TranStar From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 517 posts, RR: 0 Posted (6 years 1 hour ago) and read 3707 times:
On my way back from a visit to Australia in the Spring of 1987, my family flew a Qantas 747SP from Sydney-Brisbane-Cairns-Honolulu. We than transferred to a 747-200B for Honlulu-LAX, also on Qantas.
What was the reasoning for using the 747SP on such a route?
I thought at that time (pre-747-400 days) that Qantas used its SPs for the Sydney-LAX direct routing.
Was there a reason for using the SP on the routing my family took? Low capacity routing, did the non-stop SYD-LAX routing not operate every day?
Looking back I appreciate it as it was my only opportunity to fly the SP (although at the time I was disappointed, being only 11 years old, I look down upon the SP as being tiny in comparison with a full-200 sized aircraft).
Rongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (6 years 1 hour ago) and read 3678 times:
QF purchased the 747SP for a number of particular routes that had special needs that no other plane on the market in the early 80s could satisfy. The one I know about is WLG-SYD and MEL, due to the restrictions of the WLG runway and the then ETOPS rules about 2 engined operations across the Tasman.
The SP was a major economic disappointment, and anyway its target routes were soon supeceded by new twin jets. By 1987 the 767 was doing the WLG services (these days it's 737s). I believe (somebody else here will know a lot more than me) that QF then used the SPs on a number of routes where they would lose the least money until they could dispose of them.
QFs 747SPs were a success out of WLG in one sense. NZ had no suitable aircraft to provide Trans Tasman services out of the capital, and so had the embarrassment of having the only international services from WLG being operated by QF. This situation continued until NZ got their first 767s - I think in 1984 or 85.
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7285 posts, RR: 56 Reply 5, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3500 times:
Quoting TranStar (Reply 2): So did Qantas not use them on the SYD-LAX routing?
And the SP was wildly successful for QF, it not only gave them Wellington but indeed it flew the SYD-LAX route nonstop (don't know the schedule - I think 3x a week but could be more), which was why QF bought it, for more than a decade after it's introduction in the mid 70s.
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7285 posts, RR: 56 Reply 7, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3475 times:
Quoting Petmbro (Reply 6): Did United use their SPs from Pam Am pre 744 for LAX-SYD nonstop?
Yes. Interesting that Pan Am was still flogging it's SPs and 747-100s across the Pacific at the time UA bought them out. UA put the -400s on the route pretty fast, and used -100s and -200s (their own and ex-Pan Am machines) on the stopping flight PA811 / UA911, which went via Honolulu and Auckland. Indeed the UA 747-200 that lost passengers in flight when the cargo door opened after takeoff from HNL was full cos the nonstop -400 was overbooked and (as was regular procedure) the stopping flight took the overspill an hour later. That accident was Jan 89 and the -400 was already the mainstay of the route, with the SPs gone from the mission they were acquired for, and marking time on the EWR-LHR route until their retirement.
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25566 posts, RR: 87 Reply 8, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3403 times:
Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 7): Interesting that Pan Am was still flogging it's SPs and 747-100s across the Pacific at the time UA bought them out.
At the time UA took over the PA Pacific network, the 744 had not quite started flying yet. Interesting thing to note. The 744 was never the longest ranged commercial airliner in the world. The 747SP could fly a bit farther.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Antares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 45 Reply 9, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3398 times:
I recall flying on the QF SP out of Wellington, and between Sydney and San Francisco (prior to Qantas downgrading the route to a via/LAX flight on carriers like USAir which had bought PSA) and also a flight back from LAX to Sydney in the late 80s where it did cruise at 45,000 feet for at least the last few hours after the dawn prior to arrival.
I also remember being stunned at our departure from Sydney to San Fran using the west-east runway, but it was nearly empty so clearly it was operationally OK to do.
What I don't remember is when Air NZ gave up on its first jet flights out of Wellington to Australia. I'm pretty certain they had DC-8s on the route shortly after Lockheed Electras had done their bit, but memories can be faulty, and besides I usually have other things on my mind when flying rather than the flight itself
SQ_EK_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1373 posts, RR: 17 Reply 10, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3381 times:
I flew with a QF B747SP from MNL to SYD and back in the late 1990s - loved the aircraft, still one of my favorite airplanes to fly on. Really liked the smaller cabin...felt alot more cozy. Believe that the MNL route was replaced with a B767-300ER then eventually to a B747-300 on peak season travel.
Uadc8contrail From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1782 posts, RR: 13 Reply 11, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3360 times:
have family that regularly flew BNE-TPE on a QFsp.......
Nzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1428 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3205 times:
I flew on it from CHC-BNE but on a NZ revenue ticket ..Love that codesharing..The one i travelled on i belive in the 1st section of y had a bulkhead down the middle of the cabin so was like travelling on a single isle .. I could be wrong on that point as i was not feeling well during that journey .. But im pretty sure i remember that bulkhead as it surprised me ...
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25566 posts, RR: 87 Reply 16, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3121 times:
Quoting ZKNEA (Reply 14): As an aside, does anyone know of any airlines operating these on normal routes (i.e. exluding SV's use of them for the Saudi royal family)
Iran Air still runs them on scheduled routes.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
N1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 25566 posts, RR: 87 Reply 18, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3103 times:
TOY? You mean TYO, which is Tokyo's city code? More specifically DFW-NRT. Once AA got the MD-11, the planes moved to JFK-BRU until their leases ran out.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7285 posts, RR: 56 Reply 19, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2992 times:
Interesting that for a big chunk of the 90s, the only plane you could fly between Sydney and Taipei was the SP, whether you flew Qantas or Mandarin / China Air Lines. I guess it was a reasonably good match, a long flight (about 9 hours) with a less-than-a-regular-747 load. Way less in fact, when I did it on Mandarin in 1994 there was about 50 people on.
Antskip From Australia, joined Jan 2006, 880 posts, RR: 7 Reply 20, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2960 times:
Quoting Antares (Reply 9): I'm pretty certain they had DC-8s on the route shortly after Lockheed Electras had done their bit
When did NZ retire the DC-8? There was never a halt to NZ Tasman jets out of WLG once begun by the DC-8, was there? I lived in Roseneath in 1979 and listened and watched the DC-8's each day. Loved the plane; also the B747SP, which as a cabin experience felt like the later B767, not a jumbo. I guess the DC-8 went on in WLG until replaced by the B767? Was there ever a gap? I don't think the B737's were flying the Tasman until much later. I got quite a shock the first time I found myself on a B737 WLG-MEL. I thought I must be on the wrong plane.
Antares From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, RR: 45 Reply 21, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2883 times:
Antskip,
The DC-8s were great. I preferred them to the early 707s, although I liked both. However I can't remember when they were replaced, and there was a period, presumably very close to the introduction of the DC-8s when TEAL pre Air NZ also had Electras on trans Tasman routes. It was often a bit of a disappointment when you found yurself walking out to the prop-jet, and the trip took around 90 minutes longer to Christchurch from Sydney, where the Electra left very late, around 11 pm and arrived in NZ at dawn.
Also flew on the Pan Am SP trans Pac and remember it had a 16 place, four tables at four each, 'restaurant' in the bubble rather than service on a seat tray.
Gemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4704 posts, RR: 7 Reply 22, posted (5 years 12 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2869 times:
Quoting Antskip (Reply 20): When did NZ retire the DC-8? There was never a halt to NZ Tasman jets out of WLG once begun by the DC-8, was there? I lived in Roseneath in 1979 and listened and watched the DC-8's each day. Loved the plane; also the B747SP, which as a cabin experience felt like the later B767, not a jumbo. I guess the DC-8 went on in WLG until replaced by the B767? Was there ever a gap? I don't think the B737's were flying the Tasman until much later. I got quite a shock the first time I found myself on a B737 WLG-MEL. I thought I must be on the wrong plane.
This is purely from my memory of the time, so no guarentees but the way I remember it was that the TE DC-8s replaced both TE and QF L188 Electras, with QF code sharing and not usually operating their own metal to WLG. Then the QF B747SPs replaced the Dc-8s with NZ code sharing and not operating their own metal, then B767s replaced the SPs and each operated their own metal.
FlyboyOz From Australia, joined Nov 2000, 1697 posts, RR: 37 Reply 23, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2756 times:
When I was little, I was not so sure whether I had flown on China Airlines 747SP or/and B747-200 from TPE-LAX or/and TPE-HNL-LAX in 1985. My parents couldnt remember that. LOL! Can you please give me timetable of China Airlines in July/August 1985 or CI flight numbers. Thanks for your time
777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 10877 posts, RR: 25 Reply 24, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2687 times:
Quoting Rongotai (Reply 1): WLG services (these days it's 737s).
And now with bigger A320s and B738s
Quoting Antares (Reply 9): Air NZ gave up on its first jet flights out of Wellington to Australia. I'm pretty certain they had DC-8s on the route shortly after Lockheed Electras
Yes NZ operated Dc8s out of WLG. NZs first DC8s arrived in 1965. NZs last DC8 operations was as Cargo aircraft intill the 1980s and were retired before NZ B762s arrived. The first NZ B762 service was WLG-SYD
ETA Unknown From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 1921 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2626 times:
QF SP's primarily operated SYD-LAX, SYD-SFO, SYD-WLG, TSV-SIN in the 80's.
However, they flew to many parts of the QF system during service- flight deck crews were also rated on the 747-200, so aircraft substitutions (a frequent occurrence with QF in the 90's) weren't a problem.
The SP's at one time or another mainly flew:
SYD-LAX, SYD-SFO, SYD-HNL, SYD-CNS-HNL, SYD-PPT-LAX
SYD-BKK-FRA/FCO (sometimes showed up in LHR on rare visits)
SYD-PER-HRE
SYD-CGK-SIN, SYD-DPS, SYD-MNL, SYD-PEK, MEL-HKG, SYD-NGO, SYD-TPE (under Australia Asia banner)
SYD-WLG, SYD-AKL, SYD-NOU
Frequent SYD-MEL/BNE domestic sectors as well
Rongotai From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, RR: 2 Reply 26, posted (5 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2617 times:
Gemuser is correct about the WLG sequence. The NZ gap was 1981 to 1985. The shift to 737s was mainly because the business travellers wanted a daily service, and WLG didn't justify that with wide bodies. For a while in 2001 I was working in SYD every Monday departing WLG at 06.00 and getting back at 23.59.
In 1981-82 the NZ 'Freight 8' came into WLG once a week.
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 517 posts, 
From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 477 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7285 posts, 
From Australia, joined Jun 2004, 1402 posts, 
From Comoros, joined Jun 2001, 1921 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
