Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 4538 posts, RR: 60 Posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4820 times:
Yesterday I had a call from a friend saying an Adam Air 733 was missing and everyone was looking for it.
The disappearance happened on KI768 from Jakarta (CGK/WIII) to Makassar (UPG/WAAA). The alarm was raised when the aircraft had passed it's ETA by a significant margin. Sometime later in the day we received that the aircraft had landed in Tambolaka (WADT), a small airport some distance away and had almost low on fuel.
The above shows the route that it was supposed to take and the "assumed" direct line from ANY, the intersection between airway W45 and W52, to WADT.
The airline has officially blamed bad weather for causing the nav equipment to conc out but METARs and WX Sat imagery has shown this not to be true. The airline had also said that the aircraft had a comm failure and possibly a total electric failure. This is also under suspicion to be untrue as a Lion Air aircraft within the vicinity WAAA and W52 heard the Adam Air aircraft calling out to WAAZ_CTR (Ujung Radio) giving its position reports. The Lion Air pilot had said that if the position report was true, the aircraft wouldn't be where it landed, and also added that the radio call from the Adam Air aircraft was very faint, indicating that it was at some distance from the Lion Air aircraft. The Lion Air aircraft had also relayed the position report to the Adam Air aircraft.
There's suspicion that the aircraft was dispatched with a faulty IRS system (pilot was reported to request an aircraft change due to this but was rejected).
Tambolaka is 1850m and "very narrow" (<25m wide) and an apron barely enough to fit an F27 on it with no refuelling facility. Adam Air plans to send its 737-200s there for buddy-refuelling on the ground and take the pax to Makassar. But Tambolaka isn't certified for 737 operations and how they intend to do this "rescue" mission is questioned by pilots who are familiar with the area.
Now... what happened to monitoring the raw data???
Looks like a big oops for both Adam Air and the Directorate of Air Safety/DSKU (The Captain was a DSKU pilot and former DSKU Pilot License Superintendent (or a similar position)).
Under other aviation regulation authorities, would the "rescue ops" be legal?
Any speculations?
Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7029 posts, RR: 57 Reply 1, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4803 times:
In any country, they'd make the rescue ops legal. Even Britain's CAA, a notoriously strict authority, wouldn't just let a stray 737 worth $80m just rot at a small field somewhere, they'd authorise a one-off flight by (in this case) the 737-200 to go in with fuel and take the pax out. I'm sure the authorities will make sure it's handled in a responsible way.
Yes! Senator Obama. We are ready to believe again.
Gerry From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 241 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3940 times:
Mandala499,
Are we the only ones to take this seriously? I posted this elsewhere only to have it deleted because you had raised it here. That was fine, I accept that but the one response to my post was interesting. The only respondent suggested deletion of my post because "it (the incident) was no big deal". There were 145 pasesngers on board for heaven's sake. What would the reaction have been if this had occurred over the continental United States or the UK?
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 3907 posts, RR: 78 Reply 5, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3890 times:
This is again one hell of a fishy story and Adam Air has been doing its utmost to cover it up, although the news made it into Sunday's Jakarta Post. There is no doubt that money has been changing hands to hush up this incident. The airline is still sticking to its verion of a Weather Diversion, but that can't possibly be true since Makassar's Hasanudin International had perfectly normal operational conditions at the time of the incident. But, as said, Adam Air is, in true Indonesian style, sticking to its guns.
Adam Air and its overly eager management are quickly becoming the new Lion Air. Expansion has been massive lately and the people in charge seem to think that the sky is the limit, for sure after Qantas' Geoff Dixon honored them with a courtesy call the other day. (Another non-story, btw, the purported interest of QF in acquiring a KI stake, what a joke!)
Meanwhile, customer service standards, if ever there were any, have been dropping, and the airline's punctuality record, or lack thereof, makes for some pretty interesting reading. But what's most worrying is the increasing number of maintenance and safety related incidents, most of which never make it to the public domain, but which have been spiraling out of control.
I would hope that this latest massive breach of operational procedures provokes a thorough investigation on behalf of the Indonesian Government. Yet, given that this is Indonesia, I don't make myself any illusions about that. Adam Air is spelling disaster, but it will take for one of its flights to come down the non-conventional way before the Indonesian populace will open its eyes.
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 4538 posts, RR: 60 Reply 7, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3578 times:
Are we the only ones to take this seriously?
Seems likely... But not a serious incident? I don't think the insurance guys like jets straying 400NM from its destination without a good reason!
Anyone knows which ship this was?
I've been informed that it was PK-KKE, which I saw just the day before the incident in WAAA.
Sources inside Adam said that the co-pilot asked for an aircraft change due to an IRS problem but got rejected.
But what's most worrying is the increasing number of maintenance and safety related incidents, most of which never make it to the public domain, but which have been spiraling out of control.
Tell me about it. With Lion pilots are grumbling and campaigning to the management for better safety... and management is yielding, especially after the SOC crash. Now Adam? LOL... I know 2 PILOTS HAVE QUIT DUE TO SAFETY CONCERNS and I've been told there have been more and more going soon. Adam operates on one of, if not the lowest pay in the industry! ("Charts? What charts? Buy your own!" I've been told...)
Amongst the problems? WX Radar INOP on a few of their aircraft (have you seen the weather on W17 and W17N lately?) One pilot quit after the management decided that a missing rear portion of the leading edge slat is of "no concern".
Lion learnt the hard way with the Solo crash, Mandala with the Medan crash... Now does Adam have to go through a fatal accident before it wakes up about safety?
Btw, I've been told that Tambolaka is actually 1450m only!
But, as said, Adam Air is, in true Indonesian style, sticking to its guns.
Well, we know they haven't stuck to their plans of sending a 732 to evacuate the pax... they hired a Trigana ATR42 to do it yesterday! Of course, this never made it to the news...
Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 4538 posts, RR: 60 Reply 8, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3435 times:
The latest news is absolutely hilarious...
The Government has cited that Adam Air committed a gross violation by flying the aircraft out of the small airport. The action is viewed as a "Relocation of evidence aircraft involved in serious allegation of total navigation system failure" and therefore an obstruction to an effective investigation. Furthermore, Adam Air engineers have also fixed the IRS problem which could be translated as trying to wipe out the evidence. Furthermore, the government is asking on who gave the aircraft permission to fly prior to the arrival of the investigation team, and also raising its eyebrows because the aircraft was flown out by the director of operations (Capt. Salmar)...
Adam Air is now facing the possibility of an AOC revocation.
This is going to be bloody hilarious or some thick brown envelopes are going to fly into the Dept. of Transport ! LOL
Now I see why my colleagues in Adam calls the company the Orange Circus!
Mandala499
[Edited 2006-02-13 18:31:26]
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
StevenG From Netherlands, joined Oct 2005, 75 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3223 times:
When I look at the map and the route the aircraft has flown I wonder how weather conditions have been at the time. It must have been really clouded if you pass along SUB, Bali and Lombok without noticing anything. Or was it after sunset? And the compass?
Indeed very strange that this story doesn't make that many headlines. The landing of a NW DC-10 in BRU instead of FRA many years ago was in the news in Europe almost everywhere (not only the tabloids) and is still being recalled here occasionally.
Quoting Mandala499 (Reply 8): The Government has cited that Adam Air committed a gross violation by flying the aircraft out of the small airport. The action is viewed as a "Relocation of evidence aircraft involved in serious allegation of total navigation system failure" and therefore an obstruction to an effective investigation. Furthermore, Adam Air engineers have also fixed the IRS problem which could be translated as trying to wipe out the evidence. Furthermore, the government is asking on who gave the aircraft permission to fly prior to the arrival of the investigation team, and also raising its eyebrows because the aircraft was flown out by the director of operations (Capt. Salmar)...
LTBEWR From United States, joined Jan 2004, 9323 posts, RR: 7 Reply 10, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3193 times:
While the inital 'lost it's way' problem is bad enough, it became much worse when people and governments tried to cover it up. Here the creditability of the Govt. of Indonesia, the media there and the airlines involved were all badly hurt. Just let's be glad that there were no injuries and deaths involved here, but the next time such a situation were to occur, it could be deadly. I do hope the insurers outside of Indonesia put pressure on all parties to not let this happen again or they will face huge insurance premium increases.
Mandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 4538 posts, RR: 60 Reply 11, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3062 times:
LTBEWR,
The government isn't trying to over it up so far, but the airline tried to cover it up... and is still trying.
And the Media is having a frenzy but are frustrated in that no one seemed to want to talk...
Now the embarrassment to the government is how could the aircraft be not noticed by the ATC and military (literally controls the whole airspace on the southern half of Java).
Mandala499
When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 3907 posts, RR: 78 Reply 12, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2899 times:
This entire incident is likely difficult to comprehend without a thorough understanding of the prevalent Indonesian attitude of superiors toward their inferiors. Airline management, and indeed people in management at large, are known to treat lower ranking professionals with utmost contempt. As such, pilots are not expected to make their own decisions pertaining to safety and security, and if they do, they are likely to be severly rebuked and become the object of protracted ridicule or even suspicion. Personal initiative is inherently discouraged by Indonesian society.
As such, it is not difficult to grasp why the First Officer's request for a plane change was probably disdainfully rejected by the powers that be within Adam Air. First and farmost, a lowly First Officer is not expected to make such a request, thereby implicitly criticizing management's all mighty wisdom about what good for the company. Even if the Captain had made the request, I doubt very much that there would have been a positive follow up.
Add to that the cut throat competition in the Indonesian aviation sector. Adam Air can call itself a Boutique Airline as much as it wants, but it is basically serving the lower end segment of the market and is only able to survive by offering some of the industry's lowest fares. Planes are tightly scheduled during the limited operational hours of most Indonesian airports and it it highly unlikely that Adam Air had a spare plane available at the time of the incident. A cancellation and the inevitable costs pertaining to it is out of the question for a carrier like Adam Air.
No wonder then that the pilots didn't have any other option than to take of with a plane it seemingly less than desirable condition. Mind you, Adam Air are for sure not the only ones adopting such practices; the likes Lion Air and assorted low cost would be airlines have been known to force pilots to take of and land with shabby equipment or under weather conditions that were far from ideal. It's gone seriously wrong for Lion Air and Mandala on 2 seperate occasions. It has had the imminent potential of going seriously wrong on numerours other occasions, and, sadly, it will take yet another disaster for Adam Air and the Indonesian public to once open its eyes that safety in this industry is not something to be taken lightly.
HB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 3907 posts, RR: 78 Reply 15, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2715 times:
Quoting Melpax (Reply 13): Isn't this the airline QF was looking to buy a stake in?
Wishful thinking on the part of Adam Air. While Adam has been boasting all over the local and regional media about how Qantas is eager to take a stake of 50 percent and how they would not give them more than 20 percent, Qantas itself, i.e. the guys who are supposed to come up with the dosh, are not commenting on this story, let alone confirming that a deal like this is about to get the go ahead. The only thing that seems to be confirmed is that there have been talks between the two airlines about Qantas' unloading some of its older B734s.
Tsentsan From Singapore, joined Jan 2002, 2008 posts, RR: 13 Reply 17, posted (3 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2508 times:
I can only guess that another AdamAir aircraft didnt have another system working when they pushed back and started engines with the cargo door left open sometime ago in Singapore. Gosh, its getting bad.
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