everything you see at the end of that film was done full-sized, either with real equipment or full-size mockups (the train crashing through the station was a specially built locomotive nose on a forklift, but the engine in the station itself was a real engine, and the station was also real). There were no models used and most of the filming was done on location. The producers had to pay to repaint the locomotive they used because it was damaged during filming.

Anyway, that's probably enough off-topic info for ya...



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5045 times:

Quoting B52murph (Reply 20):
What about Wardair? They had several large types in the inventory, incl. 742s and 707-300s, IIRC. Did they get merged into AC as well?

WD was bought by Canadian in 1989.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5901 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5033 times:
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I missed the opportunity to fly CP Air back in 1986 during Expo '86. I ended up flying CX over CP because I wanted to fly on a 747. I had other opportunities to fly on CP but ended up flying to SEA than YVR. Damn!

User currently offlineCollegestud From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4984 times:

I flew CP on HKG-YVR-YYZ in 1987. Nice plane. I wish Canadian Airlines would stay a little longer. Its sad that Air Canada took over Canadian Airlines.  Sad

25 Post contains links and images Stirling : View Large View MediumPhoto © George A Wallace
26 Post contains images HanginOut : I have extremely fond memories of CP Air, as my family immigrated to Canada in 1974, flying from Hong Kong to Vancouver on CP Air to begin our new lif
27 AC773 : It wasn't just any double-arrow thing. The > in Canadi>n is there because Canada is of course bilingual (Not everyone speaks English and French, but
28 Arrow : Think it was Empress, not princess. I emigrated to Canada from the UK on the Empress of Scotland. Airplanes hadn't been invented yet.
29 Tom in NO : CPAir was the airline that Grant McConachie had such a hand in during its fledgling days. I've got a superb biography of him....."Bush Pilot With A Br
30 DYK : AC773, I agree with you on both counts. Canadian was one of my favorite airlines and Air Canada seems not care about Vancouver. Air Canada's focus is
31 AirCanada014 : Hello Stirling. Thanks for putting the picture up. What did I do wrong, did I miss something? I need to know from what I did so I can understand.
32 Post contains links and images Olympus69 : You are correct. CP's largest liners were Empresses. The first were used in Trans-Pacific service starting in !891. The CPR trans-continental railway
33 Post contains images KELPkid : Ahh, the famous (by railroad spotters) "Pacman" logo of CP
34 Post contains images Wukka : Thanks for that info! I always wondered about that on the "Canadi>n" livery, but now that you mention that, it makes perfect sense. What I was referr
35 ANother : VERY brief time! Their one and only crashed in Karachi on it's delivery flight. (It was destined to Sydney, where it was supposed to operate SYD-NAN-
36 Post contains links and images AirCanada014 : Oh ok thank you. I guess when I look at HELP site i didn't scroll down further. Lets see if I can do it. View Large View MediumPhoto © George A
37 Post contains images LongHauler : Also more useless trivia: You are correct with respect to the > in Canadi>n. It satisfied both the Anglo and Franco Canadians/Canadiens. However ....
38 Sean377 : That is the preferred way to post pics of images from A.Net. However, you can display any image hosted on the internet using the [img] tags. But you
39 Petmbro : Didn't CP name their planes Empress of (city name)? I remember flying BOS-YYZ and I think our plane on the front had Empress, kinda like Pan Am with
40 Post contains links Wukka : Excellent! Thanks much for the info! It looks like they got rid of the square somewhere along the line, though, even on the rail side. http://www.rai
41 Post contains links ANother : It didn't change - but due to the other colours etc the square wasn't completely there on aircraft, trains and trucks (etc.) Have a look here (scroll
42 Semsem : CP stands for Canadian Pacific. I flew with them in the early late 1970s on a stretch DC-8 from Amsterdam to Montreal. They were a good airline. They
43 NA : CP Air livery was for sure one of the best ever. Even today it would look modern. That says a lot. When they transformed to become Canadian Airlines,
44 ANother : I think that happened one or two years earlier. I was still with them in 1985 (and they were bought out in '86) and I remember hearing of our first r
45 Smokescreen : Just some context for you non-Canadians, the Canadian Pacific Railroad was the first trans-con RR in Canada, and holds a place in our nation's history
46 Post contains links ANother : Courtesy of Wikipedia. The aircraft was broken up long ago, but while it was in service it had a plaque on the bulkhead noting this feat. I flew it a
47 Smokescreen : Nice! Put that in your pipe and smoke it, TU-144/Concorde!
48 Ckfred : CP was a nice airline. I flew it between YHZ and YYC. Unlike U.S. carriers, it had full audio and video on their 737-200s. Their "picnic lunches" were
49 Post contains links and images LongHauler : CP's B737-200's were unusual in that they flew a lot of transcon flights, YYZ-YVR, YYZ-YYC, YYZ-YEG, YUL-YYC, YUL-YVR, et al. I am sure some of the l
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